Most overthought bikefitting measurements?
#26
Non omnino gravis
I dunno where y'all are seeing people with their saddles too high. I don't think I've seen an obviously too-high saddle (complete with rocking hips) more than 3-4 times, total.
Now saddle obviously too low, with knees splayed out to the sides on every pedal stroke? Several times a day. Every day.
Now saddle obviously too low, with knees splayed out to the sides on every pedal stroke? Several times a day. Every day.
#27
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I dunno where y'all are seeing people with their saddles too high. I don't think I've seen an obviously too-high saddle (complete with rocking hips) more than 3-4 times, total.
Now saddle obviously too low, with knees splayed out to the sides on every pedal stroke? Several times a day. Every day.
Now saddle obviously too low, with knees splayed out to the sides on every pedal stroke? Several times a day. Every day.
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Sometimes they also "snap" one knee or the other through the pedal stroke, or just rock from side to side.
Often the guys I see with the splayed out legs are trying to pedal around a belly.
#29
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#30
Junior Member
Great thread, and timely for me. I have two road bikes - a 58cm 1978 Nishiki Superbe and a 56cm 2010 Specialized Tarmac. I am 5'10 tall with 33" inseam, but my ape index is very apish....+10cm. When I bought the Nishiki I didn't give sizing any consideration...just bought what the guy said was the right size. The Tarmac was fitted by the bike shop.
I prefer to ride the old Nishiki, maybe because I've owned it for 41 years, or because its steel, or because of my ape index? I'm thinking about frame size again because I'm kicking around the idea of picking up an old Marinoni and not sure if I should look for a 56 or 58cm?
What gets me overthinking this is my standover on the Nishiki is pretty much zero. Maybe a finger width with my cycle shoes on.
Reading all the fit articles and guides lands me on a 56cm, but the Tarmac always feels twitchy, and I'm right over the bars. The Nishiki feels right while on the bike...but that damn standover height....does make it more cumbersome for getting on and off.
I'm not experienced enough to say for sure but I suspect a vintage steel frame might be just right for me in a 56cm.
I prefer to ride the old Nishiki, maybe because I've owned it for 41 years, or because its steel, or because of my ape index? I'm thinking about frame size again because I'm kicking around the idea of picking up an old Marinoni and not sure if I should look for a 56 or 58cm?
What gets me overthinking this is my standover on the Nishiki is pretty much zero. Maybe a finger width with my cycle shoes on.
Reading all the fit articles and guides lands me on a 56cm, but the Tarmac always feels twitchy, and I'm right over the bars. The Nishiki feels right while on the bike...but that damn standover height....does make it more cumbersome for getting on and off.
I'm not experienced enough to say for sure but I suspect a vintage steel frame might be just right for me in a 56cm.
Last edited by abone; 11-14-19 at 09:01 PM.
#31
Virgo
I dunno what measurements everybody else overthinks but I’ve spent too much time on my saddle height. Seems for a long time I wasn’t using a good reference point. I now measure BB to where my sit bones hit the saddle. Setting it by feel never worked for me. Too cheap for a pro fit. I have some asymmetry in my legs which has been a challenge. Lemond’s formula works for me starting with a good reference point. 34 1/2” cycling inseam, saddle height 30 1/2”. I think saddle height might be a misnomer. I think you can have the same saddle “height” in different saddle positions, as you slide the saddle forward on the rails move the post up to compensate, it moving it back on the rails move the post down. I’m probably all wet but that’s where I’m at currently and applying that philosophy to 2
different bikes yields a similar overall feel despite differences in saddle type, bike geometry, handlebar size and position, and stem length between the two bikes. These bikes are commuters so I’m on one or
the other daily and sometimes several times a day.
different bikes yields a similar overall feel despite differences in saddle type, bike geometry, handlebar size and position, and stem length between the two bikes. These bikes are commuters so I’m on one or
the other daily and sometimes several times a day.
#32
Virgo
Also, I can tolerate most saddles as long as the saddle height/setback is good for me and the saddle isn’t too wide, every saddle that’s been comfortable for me has been no wider than about 5 1/2” or 140mm, pretty narrow. At 5’12” and 185lbs I’m not skinny but I’m narrow from the hips down. (I once heard someone describe it as “spider disease” - as one approaches middle age they find the belly getting plumper and the limbs getting skinnier).
I never consider standover. I ride 58cm or 23”
frames and always have clearance. I had minimal but sufficient clearance on some 25” frame bikes I used to have. I agree with others who have said if you can’t stand over the bike, the frame is too big. Also if your saddle is slammed, the frame is too big. I don’t know about others’ experiences but I can tell the difference in feel between two different size frames set up to fit the same. It’s a big reason I got rid of the 25” frames I had, they just didn’t feel right, even after adjusting stem and bars to match overall position of one of my 23” frame bikes. An expert could probably explain but an expert I am not. I am, however a daily bike commuter and I place a high value on a similar overall experience between the bikes that I’m commuting on. For me a 1/4” difference in saddle position feels like having to learn a new bike. I don’t want to have to think about how this bike feels different than that one. I just want to get to work every day comfortably and as efficiently as possible. It’s routine. Utilitarian. I don’t need every ride to be an adventure. I don’t like surprises on my way to work (like why does my knee hurt all of a sudden?).
In summary, I guess - in my own personal experience saddle position relative to crank has been the biggest single factor in overall comfort on AND off the bike. So although I have tended to overthink, it was only because I didn’t want to pay someone else to do the thinking for me.
When you do it every day for long periods of time, if something or the other is off very far with your fit, your body will inform you. So I’d say it also depends on how much and how often you ride whether or not any particular dimension of bike fit is at all worth thinking about very much. Seeing what other people look like while they’re riding their own bikes is a really poor indicator of what to expect from your own experience. When I see other people on bikes I’m focused on not hitting them, I don’t really understand how people find the time to think about how someone else’s bike seems to fit them, or how far their knees stick out, etc. Like who is actually looking at that.
I hope this info has been helpful to OP.
I never consider standover. I ride 58cm or 23”
frames and always have clearance. I had minimal but sufficient clearance on some 25” frame bikes I used to have. I agree with others who have said if you can’t stand over the bike, the frame is too big. Also if your saddle is slammed, the frame is too big. I don’t know about others’ experiences but I can tell the difference in feel between two different size frames set up to fit the same. It’s a big reason I got rid of the 25” frames I had, they just didn’t feel right, even after adjusting stem and bars to match overall position of one of my 23” frame bikes. An expert could probably explain but an expert I am not. I am, however a daily bike commuter and I place a high value on a similar overall experience between the bikes that I’m commuting on. For me a 1/4” difference in saddle position feels like having to learn a new bike. I don’t want to have to think about how this bike feels different than that one. I just want to get to work every day comfortably and as efficiently as possible. It’s routine. Utilitarian. I don’t need every ride to be an adventure. I don’t like surprises on my way to work (like why does my knee hurt all of a sudden?).
In summary, I guess - in my own personal experience saddle position relative to crank has been the biggest single factor in overall comfort on AND off the bike. So although I have tended to overthink, it was only because I didn’t want to pay someone else to do the thinking for me.
When you do it every day for long periods of time, if something or the other is off very far with your fit, your body will inform you. So I’d say it also depends on how much and how often you ride whether or not any particular dimension of bike fit is at all worth thinking about very much. Seeing what other people look like while they’re riding their own bikes is a really poor indicator of what to expect from your own experience. When I see other people on bikes I’m focused on not hitting them, I don’t really understand how people find the time to think about how someone else’s bike seems to fit them, or how far their knees stick out, etc. Like who is actually looking at that.
I hope this info has been helpful to OP.
Last edited by Phamilton; 11-03-19 at 05:59 PM.
#33
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I guess it's fit related, but I'd advocate for more rec riders to run aero drop bars.
Why? Hand positions and comfort. That big flat top feels awesome climbing with hands on the bar tops.
Also, it gives you an extra hoods position with less reach and one with more reach (depending on how much reach you choose to run).
You can buy them these days plenty wide also, so no worries there.
Just give it a shot and you might be amazed.
Why? Hand positions and comfort. That big flat top feels awesome climbing with hands on the bar tops.
Also, it gives you an extra hoods position with less reach and one with more reach (depending on how much reach you choose to run).
You can buy them these days plenty wide also, so no worries there.
Just give it a shot and you might be amazed.
#34
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I'm not sure any measurement is over-thought as being wrong can cause all kinds of pain, lol. If my saddle height is off even a cm, one of my knees hurts. It's taken a really long time to get the precise setting and scribe the post. Handlebar width is another that mostly you can ignore but, if you're like me, with narrow shoulders, it is important. I've been trimming my bars slowly to find the right spot. Saddle tilt isn't a big deal to me; either it's too up or it is not, doesn't seem to require precision. Fore-aft is the same, either it's good or not but there's wiggle room for error. Reach is the same; I can tolerate a 10mm error but it does feel better when really correct. Now as to saddle....that's critical and what fits your bum is not going to be perfect for others. I tried so hard to love a Brooks saddle but it just didn't love my butt. Now I've got Fizik saddles and I absolutely love them, but I've read posters here who hate them, lol. So I'd say in order of importance:
1. saddle
2. seat height
3. handlebar width
4. reach
5. fore/aft
6. crank length
But that's just my priorities when I get a new bike. Standover height is a non-issue as I ride step through.
1. saddle
2. seat height
3. handlebar width
4. reach
5. fore/aft
6. crank length
But that's just my priorities when I get a new bike. Standover height is a non-issue as I ride step through.
#35
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Most overthought: standover. It's just not relevant when actually out and about on the bike... just put one foot on a pedal.
Most underthought: saddle angle. If your saddle is above the bars (i.e. long legs!), tipping it down slightly below level can make such a huge difference to comfort.
Most underthought: saddle angle. If your saddle is above the bars (i.e. long legs!), tipping it down slightly below level can make such a huge difference to comfort.
#36
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Oh and another underthought item, for mountain bikes: brake lever angle. Tip them down at 45deg. So often I see them parallel to the ground. Tilting down means your wrist stays straight, and it's way more comfortable to cover the brakes.