BoozyMcliverRot

This is particular to the Lemond Zurich I recently picked up. I was researching the frame and from what I have found is that in some eras all the 853 Lemond frames were identical and just had different components in other eras they were different in geometry. I have also found that dependent on make and year they were only partially 853.

Something I've noticed while researching is that not all 853 decals are the same. While some decals state they are butted main tubes and others will include butted stays.

My question is what if it doesn't state anything other than 853? Is my whole frame 853 or just the main tubes? Double butted or triple? Is it up to the builder to decide what decal to use?
How do I know what tubes are what and how the are manipulated?
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This is the decal on my frame.

wsteve464

Have you seen this

"Reynolds have two specific variations in 853 a) ProTeam: the thinnest wall tubes made for road bikes and b) DZB: for Double Zone butted tubes, which are particularly suitable for ATB and 29er frames....."


https://www.reynoldstechnology.biz/m...s/steel/s-853/

guy153

I think it's up to the builder. When I bought some 631 main tubes and 525 stays they included a "631 Main Tubes" sticker so I stuck that on. But a big manufacturer is going to have a whole box of various stickers.

Most likely the front triangle is all 853 on your bike but the rear not. Right now the only 631/853 stays in the catalogue are sort of gravel/MTB type ones. The sweet pencil thin road bike ones are 525 (or maybe 725 if you want, not sure).

I don't see that much point in the heat treated tubes even for the main triangle but the rear often needs a bit of adjustment for final alignment after welding and maybe needs dimples for tyre clearance. It's probably better to use a regular CrMo tube (like 525) for anything likely to need a bit of manipulation.

A bigger differentiator on the rear triangle is how the tubes are shaped. The Columbus ones look like they start with a narrow diameter quite thick wall tube and somehow splurge it out. So you end up quite a thick wall at the narrow end where you're attaching the dropouts. Reynolds achieve a more constant thickness and you have a much thinner walled-tube to attach to the dropout. They're also thinner-walled throughout.

Nessism

I don't know specifically about Reynolds but a number of tubeset stays are made from a different material than the main tubes. The important thing is not the material, it's the physical characteristics like size and shape. For example, Dedacciai Zero main tubes are heat treated to a minimum of 165 ksi but the stays are 65 ksi. I don't think there is much of any advantage of using super high strength steel in stays since a lower strength metal is strong enough for the job and the physical size of the stays is the defining feature, not the material. The exception to this may be some super thin stays (which are uncommon.)

Andrew R Stewart 

To keep a perspective we need to understand that the decal is a marketing thing. For years Columbus used a decal only saying some sort of Columbus in some tube(s) was in the frame. Reynolds had many different decals that got mixed and matched to frames during the various high production periods. Asian bike brands (especially at the lower end) were famous for miss leading the consumer wit what the tubes really were (many 4130 claims only applied to the tube the decal was on). Many frames and their forks are made in different factories and only mated during the assembly before shipping off the boxed bike. Many small builders began to not even decal their frames with a tube brand as they understood that it's the blend, the geometry and the rider's fit that makes a good riding bike. Some tube "sets" are not offered with all the tubes of the same version, yet the decal is there in the box.

I've always taken tubing decals with a certain amount of "salt". One trusts the maker/brand (whatever a brand label means these days in the out sourcing of today's world) to have suitable tubing that results in a ride that the decal suggests should be expected. If this isn't acceptable then one needs to make their own frame and, thus, really know from what tube brand(s) it's of. Andy

mstateglfr 

dzb tubing is for gravel bikes, mtb, at, etc.
its basically tubing that will allow the down tube to not neenot external gusset while still passing some Euro resting standards.
Consider it beefy and absurdly strong.

There were some lemond bikes made with 853 and some with 853pro too, for what its worth.

As for if the bike is all 853, I would doubt it, but really it won't matter much since a .8 or .6 tube with the same diameter will weigh the same regardless of if its 853, 631, or generic cromo.
My 853 main tube gravel bike uses generic cromo stays. The stays are heavily manipulated(bent) and that possible with basic cromo. Example of when itd better to have 'lesser' steel.

Andrew R Stewart 

A good couple of examples of tubing decals not saying the full picture is with Rey 753 and True Temper OX Plat. These are usually only indicative of the main frame tubes, or the TT and DT only. Many builders don't want to have their cutting tools be worn from hardened tubes. Andy

nomadmax 

Never let whoever installed those BB cups touch your bike again. That's criminal.

BoozyMcliverRot

Thats how I got the cups when I bought the crank used. They spin smooth they just look like crap. They are on my short list to replace.