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Tell me why I shouldn't be scared of dying on the road ...

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Tell me why I shouldn't be scared of dying on the road ...

Old 08-06-19, 09:22 AM
  #176  
5teve
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Don't be too scared to ride if you want to. I think people tend to focus too much on the risk of cycling on public roads and downplay the risk of driving on them. They're just dangerous places, no matter how you choose to utilize them. So acknowledge the risk, accept it (if you wish) and get on with your life. Life is dangerous and then you die.
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Old 08-06-19, 09:29 AM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by gshastings
Odds of serious injury or death if hit by motor vehicle while you are in a motor vehicle, fairly low.
Odds of serious injury or death in the same situation while you are on a bicycle, MUCH higher.
Simple physics.
That might be, except that the motor vehicle occupant is far more likely to be in a vehicle going 60 or so mph when struck by another vehicle doing similar speed.

You're assuming "same situation" when there's a whole class of roads that bicyclists can't even go on. The speeds on restricted roads are, on average, much higher than bicyclists are likely ever to face. That complicates your physics issues big time.

Also, I suspect the odds of being killed in a single-vehicle accident are much higher for motor vehicles than bikes.
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Old 08-06-19, 09:34 AM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
I scroll past JFB's musings.
Sometimes I do too. (tldr) Other times I'll quickly find and read the "new" unquoted thoughts in the post to see what he's writing about. Either way, it's hardly difficult to deal with.

But, if he's quoted me, I'll almost always read the entire post, just because I'm curious to see where I fit in his virtual conversation.

I find a variety of posting styles makes things more interesting, even if I skip reading some of them.
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Old 08-06-19, 09:35 AM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by gshastings
Agreed. Even walking on the sidewalk, with your back to oncoming traffic, is stupid. Walk on the other side of the road, facing oncoming traffic (if sidewalks and other factors are conducive).
Without crunching numbers, I think this is likely terrible advice. If you have to cross the street to get to the sidewalk "going the other way", you must have at least negated any minuscule gain in safety you could gain by having a little more notice of the highly unlikely event of the car coming careening down the sidewalk.
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Old 08-06-19, 10:06 AM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by gregf83
I usually just skip Jim’s posts. I’m sure he means well but I find the jumbled quotes with multiple levels of emphasis distracting. I can’t imagine having a discussion in a coffee shop or bar where someone continuously repeats snippets of other conversations.
Ha, that would be hilarious to watch from afar. Everyone else in the group would be furious because one guy keeps citing that he once made a comment related to the current topic and then he would say that comment, after which everyone would just stare at the guy and continue the conversation. Good entertainment right there!

The effort to find all the quotes must be exhausting, especially since i dont see anyone appreciating it. To each their own, I guess.
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Old 08-06-19, 10:22 AM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Ha, that would be hilarious to watch from afar. Everyone else in the group would be furious because one guy keeps citing that he once made a comment related to the current topic and then he would say that comment, after which everyone would just stare at the guy and continue the conversation. Good entertainment right there!

The effort to find all the quotes must be exhausting, especially since i dont see anyone appreciating it. To each their own, I guess.
While I'm not a big fan of the quoting style, I am generally a Jim from Lower Salem fan. He knows more about bicycling in a major metropolitan area than most of the people criticizing him, and he's a lot better-natured than I am. I've learned quite a bit from Jim from East Waltham, and find it fun to discuss differences of opinions with him.
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Old 08-06-19, 10:33 AM
  #182  
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Regarding the OP's original post, yeah, it's a legit concern. We all justify it however we need to in order to keep doing what we enjoy. But we'd have to be lying at least subconsciously to say we don't worry about being hit by a motor vehicle if we've ever been hit before. I've been struck several times over the decades (Washington DC and surroundings in the 1970s was the worst). Most recently was last year and I'm still recovering.

But I still ride.

I worry, sure. But it's expressed more in how I ride, how alert I am, etc. I'm cautious. I choose my routes and times carefully.

Before every ride I go through a sort of checklist/mantra while suiting up. It's like the scene in Pulp Fiction with Jules and Vincent, before they visit the apartment to collect the briefcase for Marsellus. After BSing about foot massages and throwing people out windows, Jules says "Let's get into character."

So, find your character, write your script, rehearse, and you'll be better ready for the road. But be ready to improvise because some drivers aren't on the same page.
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Old 08-06-19, 10:56 AM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by gshastings
Agreed. Even walking on the sidewalk, with your back to oncoming traffic, is stupid. Walk on the other side of the road, facing oncoming traffic (if sidewalks and other factors are conducive).
Agree with what?

And ever visit a big city with one-way streets? Don't come to Philly. You wouldn't be able to walk many places if you would be too scared to walk with your back facing traffic. I guess it's a miracle that countless people in a city of about 1.5 million are not killed every day doing so. Or do you have another explanation for that fact?
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Old 08-06-19, 11:06 AM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
While I'm not a big fan of the quoting style, I am generally a Jim from Lower Salem fan. He knows more about bicycling in a major metropolitan area than most of the people criticizing him, and he's a lot better-natured than I am. I've learned quite a bit from Jim from East Waltham, and find it fun to discuss differences of opinions with him.
Right. Besides, anyone who wears two helmet mirrors, (one on each side) is a not only a safety fanatic but obviously proud to ignore the fashion rules. Both A-OK in my book!
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Old 08-06-19, 11:20 AM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Right. Besides, anyone who wears two helmet mirrors, (one on each side) is a not only a safety fanatic but obviously proud to ignore the fashion rules. Both A-OK in my book!
Riding where he does every day, I can see how that might make sense--absurd number of irregular intersections where you really do need to see in several directions at once.
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Old 08-06-19, 01:47 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
That might be, except that the motor vehicle occupant is far more likely to be in a vehicle going 60 or so mph when struck by another vehicle doing similar speed.

You're assuming "same situation" when there's a whole class of roads that bicyclists can't even go on. The speeds on restricted roads are, on average, much higher than bicyclists are likely ever to face. That complicates your physics issues big time.

Also, I suspect the odds of being killed in a single-vehicle accident are much higher for motor vehicles than bikes.
The subject of the thread is not single vehicle accidents. It's the risks of riding a bicycle on streets with motor vehicles. If you do not understand that your chances of serious injury, or death, are significantly greater if you are on a bicycle, versus being in another motor vehicle, then maybe you will be interested in a bridge I have for sale?
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Old 08-06-19, 02:39 PM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by gshastings
The subject of the thread is not single vehicle accidents. It's the risks of riding a bicycle on streets with motor vehicles. If you do not understand that your chances of serious injury, or death, are significantly greater if you are on a bicycle, versus being in another motor vehicle, then maybe you will be interested in a bridge I have for sale?
No. the title of the thread is "dying on the road", you can limit it to multi-vehicle if you want, but that's pretty artificial, and the only reason to do it is to make the car statistics look quite a bit better since about half of the motor vehicle fatalities are from single vehicle crashes.

On a per hour basis (as opposed to per mile) driving is more likely to result in death.

There's about 840 people killed bicycling in the U.S. There's millions of people in the U.S. bicycling every year. My odds of getting through another year are pretty damn good. It isn't as deadly as some make it out to be.
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Old 08-06-19, 02:49 PM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by gshastings
The subject of the thread is not single vehicle accidents. It's the risks of riding a bicycle on streets with motor vehicles. If you do not understand that your chances of serious injury, or death, are significantly greater if you are on a bicycle, versus being in another motor vehicle, then maybe you will be interested in a bridge I have for sale?
The risk is not in the riding of the bicycle. The risk is whether or not there are any cars on the road.

A bicycle on road without any cars has about a zero risk of dying in a collision.

Whereas it's quite common for a driver to have a self-collision and die (and take his passengers with him) with no other vehicle on the road.

However, it's common to convince the cyclist not to cycle because bad driving has become the acceptable norm and society doesn't really want to make any changes to it.
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Old 08-06-19, 02:57 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4
The risk is not in the riding of the bicycle. The risk is whether or not there are any cars on the road.

A bicycle on road without any cars has about a zero risk of dying in a collision.
Well, I almost did it once, but it involved an improperly graded manhole at the bottom of a San Francisco hill. Still come out with only minor injuries, but I was just damn lucky.
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Old 08-06-19, 03:14 PM
  #190  
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An improperly-graded manhole in San Francisco? A likely story. Thank goodness for the leather chaps.
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Old 08-06-19, 07:40 PM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Well, I almost did it once, but it involved an improperly graded manhole at the bottom of a San Francisco hill. Still come out with only minor injuries, but I was just damn lucky.
That's why I stated "about a zero risk" instead of outrightly stating "zero risk". It's rare but still possible.

Wheras dying in a self-collision in a car is much more common. Drivers smash into buildings and flip-over guard railings in the early morning of weekends when the streets are empty.

Last edited by Daniel4; 08-06-19 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 08-06-19, 08:29 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
On a per hour basis (as opposed to per mile) driving is more likely to result in death.
I think the opposite is true. See my post earlier about this.
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Old 08-06-19, 09:52 PM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
you quoted me, but i cant figure out why

what concern does my post bring up?
Originally Posted by pdlamb
i don't know why jim from boston quoted me either...

Sometimes i think this is either a bot or a shill with the purpose of generating memberships so real readers can ignore this poster. The long non sequiturs are a hassle to scroll past.
Originally Posted by indyfabz
i scroll past jfb's musings. If you are reading this, quoting me is a waste of time.
Originally Posted by gregf83
i usually just skip jim’s posts. I’m sure he means well but i find the jumbled quotes with multiple levels of emphasis distracting.

I can’t imagine having a discussion in a coffee shop or bar where someone continuously repeats snippets of other conversations.
Originally Posted by downhillmaster
this.

You have to assume that he is just projecting his own difficulties in following a thought/thread.
Originally Posted by kapusta
…If jfb wants to create imaginary, fabricated conversations, thats his business.

I just scroll past them, as i find them utterly incomprehensible.

But he should own them as his own imaginary conversation. Splicing to gather unrelated quotes from real posters to create the impression of a conversation that never actually happened is not cool, IMO.
How to respond?

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 08-07-19 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 08-06-19, 09:55 PM
  #194  
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ɅɅɅɅ (with apologies to the OP and rest of the thread)
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
… Everyone else in the group would be furious because one guy keeps citing that he once made a comment related to the current topic and then he would say that comment, after which everyone would just stare at the guy and continue the conversation. Good entertainment right there!

The effort to find all the quotes must be exhausting, especially since i dont see anyone appreciating it. To each their own, I guess.
Originally Posted by KraneXL
…JFB follows his own set of writing standards and rules. He is perfectly aware of the annoyance caused by his infinite mirror quotes.
Originally Posted by almosttrick
… a bit harsh. There's room here for everyone.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
…By nesting quote boxes, I indicate to the quoted subscriber(s) that I have
read the post(s), reflected on the content,
and extracted meaningful point(s) that I worked into a [contrived] quote chain.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
So with my experiences in cycling, and my frequent posting over the years, if I have replied on a recurrent topic, written to my satisfaction, I’ll just quote it.

A further challenge then becomes finding the post...
The quote chain allows me to quote a few subscribers [and/or myself] on one topic in one post…
Furthermore, I have documented to the reader that the topic at hand has been considered before, and the thread containing that quote, with the link, may be a source of further information.
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Sometimes I do too. (tldr) Other times I'll quickly find and read the "new" unquoted thoughts in the post to see what he's writing about. Either way, it's hardly difficult to deal with.

But, if he's quoted me, I'll almost always read the entire post, just because I'm curious to see where I fit in his virtual conversation.

I find a variety of posting styles makes things more interesting, even if I skip reading some of them.
Originally Posted by livedarklions
While I'm not a big fan of the quoting style, I am generally a Jim from Lower Salem fan. He knows more about bicycling in a major metropolitan area than most of the people criticizing him, and he's a lot better-natured than I am.

I've learned quite a bit from Jim from East Waltham, and find it fun to discuss differences of opinions with him
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Right. Besides, anyone who wears two helmet mirrors, (one on each side) is a not only a safety fanatic but obviously proud to ignore the fashion rules. Both A-OK in my book!
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Riding where he does every day, I can see how that might make sense--absurd number of irregular intersections where you really do need to see in several directions at once.
Kind of like my posts.

Thanks for those comments @AlmostTrick and @livedarklions. I have quoted you both in several of my 6700+ posts over the past 10 years.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
I have been an avid cyclist, as a lifestyle since about 1972...I happened serendipitously on Bike Forums in 2008, and it was frankly incredible to find a community that shared so many concerns I had kept to myself as a lone cyclist.

This enthusiasm has definitely increased my enjoyment of cycling. As far as improving it, what I have gotten directly from BF [include]…the opportunity to post and literally "journal" my thoughts and activities about cycling and lifestyle (even if nobody else reads them), but which I wouldn't write down otherwise...
Originally Posted by turbo1889
First of all you [not referring JfB] have no need to apologize for a lengthy post, least of all to me of all people.

Part of the reason I like forums as opposed to other forms of written communal internet forms is because I consider it the "long deep conversation format" rather than the quick short snappy sound bite like format like twitter and such.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
(from a now-closed thread) I think that the use of quote boxes, which I have not seen elsewhere is a remarkable way to graphically diagram a dialogue.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
...I like to make my posts self-explanatory, as if someone reading from the last post in a thread forward could understand the context of my post, so I include quotes expressing the entire “conversation.”

Often for reference I'll even include the title of the thread itself.
So in reciprocation, if no one responds to my posts as noted above, I’ll know they didn’t read it, in the manner of
Originally Posted by Jimmy Buffet
If the phone doesn't ring
You'll know that it's me.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
...BTW, I don’t consider posting (and reading) BikeForums a waste of time...

Actually, a waste of time for me is responding to these recurring wearisome replies about my posting style, instead of just ignoring my posts.
or disavow my post. FWIW.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 08-07-19 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 08-06-19, 11:31 PM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta
I think the opposite is true. See my post earlier about this.
Your earlier post just asserts that the opposite is true, but I also have looked into it, and the per mile figure favors cars because the fatal accidents are more likely to occur at high speed (highways), while the per hour figure favors bicyclists.

Regardless of how you figure it, though, 850 deaths or so per year spread out over the entire US is going to be a low probability figure unless there's a lot fewer cyclists than it would appear. Now if you have figures on where those deaths are clustered, then we might be able to talk about if there are places where it is high probability.
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Old 08-06-19, 11:34 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4
That's why I stated "about a zero risk" instead of outrightly stating "zero risk". It's rare but still possible.

Wheras dying in a self-collision in a car is much more common. Drivers smash into buildings and flip-over guard railings in the early morning of weekends when the streets are empty.
We're not disagreeing, I only gave my SF example because it was extreme, and I still came out with only minor injuries. That was one big damn hill.
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Old 08-07-19, 09:18 AM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
My brother lives in New Albany. He does weekend rides out through Westerville and the roads to the east of it. Many of them are lightly traveled by autos, and bicycles are a common part of the landscape out there. Read The Art of Cycling. Go enjoy those roads.
I had no idea that New Albany and Westerville were near the Louisissippi Coast. Seriously though, the writer might have a phobia he might want to deal with, maybe not.
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Old 08-07-19, 09:22 AM
  #198  
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Don't fear death. Fear pain.
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Old 08-07-19, 09:39 AM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by NoControl
Don't fear death. Fear pain.
But life is pain. So fear life?




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Old 08-07-19, 02:31 PM
  #200  
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I've had this dream a few times; not enough to call it a recurring dream but more than a few times. A huge truck comes form behind and I have no place to go. I always wake up just before I die form having my head crushed. I've had mirrors snapped off by cars passing too closely at high speeds. It's a crap shoot.
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