wolfchild

If you want to learn how to ride in traffic then go watch the movie "Premium Rush"...Mad riding skillz, I swear it made me into a better rider

spare_wheel

It's called the Idaho stop. Look it up.

yankeefan

I think you should go back and spend some time reading my post. Nowhere did I advocate blindly taking orders from "cycling experts", and I specifically said one should devise their own system through trial and error. You're literally attacking a straw man here.

Lanovran

Yeah...I know what the Idaho Stop is, and it's not the same as "always run the light and traffic signal." It allows a cyclist to treat a stop sign as a yield sign, and a red light as a stop sign (and even then, it's only fully legal in Idaho, and partially so in a few other places). As far as I can tell, it's about allowing cyclists a greater degree of leeway - especially along more lightly-trafficked routes - to allow for more efficiency and conservation of momentum. I'm afraid I honestly don't know how it's supposed to make anything safer for anyone, though, when the result of running red lights and such is invariably to make a cylist less predictable to motorists (not to mention more infuriating). The best things for safety on the road are a carefully chosen route, good visibility, and predictable riding behavior. In any case, however, to make a sweeping generalization to a newbie bike commuter that the safest thing to do is to "always run the light and traffic signal" is irresponsible at best, so I'm going to hope that it was merely a case of poor wording.

Meanwhile, what's up with all this morbid talk about "make it home alive" and "do anything to survive?" What kinds of hellish warzones are you people riding through to breed such fear and paranoia? How did a thread started to offer advice to a new commuter turn into a group rant about how cyclists are fragile little critters who must dart and dodge to avoid being trampled by blindly rampaging dinosaurs (a very poor analogy, by the way)? Whence came this bizarre "wisdom" going around which states that one should ignore both traffic laws and any instructors or experts one may encounter in favor of "trial-and-error?" I mean, I fully realize and respect the fact that there will always be an element of risk inherent to cycling, but cripes...what an insufferably obstinate bunch of pessimists we have around here...

Jim from Boston

Well said, and thanks for reading my post. At least I didn't receive the same reprimand as spare_wheel.

I fortunately ride away from the “hellish warzones” for which Boston is notorious, and traffic avoidance is a cornerstone of my commute. On the streets currently narrowed by massive snowbanks, I frequently pull into driveways to allow upcoming cars to pass.

Personally I suffered from the risk inherent to cycling when hit from behind while riding well-lit and far to the right myself on a wide, well-illuminated, low volume, low speed, residential suburban road. But don’t cry for me, Argentina; the Force to Ride is strong within me.

I-Like-To-Bike

Speaking of sweeping generalizations, nobody is providing a wisdom that implies cyclists should always ignore both traffic laws and instructors/experts in favor of "trial and error."

The "wisdom" is that the advice/guidance and "rules" offered by self appointed BF experts and so called "instructors" should be taken with a grain of salts and NOT as gospel applicable for every cycling environment and traffic situation.

And speaking of paranoia and bizarre wisdom, do you think cyclists should seek guidance from "Instructors" or "Experts" that still quote from the Good Book of John Forester?

spare_wheel

And you know how to selectively quote too!

The bit you left off: "If the coast is clear it's"


It's not only safer...it's politer.

I-Like-To-Bike

Originally Posted by Lanovran
I'm afraid I honestly don't know how it's supposed to make anything safer for anyone, though, when the result of running red lights and such is invariably to make a cylist less predictable to motorists (not to mention more infuriating).



Based on five years of daily bike commuting in Philadelphia in the 70's and yearly visits to the area since, a bicyclist who stops and waits at intersections clear of opposing traffic will be the "unpredictable cyclist" since nobody expects such behavior.
Also, I seldom, if ever, have come across any indication of drivers in the real world "infuriated" by cyclist (or motorist) behavior at intersections unless it was behavior that caused drivers to unnecessarily slow down.

On the other hand, in the world of BF A&S and Commuting, wild-eyed drivers going berserk at the sight of a cyclist appears quite common.

wphamilton

I have seen that previously and in numerous re-posts, and while I am sympathetic with a reluctance to encourage something that might cause harm, in all honesty I think that your concern is misguided.

Jim from Boston

Thanks for your comments, wphamilton, and I respect and enjoy your current and previous posts. If you think my concern was misguided, take a look at this morning’s scrivenings to this thread on the A&S Forum, ” How can we get more people riding their bikes?”…ballistic

wphamilton

It's just that there is a net gain, even including accidents, even fatalities. If I could take credit for commuting cyclists' increased lifespan and improved health, I would gladly accept the blame for their increased danger. But we're not really responsible for either one, no matter what we say.

Actually in practice I tend to follow your script: I'll say to someone if you're tolerant of the risk it's worthwhile. It's not very persuasive in getting more people on bikes, but seeing me out there every day in all weather is a more effective advocacy. I think. And you are making that "statement" as much as I, or more. Either way the goal of more cyclists is laudable, nothing to feel hesitant about.

Darth Lefty 

Since you mention a big city and Halfords, are you in London? Or even if you're not, does your city have a bike share like the Boris bikes? If there is, it would be an easy thing to try part-time or part-way. I got to try the ones in Paris a few years ago, and it was a hoot.

That bike is probably fine, and it costs about the same as a single car payment. As a few of us said before, the best way to figure this stuff out is to try it and see for yourself what you're lacking or what feels like too much to carry. Beyond lights, a pump, and a patch kit, the rest is really up to you.

Lanovran

I left it off because it seemed superfluous, and entirely beside the point. It's not always easy, nor even possible, to tell if an intersection is "clear" on approach, and especially for a newbie. A lot can change in just a few seconds. It just seems to me that to say it's "safest" to "always" do that maneuver, while it may just be a case of confusing phrasing on your part, is very misleading. At any rate, I do apologize for responding to it with such an irritated and irksome tone as I did; however, I honestly see no merit, safety-wise, in selectively re-interpreting traffic signals just because you're on two wheels instead of four. Heck, if nothing else, it increases the odds of being ticketed (the state of Idaho aside).

I suppose we're just going to have to disagree on that count. What I personally consider safer and more polite towards my fellow road users is to accept the notion that we're all bound by the same set of rules, and following those rules makes it easier to interact with one another on the road. Do people often break those rules? Yes, and it's important to stay alert to that, but I see no reason why I should be the one setting the bad example. The number one complaint that I hear about cyclists from non-cyclists is about how "arrogant" and "dangerous" we are for so frequently running red lights and stop signs. Meanwhile, I'm hoping to counter that stereotype until the laws, infrastructure, and/or society's acceptance of bicycling change to the point where it's no longer an issue.

Jim from Boston

My “rant about how cyclists are fragile little critters who must dart and dodge to avoid being trampled by blindly rampaging dinosaurs (a very poor analogy, by the way)” was in reply to this discussion on the A&S thread, ”Remind Me Why I Should Care What Motorists Think...” started by JoeyBike

I-Like-To-Bike

Where do you encounter all these infuriated people complaining about arrogant and dangerous cyclists? Do they bring these observations gratuitously to you; are they presented in some sort of rationale tone; or is it more like the ranting seen in the comments section of any online publication on any and every subject?

wolfchild

Following all the rules of the road and following every letter of the law doesn't guarantee that a cyclist will not run into a conflict with some jackass driver who is having a bad day or a driver who thinks it's a sport and fun to use their 4000 pound steel box to harass cyclists.
There are some people out there who just don't like to see bicycles on the road and it makes absolutely no difference to them if a cyclist is following rules or not.

Jim from Boston

Well, IME FWIW,

I-Like-To-Bike

FWIW, IMO, most radio talk call-ins/shock DJ commentary is as representative of intelligent thought as the dingy commentary posted by ranters in response to articles about bicyclists on blogs and newspapers. Does anyone think sensible bicyclists should pay attention and/or modify their cycling behavior in order to try and placate irrational goofballs?

Jim from Boston

Well, are we interested in the opinions of those of intelligent thought who agree with us, or the opinions of infuriated, irrational goofballs who consider cyclists as arrogant and dangerous?

I-Like-To-Bike

Personally, I am interested in the opinions of those of intelligent thought whether they agree with me or not, and do not necessarily view that anybody who doesn't share my opinion or views as infuriated, irrational or a goofball. I believe intelligent people can tell the difference between rational thought (even when it supports an opposing opinion) and nuthouse ranting (even when it supports a shared opinion).

Jim from Boston

Well said; I was trying to be ironic.

I-Like-To-Bike

Thank you. To be honest I have a hard time following what you are trying to say when you keep referring to snippets of your and others' previous posts from other threads in a very confusing manner. If you wish to repeat phrases or comments from previous posts, I would recommend just cut and paste the words and leave out the references to the other posts and context from other threads.

Jim from Boston

If I may veer off-topic:

Thanks for that reply. Just yesterday, a local E-acquaintance on BF wrote,

As a (solo) adherent to a cycling lifestyle for decades, I was astounded to serendipitously find BikeForums in 2008, and meet all these subscribers with concerns and stories I had kept to myself. I wrote in my Introduction,

I have become such an enthusiastic subscriber, that posting has become a veritable hobby/pastime. My profession involves writing too, so in general I enjoy crafting documents and posts as a self-proclaimed "wordsmith."

Last year I came upon a post that to me embodied the communication style that I like about BF. In response to a long quote, turbo1889 wrote:

So when I nest quotes, I feel I’m emulating a conversation…”He said," then “You said," then “I said, and now I’m saying…” I leave my quotes as links to identify the author, and if anyone is interested in reading further, or verifying those quotes, they can easily be followed right from the post.

Instead of just snipping, or writing "<SNIP> or "[SKIP]," I use ellipses,"..." to eliminate as much as possible, and still leave the context of the quote comprehensible; and I bold key words and phrases to emphasize the core content of the discussion.

Furthermore,

While even if nobody reads my posts, I do try to communicate clearly to the reader. At least I try to evenly space, and keep my paragraphs short for easier readability, FWIW.

Beth W

I was in your shoes about 7 months ago. One of the things that really helped was to seek out our local bike coalition and take a couple of their classes on riding in urban areas. In San Francisco, they have sit-down classes as well as "on the road" classes to help folks become more comfortable and learn their rights and the rules. It helped me feel a lot more confident. Also, see if you can get a map of where the better bike lanes are and map a route that feels safe/comfortable to you.

Diaz

Got a bike...can't figure out how to shift the gears down? There are levers next to the brakes. The one on the right shifted the gears up, one on the left seems to have no effect. Needless to say, my legs are rather sore.