Training for sustained climbs?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Training for sustained climbs?
Get plenty of miles in relatively flat areas but did some riding in the mountains recently and my glutes seemed to be fatiguing quicker than the legs. My theory is that I get out of the saddle more in the flats for shorter climbs but mountains require a sustained sit and burn. Is there anything I can do besides the obvious of more mountain miles?
#2
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,953
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6178 Post(s)
Liked 4,795 Times
in
3,307 Posts
Intervals. Ride as hard as you can for a while and then ease off for a while and then repeat. Since I've got plenty of rolling hills on my local rides, I don't do interval training and can't quite recommend a specific regimen for it. But I'd think that'd help with what you want.
As for sustained climbs? Sustained for climbing a 50 to 100 feet of hill and sustained for climbing a 1000 feet of hill are two different things with differing needs.
As for sustained climbs? Sustained for climbing a 50 to 100 feet of hill and sustained for climbing a 1000 feet of hill are two different things with differing needs.
#3
Asleep at the bars
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA and Treasure Island, FL
Posts: 1,743
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 234 Post(s)
Liked 203 Times
in
135 Posts
More specifically, seated intervals.
__________________
"This 7:48 cycling session burned 5933 calories. Speed up recovery by replacing them with a healthy snack." - Whoop
"This 7:48 cycling session burned 5933 calories. Speed up recovery by replacing them with a healthy snack." - Whoop
Likes For sfrider:
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444
Bikes: bikes
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times
in
711 Posts
Zero need to train in the mountains to ride in the mountains. Do more workouts. Don't stand up on the rollers.
If the climbs are 20 minutes long, do 20 minute repeats. Don't stop pedaling, don't ease up. Constant pressure on the pedals.
This is where a powermeter simply can't be beat for training.
If the climbs are 20 minutes long, do 20 minute repeats. Don't stop pedaling, don't ease up. Constant pressure on the pedals.
This is where a powermeter simply can't be beat for training.
Likes For rubiksoval:
#5
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,298
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1442 Post(s)
Liked 711 Times
in
365 Posts
I’m suprised this is still available on line. everest challenge x2: July 2008
It’s my take on training for the mountains as a flat lander. While I wouldn’t go as far as rubiksoval,a nd say there’s zero need to train in the mountain, I completely agree that the key is training at the requisite power for the length of the climbs.
It’s my take on training for the mountains as a flat lander. While I wouldn’t go as far as rubiksoval,a nd say there’s zero need to train in the mountain, I completely agree that the key is training at the requisite power for the length of the climbs.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#6
Senior Member
How are you posturing yourself on the climbs? People often scoot a bit farther forward on their saddle while climbing versus while on the flats, to compensate for the change in angle: otherwise it can feel like you're having to fight to keep yourself in place.
Is your gearing adequate? By this, I don't mean that you didn't have to get off and walk: I mean that you're able to maintain a pedaling force and cadence in the neighborhood of what your legs want, what you'd self-select if you had infinite gearing range on the bike.
Is your gearing adequate? By this, I don't mean that you didn't have to get off and walk: I mean that you're able to maintain a pedaling force and cadence in the neighborhood of what your legs want, what you'd self-select if you had infinite gearing range on the bike.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444
Bikes: bikes
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times
in
711 Posts
All you're doing is changing the resistance: wind versus gravity.
#8
Senior Member
Likes For znomit:
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Appreciate the replies. Gearing is 36 x 27. I noticed my seat position changes as I shift to find a sweet spot. I’ll try to work some hill repeats and intervals in but was curious if anyone does weights or exercises to target that area? Doesn’t sound like it. It’s not easy to get to the mountains regularly and doing a challenging mtn ride in about a month so significant dropping weight isn’t an option although long term, it’s the best answer.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444
Bikes: bikes
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times
in
711 Posts
I genuinely think in this instance, it doesn't.
If you're doing a climb steep enough to necessitate extended standing and extreme posturing over the front of the bike, then I could see that argument. But it's an aerobic issue (and maybe neuromuscular if not used to constant pedaling), and that can be replicated very easily on the flats or the trainer by simply changing your gears and maintaining pressure on the pedals (which seems to be the biggest struggle for those not using powermeters, as climbs typically mandate such on their own).
#12
Senior Member
Change gears?
I genuinely think in this instance, it doesn't.
If you're doing a climb steep enough to necessitate extended standing and extreme posturing over the front of the bike, then I could see that argument. But it's an aerobic issue, and that can be replicated very easily on the flats or the trainer by simply changing your gears and maintaining pressure on the pedals (which seems to be the biggest struggle for those not using powermeters, as climbs typically mandate such on their own).
I genuinely think in this instance, it doesn't.
If you're doing a climb steep enough to necessitate extended standing and extreme posturing over the front of the bike, then I could see that argument. But it's an aerobic issue, and that can be replicated very easily on the flats or the trainer by simply changing your gears and maintaining pressure on the pedals (which seems to be the biggest struggle for those not using powermeters, as climbs typically mandate such on their own).
By the way, it won't help introducing straw man arguments. Inertial load has nothing to do with standing or changing position on the bike. And lest I be mischaracterized, I'm not saying aerobic power doesn't matter, just that the effect of inertial load when climbing isn't zero.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444
Bikes: bikes
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times
in
711 Posts
I genuinely think it does (and most physiologists and coaches agree with me). Anyone who's tried to maintain the same power downhill and uphill knows there's a different feeling on the pedals and it's more difficult to maintain force throughout the pedal stroke doing downhill.
By the way, it won't help introducing straw man arguments. Inertial load has nothing to do with standing or changing position on the bike. And lest I be mischaracterized, I'm not saying aerobic power doesn't matter, just that the effect of inertial load when climbing isn't zero.
By the way, it won't help introducing straw man arguments. Inertial load has nothing to do with standing or changing position on the bike. And lest I be mischaracterized, I'm not saying aerobic power doesn't matter, just that the effect of inertial load when climbing isn't zero.
And I didn't say it did. I said I could understand that as an argument for specificity (since that followed my sentence stating "it doesn't", referring to said assertion about specificity).
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Fargo ND
Posts: 898
Bikes: Time Scylon, Lynskey R350, Ritchey Breakaway, Ritchey Double Switchback, Lynskey Ridgeline, ICAN Fatbike
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked 546 Times
in
306 Posts
I live in Fargo ND, which is much flatter than Roswell Georgia, so before my wife and I go touring I ride the parking structure at a local mall daily for about a month. It works out to about a 6% incline for about 1500 feet of run, and I can sprint up it, then roll down. You can find a time when the mall is closed or there is very little customer traffic (almost all day thanks to COVID-19) and ride until you are beat.
I find that I am able to get my heart rate up to 90% of theoretical maximum going up, then cool down to 70 on the ride down. Riding that for an hour is a very good workout, and not quite as boring as riding on a trainer.
I find that I am able to get my heart rate up to 90% of theoretical maximum going up, then cool down to 70 on the ride down. Riding that for an hour is a very good workout, and not quite as boring as riding on a trainer.
#15
I think I know nothing.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NE PA
Posts: 709
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked 290 Times
in
204 Posts
I will throw in my 2 cents here. Know that I'm not an expert nor a honcho but I have been dealing with the OP question and have made some limited progress.
OK not to sound like a jerk but with anything, and climbing hills on a bike is no exception, but to get better at climbing the best way to improve is to practice climbing.
I have a book on the subject titled "Climb!" by Selane Yeager (aka "The Fit Chick") she recommends that you find a fairly challenging hill locally and climb it every day for 14 days. There is more to it than that but that is the major component.
What really helped me was riding my wheel-on fluid trainer last winter. You can do intervals or if you have a VR program and a supported trainer do actual hill climbs or do both. It is, for the sake of clarity, the work I did not the trainer, but having a convenient all weather and ready when I'm ready riding solution is, in my opinion, very valuable.
Last fall I couldn't climb to the end of my street which is steep 8%+ grade but for only 0.3 miles, I spent 6 days a week for 6 months last winter doing a lot of climbs using Zwift and today I can today go out a do a 20 mile ride with 2000 feet or more ascent no problems. I'm the guy that was pathetic last year on the hills now guys tell me I'm a strong rider. Me a strong rider that must be mistake but around here where I live you ride either flat rail trails or you pull the hills, there is no middle ground. My bike has a triple chainring 52-42-30 free hub 11-26. The only one time this summer that I have gone to the 30 inner CR was on 3rd and 4th time up a local hill that is a mile long and 9% grade. That ride was 26 miles with 3100 feet of ascent. So 98% of my climbing is using a 42 chainring and my largest cog of 26.
I give most of the credit to this from riding Zwift last winter. From mid-December to mid-May I rode up the Alpe du Zwift a total of 37 times, roughly twice a week. That is 8 miles with 3400 feet of ascent which is sustained climbing by any definition. I don't know how I made it the first time or even the first 10 times but persistence pays off.
OK not to sound like a jerk but with anything, and climbing hills on a bike is no exception, but to get better at climbing the best way to improve is to practice climbing.
I have a book on the subject titled "Climb!" by Selane Yeager (aka "The Fit Chick") she recommends that you find a fairly challenging hill locally and climb it every day for 14 days. There is more to it than that but that is the major component.
What really helped me was riding my wheel-on fluid trainer last winter. You can do intervals or if you have a VR program and a supported trainer do actual hill climbs or do both. It is, for the sake of clarity, the work I did not the trainer, but having a convenient all weather and ready when I'm ready riding solution is, in my opinion, very valuable.
Last fall I couldn't climb to the end of my street which is steep 8%+ grade but for only 0.3 miles, I spent 6 days a week for 6 months last winter doing a lot of climbs using Zwift and today I can today go out a do a 20 mile ride with 2000 feet or more ascent no problems. I'm the guy that was pathetic last year on the hills now guys tell me I'm a strong rider. Me a strong rider that must be mistake but around here where I live you ride either flat rail trails or you pull the hills, there is no middle ground. My bike has a triple chainring 52-42-30 free hub 11-26. The only one time this summer that I have gone to the 30 inner CR was on 3rd and 4th time up a local hill that is a mile long and 9% grade. That ride was 26 miles with 3100 feet of ascent. So 98% of my climbing is using a 42 chainring and my largest cog of 26.
I give most of the credit to this from riding Zwift last winter. From mid-December to mid-May I rode up the Alpe du Zwift a total of 37 times, roughly twice a week. That is 8 miles with 3400 feet of ascent which is sustained climbing by any definition. I don't know how I made it the first time or even the first 10 times but persistence pays off.
Last edited by Thomas15; 08-24-20 at 09:25 AM.
#16
Senior Member
This must be a gross oversimplification. No responsible, knowledgable person would recommend doing the same workout everyday for two weeks straight.
Likes For Thomas15:
#18
Senior Member
#21
In the wind
While all (or most) of the training advice given here is probably useful, one thing that should not be overlooked is the mental part of climbing. People who ride on the flats are used to being able to ease off and coast when they get a little fatigued, but on a 7% grade that has a pretty noticeable effect. The result is they will stand and hammer for a bit in order to keep up the pace, and eventually burn out.
I find its helpful to tell myself at the start of the climb: It's a mountain, not a hill. This is going to take a while
I still stand on the hairpins though.
I find its helpful to tell myself at the start of the climb: It's a mountain, not a hill. This is going to take a while
I still stand on the hairpins though.
Likes For mercator:
#24
I think I know nothing.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NE PA
Posts: 709
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked 290 Times
in
204 Posts
From personal experience in the actual real world and I acknowledge that I have seen in print that we are supposed to have down days but I rode up the same hill for 14 days in a row and I'm still alive and kicking. I did stop after 14 days but it was 14 days and it had the desired effect.
#25
Senior Member