How Much Damage Does Canyon Do To LBS's?
#76
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Yes. Absolutely. I have no idea where the split of profits is between LBS and mfr. on a $10K bike, as I say. No idea whatsoever. But if you are correct about all this, then this model that Canyon is employing is a real potential threat to those big mfrs. As you say, why would someone pay $6K for a perhaps quite similar bike they can get for $4K? Again, I cannot comment on all this current enthusiasm for claimed Canyon quality, as I do not own one. Not sure if that is valid and accurate or not. I personally tend to trust companies that have longer track records. But that's just me and I am not suggesting anyone needs to share that view. Perhaps, the enthusiasm is mostly about pricing. Whatever. but this is the basic reason for the post.
Trek Domane SL 7: Ultegra Di2, 8.84kg. EUR 5.6k
Canyon Ultimate CF SL Disc 8.0 Di2: Ultegra Di2, 7.5kg. EUR 3.3k
Now the wheelset is better on the Domane but you could just upgrade if you wanted to, for EUR 1300 and still be EUR 1k cheaper for a bike that weighs 1.3kg less (maybe more less if your upgraded wheelset weighs less than the standard) and has the same components (what's left after drive system, brakes and wheelset, the rest is more or less 'the bike', maybe saddle).
Or you could get the Canyon with the better wheelset for EUR 4k, still 1.6k less:
Canyon Ultimate CF SL Disc 8.0 Di2 Aero which weighs 7.35kg
And I am pretty sure the latter Canyon is an overall better bike, but maybe I am biased the other way. So, you would seriously fork out EUR 1.6k more for a Trek name, despite same components and a frame that is 1.5kg heavier? Really?
Regarding the "longer track record" - Canyon has been around almost 20 years. They have a serious track record in that time, Jan Frodeno uses their TT bikes for one.
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#77
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#78
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The Aeroad looks nice. But the only Shimano Di2 that comes up when I look is the Aeroad CF SLX Disc 9.0 Di2. $7500 is a good price for R9170, but I'd be just as happy with R8070. Also, it's way too windy and especially gusty around here for those deep rims, and not really flat enough to really enjoy them even on the rare still day. I ride out my front door and can't really see hauling a bike for an hour or two to go for a ride. So those would need replacing. On a bike like this I'd want a dual side PM crankset, so off with the R9000 and on with a Quarg or something. Saddle - swap. Retape the bars. GP 5000TL instead of whatever rim protecting rubber they put on there (probably cheaper than putting the wheels in bags). Not sure what out front computer mount is compatible with those bars. Still a good deal, just not as spectacular once it's turned into the bike I really want.
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The Emonda range seems to be a much better value for money than Domane. The Emonda SL 7 Disc, is EUR 750 cheaper than the Domane, more than 1kg lighter with same components as far as I can tell (same wheel set and drive system). Is there a reason for this?
I mean you can just look at the flagship models:
Madone SLR 9 Disc eTap (8.0kg) - EUR 12.6k vs. Aeroad CF SLX Disc 9.0 ETAP (7.3kg) - EUR 7.8k
Émonda SLR 9 Disc eTap (6.7kg) - EUR 10.6k vs Ultimate CF Evo Disc 10.0 SL (6.0kg) - EUR 8.0k
Domane SLR 9 eTap (8.2kg) - EUR 11.2k vs Endurace CF SLX Disc 9.0 ETAP (7.2kg) - EUR 7.2k
No comparison whatsoever. In fact, to get down to the 7.2k, you would need to get the Domane SLR 7 (closest bike in that price range at EUR 7.0k). The Canyon has Etap vs Ultegra Di2 on the Trek. Not to mention that Domane weighs 8.5kg compared to 7.2kg. Unless you are saying Trek crushes Canyon on aerodynamic performance, there's just no comparison.
Last edited by ZHVelo; 04-10-20 at 05:42 PM.
#81
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Now that I think about it, I've had a much better overall experience when buying gear at a number of LBSes than I have buying full bikes or getting maintenance. Maybe that suggests what LBSes actually profit from the most? Bikes take up a lot of space and depreciate. Maintenance is time-consuming and there's a fixed limit to throughput, and at least the shops around here always have a queue during riding season.
#82
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Then take the same Canyon bike from the Endurance range, also 4k, 250g heavier, otherwise same quality of components as the Ultimate.
The Emonda range seems to be a much better value for money than Domane. The Emonda SL 7 Disc, is EUR 750 cheaper than the Domane, more than 1kg lighter with same components as far as I can tell (same wheel set and drive system). Is there a reason for this?
The Emonda range seems to be a much better value for money than Domane. The Emonda SL 7 Disc, is EUR 750 cheaper than the Domane, more than 1kg lighter with same components as far as I can tell (same wheel set and drive system). Is there a reason for this?
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#84
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Sure if you want tubeless, that's not tubeless.... But better than what most bikes come with
#85
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My Inflite was set up tubed but came with tubeless rim tape on the rims and a pair of tubeless valves. I wasn't expecting that, so was pleasantly surprised.
It also came with a big box containing a single item rattling around inside that I didn't expect- a tiny bell.
It also came with a big box containing a single item rattling around inside that I didn't expect- a tiny bell.
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#89
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Can you expand on that comment? Most of the major bike manufacturers will not allow their products to be sold over the internet. I don't save hardly anything when I buy parts over the internet, although sometimes there is a better selection. I don't see the internet killing the LBS.
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Can you expand on that comment? Most of the major bike manufacturers will not allow their products to be sold over the internet. I don't save hardly anything when I buy parts over the internet, although sometimes there is a better selection. I don't see the internet killing the LBS.
#91
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Can you expand on that comment? Most of the major bike manufacturers will not allow their products to be sold over the internet. I don't save hardly anything when I buy parts over the internet, although sometimes there is a better selection. I don't see the internet killing the LBS.
#92
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I don't think so. It didn't have that thick, fairing like ST. Let me go look at the website. I should see more of it in the future. The subdivision is on the opposite side of a main road from mine.
Edit: It might be. I don't think it was an Aeroad. The bike I saw had daylight between the ST/rear tire.
Edit: It might be. I don't think it was an Aeroad. The bike I saw had daylight between the ST/rear tire.
Last edited by seypat; 04-10-20 at 09:27 PM.
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They have plenty of bikes listed in their outlet section. A person might find a good deal there.
#94
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Then take the same Canyon bike from the Endurance range, also 4k, 250g heavier, otherwise same quality of components as the Ultimate.
The Emonda range seems to be a much better value for money than Domane. The Emonda SL 7 Disc, is EUR 750 cheaper than the Domane, more than 1kg lighter with same components as far as I can tell (same wheel set and drive system). Is there a reason for this?
The Emonda range seems to be a much better value for money than Domane. The Emonda SL 7 Disc, is EUR 750 cheaper than the Domane, more than 1kg lighter with same components as far as I can tell (same wheel set and drive system). Is there a reason for this?
Also, bikes are more than just a generic frame with some components on them. The fact that we are all not riding Canyon - despite them being around for 10+ years - is an indication that just being cheaper isnt going to eliminate everyone else.
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*I don't usually need much in the way of service since I do most of my own work but more and more its a bike co-op that has saved the day when the LBS says they'll look at the bike in 2 months. There has never been a time when a co-op tech didn't just get to work on the problem right then and there.
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I am actually surprised by how many people have NOT heard of Canyon. Really?
(No concealed snark - i really AM surprised. I've always thought of them as a fairly well known brand)
(No concealed snark - i really AM surprised. I've always thought of them as a fairly well known brand)
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#98
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Really? People seem to love-love-love Canyon here on BF. If you read threads here over the past few years you’ve likely seen it mentioned more than a few times.
Back in the states I knew of one guy with a Canyon, but that was about 20 months ago and I don’t think they’ve been in the US that long.
I see a few more here in the UK but still nowhere near the big manufacturers for sure.
Back in the states I knew of one guy with a Canyon, but that was about 20 months ago and I don’t think they’ve been in the US that long.
I see a few more here in the UK but still nowhere near the big manufacturers for sure.
#99
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In the last 30 days I have bought two bikes from Canyon. The nearest Trek dealer couldn’t touch what we wanted price-wise, so I had to spend my money where it got me what I wanted. I *REALLY* wanted a 2020 carbon Domane, but the Trek pricing is just silly when you compare equivalent bikes. Trek priced themselves out of two sales. We were looking at a Checkpoint for my wife. The Canyon Inflite blows it away at the same price point. The local shop still gets my money for certain things, like sale jerseys and lube, chains, occasional new gels to try out, etc. My “local” is 35 miles from home.
No disrespect, but the reason Trek can do this is because they aren't hurting for sales. Like you, I was actually outraged by Trek's insane pricing. I emailed them to tell them as much. The response was pretty much what you already know. They do it because they can. They look at Specialized for a basic guide for how they should price their bikes (based on the response I received), not Canyon or any other "direct to consumer" brands. So as long as the sales numbers don't reflect a trend that they don't like, they're not going to change it because of 2 lost sales. Most people looking at full carbon bikes in the $5,000 - $10,000 range are probably huge cycling fans (or just love spending money) and probably have a bit of team spirit in them as well. That goes far for brand loyalty. For instance, I just didn't appreciate the lack of customer support and friendliness from Specialized when I went to their stores (and I went to a few)...which just turned me off to their bikes. I've loved the Madone for a while, and when the new Domane came out looking 85% Madone with a less aggressive riding profile, new IsoSpeed, etc....I had to have one. I could have bought two similarly equipped bikes from various other manufacturers, but I mean, people also buy Ferrari's when Corvettes are just as fast. Seems dumb to waste the extra money, but nobody that owns a Ferrari is going to care, and Ferrari isn't going to lower their prices because someone came into their store wanting them to price-match a Corvette. Maybe a bit of a bad comparison, because Trek is pretty much a run-of-the-mill bike, not some prestigious name...but still, they can get away with it, so marketing and brand loyalty have to be playing a part there.
Some of it is just what you want and how you view the bike you're riding. My 2020 Domane SLR is gorgeous and is a blast to ride. If I want a 2nd bike down the road, I'll probably end up with a Canyon.
Last edited by N00b_Cyclist; 04-11-20 at 05:48 AM.
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