Spoonrobot 

This instagram post caught my eye. Caption reads "Aesthetic Bicycle. How To Make A Beautiful Touring Bike. (New Cycling Mar. 1985" and there are a few more photos posted at the account with more detail.



It's obviously in Japanese but I can't help but wonder if there was an English language equivalent? I'd love to see the explanations for different angles and such. Aesthetic sensibilities for bicycles have always fascinated me as they seem to have become less and less important as the sport moved into modern frame design after the late 1980s. My first bikes in the early 2000s were 70s/80s road bikes that I set up per what I found on Sheldon Brown's site. The only guidelines I remember were the brake levers tips being slightly above an imaginary line extending along the bottom of the drops and that seatpost, stem and crankset were all supposed to be the same color. In 2018 it seems like most of the consideration for what a bicycle looks like is often limited to make sure the photos taken are crisp and clear and that's about it. Does anyone have their own aesthetic rules for setting up their bikes?

Velo Mule

It looks like the angle shown apply to the fender ends. There may be other versions of the that perhaps apply to different aspects of the bicycle design. Interesting find.

It looks like a French bike is the model right down to the Huret derailleur and TA crank.

canyoneagle

Great topic.

I have a few things I abide by:

- Handlebars and hoods level or close to level. If the bars/hoods are rotated too far back it looks dumb (IMO) and is less practical. To me, it means a shorter stem / shorter reach bar is needed (or perhaps TT is too long)
- Cranks/Stem/Seatpost same color
- Bars/Saddle matching and same color as frame highlights. Black saddle/bars if not.
- Saddle level (or very close to it) and close to center or slightly back on the rails.
- Components matching (brakes, Derailleurs)
- Saddle/bar heights appropriate for intent of bike. Racing bikes with -1 to -4" drop (for larger riders like me), touring/sport bikes close to level


I like the look of fenders on a suitable bike. Not on a race bike, of course. If the frame has eyelets, I prefer fenders on the bike.

mstateglfr 

Most of my specific wants are practical and not aesthetic. I fully understand that my bikes arent beauties. They may look 'neat' or 'cool' or 'fun', but they arent beauties. Its often due to the size- like a gangly young giraffe, the proportions arent ideal.

The few aesthetic requirements I have developed are...
Saddle level.
Bars that have a bend so the ramps and drops are both level(or near level) with the ground. Hoods that then transition off the level ramps as smoothly as possible.
No technomic stems. If more rise is needed to get the bars in the correct spot, then Dynamic II stems are used.
Stem, seatpost, and bars all same color(black or silver).

The first two are both aesthetic and practical. The last two is simply aesthetic as I dont find technomic stems to look good in almost any application. They seem to be a fix for a frame thats too small. On the 2 bikes I have where I could use one, I have 0degree Nitto Dynamic II stems instead. They arent a traditional -17 bend and many dont like the 0degree look, but I dislike the 0degree look less than I dislike the comically high technomic look. Its a comprimise.


My bikes are like Mary from Springsteen's Thunder Road- "you aint a beauty, but hey you're alright".

plonz 

mstateglfr 

I have bought mine from Ben's Cycle.
https://www.benscycle.com/nitto-dyna...c2_870/product
looks like only 25.4 clamp is in stock right now.

they have 26.0 clamp size too.

thinktubes 

plonz 

mstateglfr 

I have purchased 3 26.0 stems from Ben's in the last 18 months. I would figure they are still being produced and maybe just out of stock because Ben's still shows 26.0 as an option on their site, you just cant select it to buy.
Give them a call- ive called before to ask about the stems and the guy I spoke with looked and found 2 even though they didnt show as available online. At worst you can then ask them about availability if they are out of stock at the moment.

madpogue 

Sooo.... somewhere among the 27,000+ posts in that thread, there's an English translation of that drawing? Is there a prize for the first person who finds it?

Reynolds 531 

I have translated this from Japanese to English. What do I win?

madpogue 

You win the frame pump on the bike pictured in the drawing, if you can find the owner.....

philbob57

Consider the aesthetic demands on the rider, too. According to this diagram, the rider needs to be proportioned so that the combo of torso, arms, and riding position compute out to long reach relative to the legs; that is, the the legs have to be pretty short for the rider's reach.

How does the Dynamic solve the problem that the Technomic solves?

plonz 

Comes down to your aesthetic preferences.

Technomic showing a whole lot of quill. Pic is from another BF post. Not my bike and not my preference. On the plus side, you keep the classic -17 degree look where the stem is near parallel to the top tube.


This is my bike and my preference. While not a Dynamic II, it is a 0 degree rise that accomplishes the same thing. Far less exposed quill but the stem angles upward which I know is off-putting for many. I prefer the rise rather than the exposed quill.


@mstateglfr Thanks for the Ben's tip. I'll give them a shout on my next build.

Spoonrobot 

I laughed very hard at this, good show

My intention was more in line with the article portion that is in the pages of the magazine but not picture. Having an explanation of why A is A is interesting to me.

Celeste Mike

Seems to me the explanation is right there in the drawing. You see the angle "a" repeated four times when the fenders are aligned as shown. It's hidden symmetry, and humans tend to find beauty in symmetry. (Whether they realize it or not.)

nomadmax 

@plonz

What 0 degree stem is that? I think it looks good.

plonz 

Bicyclist008

I like the look of the retro downwards angles stems. Not sure how good they are for causing backache mind...

Stadjer

Maybe it serves a specifically Japanese need. I've been told that the Japanes have a different sense of aesthetics, so they might need a few ground rules when designing for foreign markets or designign European inventions.

According to Vitrivius the human body was the basis of aesthetic proportioning. So maybe that's why at least some bikes look good. But maybe Japanese are proportioned differently. There are quite a lot of Chinese students cycling where I live, and a lot of the females ride kids bikes instead of small ladies bikes. The explanation given is that they aren't just short, but have different proportions too. Maybe the Japanese and the Chinese proportions are more alike than European proportions?.

The Golden Boy 

I know I've seen Technomics that appear to be "comically" tall (or maybe it's the Tallux stem that's that high), but since getting a few of them on bikes- I don't judge. I have a couple Technomics in use and a Specialized Dirt Drop- so a Nitto DD branded as Specialized... I prefer riding in a more upright position- it's comfortable to me, and I don't worry about my neck. The only issue that I recall having between the Dirt Drop and the Technomic is that it was a little more difficult to walk the bike- as I usually grab on to the stem. After a while you get used to it, I really don't have much of a preference- the Technomic looks a little more traditional so that's what I've chosen.

Another factor for my bikes is having a 21" bike, the head tubes are really short- so all my stems are slammed in there- but still way up there.


1985 Trek 620 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr


IMG_1703 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

mstateglfr 

on the judging...its the point of this thread. To have aesthetic preferences means that you have judged a preference to be better for you than the other options.
I totally get the reason why technomic stems exist.
- to allow someone to ride a frame thats too small.
and/or
- to allow someone to ride drop bars in an upright non-traditional drop bar position.

I use Dynamic II stems for the same reasons. I have them on frames that need to get the bars up more due to the saddle height.

I also understand that aesthetically speaking, bars where the drops are even with the top tube isnt really great looking and that a 0degree isnt classic looking. But it makes the bikes fit better so I go with it.

I am not judging the people who use technomic stems in any way. They are just making the bikes they have fit so they can ride.


what's interesting is how many of us(c&v) would probably benefit from taller stack height bikes that currently flood the market. But with that often comes a sloping top tube and that brings a whole other group who judge such a bike design to not be what they like/prefer.

the few who have measurements which fit a bike with 6cm of seatpost and a slammed stem are rare.

Road Fan

Well, I think this Japanese French-fit Randonneuse looks pretty good! But it looks like I have to go find an oceanfront exposure in which to build my bike, or I might not be able to get the fender stays aligned correctly!

Chr0m0ly 

chelvel

I like those lugs a lot.