rideandgoseek 

Hi All,

Saw this 1986 Schwinn Paramount come across CL in Denver. Very interested but curious as to the 'value' of a Paramount of this era. Obviously, this is still a Waterford made bike before they moved production to Japan several years later but just curious about the collectability of an '86 Paramount.

I love vintage Dura Ace and the paint and finishes on this bike look on point. What do you think is FMV for it?

Seller asking $675 but it's been a week without any action. I feel like $550 is probably more on point. What are your thoughts on value, ride quality, and just overall thoughts on this bike.

Thanks in advance for your time!

Best,


https://denver.craigslist.org/bik/d/...244186327.html

3alarmer 

.
...it would sell for the full asking price on the CL here where I live. In that condition, with Dura Ace and indexing, it's a top line bike from 1986. I have a similar bike here, but yellow. If you offered me $550 for it, I would laugh at you. The ride quality is typical of Waterford frames of that era (i.e. very fine).

3alarmer 

...

wrk101

Sold a 1986 frameset alone (no parts) for his complete asking price.

FWIW, some of my best deals have been local buys in Denver. Heading there in September, hope to get more deals that trip!

zukahn1 

I would say the price of $695 is fair I would however try and get them to include the pedals at that price to have a complete DA group.

plonz 

I think that's a great price for a terrific bike.

FWIW, I gave close to $400 for a very nice 1986 frameset that I plan to build with DA7400. I'll be far north of $675 when built. No doubt I overpaid a bit but that was a couple of years ago and the market's feeling softer these days.

jamesdak 

Seems fair to me too.

I paid a bit more for my 1987 a few months ago. And it had been reworked and repainted by the folks at Waterford. Then built up with Dura Ace 9 speed groupset and had C.F. fork, bars, and saddle post added. Oh and I got the original repainted steel fork with it too.

Kactus

I think $675 is a very fair price. In my area that would have sold fast.

vicious cycle

These are some of the better riding road Paramounts, the Dura-ace worked better than any of the previous Campy NR equipment. ( I have a Factory Team De Rosa that came with full Dura-ace, I asked why an Italian Team bike would do that and the reply was "it is better")

David

rideandgoseek 

Thanks to everyone for your input thus far. I'm in the process of setting up a time to meet with the seller now.

I'll be sure to take some pics and post here if I in fact do get my hands on it.

Thanks much!

edilaw

I believe this is a good deal for that level bike with DA componentry. I recently acquired an 87 Paramount with Shimano 600 and Sante derailleurs. Very little use with a few nicks in the icy white paint 63 cm paid $400.00 plus shipping. In my humble opinion $550 for that bike is kinda low.

miamijim

That's about right...

While it would be nice to get the pedals replacement parts for them are expensive....

texaspandj

That is one cool ride. Can't get much better than that. Definitely worth every penny they're asking for.

Scooper

Seller's asking price is fair. I have an '87 with D-A 7400 that's a great ride.

DMC707

Nice bike- nice price

StarBiker

Offer $550 and see what happens? No, and being laughed at would not deter me. $550 is a little scratch. Even if you can get it for $600, but why not offer $550 first.

Trakhak

If I were the seller and I found this thread (which seems fairly likely), if I were offered $550, I'd say "How about $750?"

3alarmer 

...I can only tell you how I react to something like that. I just smile, say no, and then tell the person they ought to keep looking, because I'm certain this bicycle is not right for them.

I've done this on a couple of occasions . I'm not desperate to sell anything, and I feel like a really nice bike ought to go to someone who has some appreciation for what it is. That includes fair market value.


Certainly this seller might be quite different than me, or in different circumstances.

rideandgoseek 

Seller has been very straight forward with me and a good guy. I think we're gonna get this worked out eventually.

Distance between the seller and myself is making this whole thing more difficult (definitely my fault) but I'm confident we'll agree on a price and a time and place to meet.

In the spirit of transparency he sent me a few pics of rust issues on the bike. Everyone take a look and let me know how big of a deal you think these might be in the near future. I plan to keep it original so a repaint is kinda outta the question.

Thanks for any input!

update - it's not loading pictures right now so i will try again in a bit

3alarmer 

...I wish I had ordered more spare toe clips for Shimano aero pedals when they were still available five or six years ago. But who knew that they would stop making them ?

rideandgoseek 

Not really sure how trying to get a good deal on something equates to not appreciating it. I've bought a majority of my bikes at or below FMV and still love and appreciate them for what they are.

I ride them, take care of them, and always end up making my way out to the garage to stare at them after i've had a few ginger ales.

3alarmer 

...I told you up front, that's just my way of sizing up prospective buyers on the local CL. I don't sell many bikes now, but for a while I was running the ads for the best bikes that got donated to the co-op.

There's a great deal of noise on CL, and as a seller, you deal with a lot of weird replies.

That's just the way it is. Unlike your seller, I have little patience for "Would you take __ ?", especially if the guy hasn't even seen the bike yet. Obviously your situation there is different, and now your bike has some rust issues.

I'm just telling you that when I listed stuff for the co-op, I went out of my way to set the price on the low end of fair, so I generally did not respond to the "Would you take ___ ?" guys.

And a good part of the reason I took on that job was to attempt to get those bikes to people who seemed to be happy with them, so less likely to strip them and sell the parts for profit, or otherwise turn a pretty nice older road bike into a fixie.

In this case, at least one person has already told you he sold a bare Waterford P frame for the asking price of this bike. So ad it up and go from there.

DMC707

Of course rust issues can change everything

I had a friend who was looking for a bike and he stumbled across a titanium Serotta in his size on the local CL for $675. My advice was, "Go now with cash - inspect all the welds first but if the frame is clean, don't bat an eye- pay up"

He talked to me again several days later stating -- "it's hard dealing with you cyclists"

When I asked how the Serotta deal went down, he said , "Well I tried calling the guy, even left a message that I'd give him $375 -- but he never called back"

---- when I asked why he would do something boneheaded like that, he replied -- "I just don't feel like doing a deal unless I'm screwing someone over a bit "

Ultimately the guy got sick of looking and paid FMV for a nice Ironman that fit


-- just a cautionary tale against trying to get more blood from a stone on an already very good deal-- But again, if rust is bubbling around the bottom bracket or something - tough to say

StarBiker

He is an ass.

I am not remotely implying this type of behavior. Nor was I advocating such a price drop offer.

I like how somebody makes a suggestion/comment on internet forums, and somebody twists the comment to suit some narrative that was not originally implied.

Scooper

Upon looking more closely at the pictures, rust bubbling is apparent in the close-up photo of the seat lug. That would depreciate the value significantly or cause me to lose interest altogether.