seypat

Sooooo, what about caliche? Do the bike companies need to develop a caliche specific bike? Caliche sounds so much cooler than cross or gravel. Hmmmm.

Chad991

NEED....... need has nothing to do with it,lol, I want one. How many of us buy a new bike out of actual NEED?

Hmmm

Right of course. But to answer the OP's question, no. I'm frustrated that the industry makes such a division between a CX and "Gravel" bike and the whole category name of "Gravel" irks me. Worse than the marketing of Gravel bikes is that so many on these forums seem to think that CX bikes are no good on gravel.

Long live the CX bike.

Atlas Shrugged

A CX bike is basically a criterium bike made for dirt thus traditionally have aggressive handling, limited tire clearance, tight gearing, low stack and few braze-ons. Other than improved tire clearance from traditional rim brake race bikes they have no real features for the type of adventure riding most people are doing. People want stable predictable handling, a more comfortable position on the bike and a wide range of gearing. But hey if you want to take your CX bike on a long gravel ride or perhaps a multiday tour to each his/her own and enjoy.

Seattle Forrest

​​​​​​I don't think anybody thinks a CX bike isn't good on gravel. People think there's even better. CX bikes have always been considered among the most versatile, but gravel built on and improved that.

I don't love the name "gravel" either because out here it's mostly hard packed dirt, but that ship already sailed.

WhyFi

You've mentioned this a couple times, but I'm... still not convinced. Are you sure that it's packed dirt? From the photos that you post, it looks like primarily logging roads, and I can't imagine that dirt would be suitable for the loads and the rain that they would see. Have you ever tried chipping away at it? I would be surprised if you didn't find a mix of aggregate packed under the surface, with 1" chunks, or thereabouts.

topflightpro

If dry, caliche is as smooth and solid as a paved road. If wet, it doesn't matter. You're getting stuck in it.

From what my friends who are into this say, there are a variety of surfaces ranging from hard packed dirt to a foot thick layer of gravel. It just depends, and the different surfaces dictate the tire selection.

Chad991

Does a 29er mountain bike not qualify anymore on dirt and gravel? Mine does pretty well.

u235

They do. But who is buying a plain old MTB anymore made for dirt and gravel. They too are all gradually inching ever closer to the extreme end of enduro or a down hill actually creating a snafu where a drop bar "gravel bike" is a better bike for all day gravel and trails than most MTB anymore. Who actually pedals an MTB **UP** a hill anymore?

Chad991

lol, crap, I guess me....I figured off the road I was ok...not that I really dont want the colnago posted earlier in this thread...but that's just I love colnagos

HTupolev

This may be a matter of semantics. Our gravel roads do generally contain a lot of rocky aggregate. On some of the more "major" gravel roads, the aggregate is relatively small, and the road's surface can be dominated by packed fine particles. For example, here's a photo I took on the Mountain Loop Highway in 2016:



These surfaces often suffer from potholling in low-gradient spots, and these roads sometimes develop considerable washboarding due to their high traffic. But when they're well-maintained, on a damp day they can be comparable to paved riding.

On the lesser-traveled roads, especially getting out into the large networks of logging roads, the aggregate can get much bigger. It's often created on-site, and there are many small quarries throughout the foothills for this purpose. A lot of these less-prominent roads are also double-track with a defined centerline.

For example, here's a double-track logging road that I rode two weeks ago, big aggregate embedded in hardpack:



The degree to which the aggregate is embedded in finer particles versus being loose can vary, as can the size of the aggregate, as can the degree to which it's compacted. Here's one road which the logging folks laid down a couple years before the trucks compacted it down:



That was very choppy to ride on.

Most of the gravel roads in the area are smoother than those, but you tend to see people running at least 38s on gravel bikes if they'll fit. Seattle Forrest seems happy on 33s, but I'm not sure how much he ventures onto the lower-traveled roads.

Nothing wrong with using them on gravel. But they tend to be poor on smooth and non-technical stuff.

On most of the gravel riding I do, MTBs are a solid option for rides that just go up and down, and which start and end on the rough stuff. But stretches of smooth low-gradient stuff, and especially paved roads, quickly put them at a tangible disadvantage. Even with its 2.1" tires, my gravel bike is fast enough on paved roads that I sometimes use it on spirited road rides, and I can mostly hang with pacelines of similar composition as on my traditional skinny-tire road bikes; my MTB is vastly slower in those situations.

By contrast, my gravel bike is a dumpster fire in technical situations. But roads, even rough unpaved ones, usually aren't technical.

biglmbass

Have you been following them long? I notice it’s 25% off now. I too am tempted. I wonder how often they run these sales?

big john

The people I know who ride "gravel bikes" use them for rides with a combination of road and dirt. A mountain bike would work but mountain bikes suck on the road.

trailangel

Cross Country 29r with 100mm suspension and the right 2.1 inch tires rides well on pavement and will leave your "gravel bike" behind when riding rough stuff.
I stopped riding drop bar bikes in the dirt years ago. Can't figure out why anyone would ride in the dirt with narrow drop bars. Don't ever see any motorcyclist doing this.

Atlas Shrugged

However all gravel races are won on drop bar gravel bikes which is what they are built for. That said no drop bar bikes win mountain bike races including cross country events.

Seattle Forrest

I was hoping you'd chime in, I don't know the answer to @WhyFi's question, what's under the road surface. I always assumed it was more dirt, mostly clay, with some big rocks here and there.

I've ridden some roads that I know are very low traffic, in the Teanaway and outside Darrington. In all my years hiking in the T'way I've never seen a bear, and I've seen several of them on dirt roads there.

A lot of the riding I do looks like your second picture in terms of road surface. I try to avoid your third pic, I'll ride short stretches of it, but I mostly find other places to ride instead. You need bigger tires for #3 , but not for the first two.

Roads with a lot of clay get so hard in the summer they might as well be paved.

I hate washboards. Potholes are more common on the places I find to ride, a mine field of potholes everywhere.

WhyFi

Cool. Yeah, I'd consider the first two to fall squarely within "gravel" and the last to be closer to "hell." A lot of our gravel roads end up like the first pic if given enough time, but a reddish color because it's primarily limestone; when laid down, it's chunky, but autos will crunch it down pretty quickly since limestone is sedimentary. But yeah, the top layer can give the appearance of dirt/clay, but there's chunk and structure underneath.

illjustride

I rather ride an MTB hardtail or an SS of some sort. More fun.

Paul Barnard

35% through this weekend.

Hmmm

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Heaven forbid you have a bike that turns a little bit faster i.e. "aggressive handling" and good luck to you if you ever want to ride that bike for a few hours or god forbid a few days in a row.

The N+1 sentiment is so strong here. I went from a road bike to a 'cross bike and prefer the 'cross bike to my road bike in every way, + it goes off road well. When I ride in road group rides some people are astonished that my bike can work like this. Oh, and it's 1x.

1 bike to rule them all!

seypat

This thread is getting ridiculous.

So what do you tell a kid these days when you present him or her with that shiny new steed? "You can't ride it to the park to play with your friends because you might encounter some gravel, or dirt, or pavement. You better walk instead."

It makes you wonder how Elliot and his crew managed to get ET back so he could go home. They somehow managed and took a ride across the moon as well.

seypat

It reminds me of back when I was a Denmaster in Cub Scouts. My den and another were going to do a ride through the neighborhood for the bicycle patch. The other Denmaster's house was the meet up point. At that time he was really into being/showing people he was a serious cyclist. More so than actually just riding his bike. A typical instagram athlete. He walks out of the house for our 1 or 2 mile cruise fully kitted up and the kids laugh him back into the house. I tell him maybe he should change into something more casual so the kids won't think they have to be kitted up as well. He refused and did the "ride" in one of his Trek/LA fanboy kits. Those kids sure had a good laugh seeing his shaved arms and legs.

WhyFi

Lol. Y'all are putting words in our mouths and getting upset that those words leave a bad taste in yours.

I don't think that anyone that has defended the existence of gravel bikes has yet suggested that the nuanced differences are enough to warrant buying one in addition to a CX or saying that a CX is incapable of the same general tasks - people are simply pointing out why you might want one instead of the other based upon the specifics of the activity and the relative strengths brought to the table by each option.

mstateglfr 

Way to create an argument then knock it down.
What's ridiculous is your hypothetical conversation and ET comment.

This is a hobby- some like to have a lot of toys as part of their hobby. Others dont.

Camilo

I feel there's no need to buy a "gravel bike" if you already have and are comfortable on your cross bike.

My wife and I have cross bikes we call gravel bikes. The regular cross gearing they came with wasn't good for our needs so they now have triples and 11-32 cassettes. As others have pointed out, that's a very real difference between a cross bike and a real gravel bike.

I got mine about 15 years ago for gravel riding. There was no such thing as a "Gravel Bike". I needed the clearance for larger tires than my road bike as well as rear rack and fenders. At the time I lived on a rough gravel road and needed those features for commuting. A cross frame fit my needs perfectly.

As for the geometry, the frames we have aren't super relaxed, but with the right up angled stems, etc., we're comfortable. They aren't any more aggressive than our road bikes.

The only reason I might buy a "real" gravel bike is that the newer ones have disc brakes and can accommodate larger tires. Our bikes with canti and V brakes can only get around about 35 mm tires. I'd like a 40 or so.
​​​
​​I recently installed a Shockstop
stem on my wife's bike to ease the vibrations from rough surfaces and it seems to work well. I'm going to put one on my bike. I'm also thinking of putting mild shock absorbing seatposts too. This stuff mitigates the disadvantages of being limited to the smaller tires than what I'd prefer.

But I haven't done that yet because our cross bikes are comfortable, have great gearing, and already have two sets of wheels each, one with ~35 mm treaded tires and the other with skinny road tires. We travel all around with those bikes with our travel trailer and the versatility is great. With new gravel bikes, I would want to replace all those wheels with discs and don't have a burning desire to do that.