PeteHski

But you should at least compare the cost of high performance production bike tyres with high performance production car tyres right? Continental tyres for my car are around £250 each. That’s still relatively cheap per kg of rubber compared to bike tyres, but I don’t really want 5 kg bike tyres! As others have said, you pay for premium performance, not mass of rubber. Why are Gatorskins cheaper than GP5000s when they have more rubber and last longer? The logic is flawed. You pay for performance and relatively niche products are inevitably more expensive. For every bike fitted with GP5000s there are probably hundreds, if not thousands fitted with much cheaper tyres.

Eric F 

I'm asking because I don't know...Do F2 and F3 use different tires than F1? My guess is they do, but I'm not sure.

Yan 

The reality is that pricing has little to do with the product itself. The average person in a developed western country has X dollars of disposable income per year to spend on their sport hobby. Brands plot a graph of price vs sale volume and choose whatever price happens to sit at the top of the profit curve. If they can make a product for $5 and sell it for $1000, they'll do it (Ceramic Speed lol). They're not going to put some limit on the sale price just because the manufacturing cost was x, y, z. The only limit is how much of a chump the customer is willing to be.

This has been thoroughly discussed in the recent bicycle vs motorcycle price thread.

Check out this article about psychological manipulation strategies in retail pricing. Make a checklist of how many of these strategies are used by bicycle brands (hint: all of them)
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/manip...les-verasdonck


The decoy effect, also known as the attraction effect or asymmetric dominance, is a compelling cognitive bias in consumer behaviour. This theory posits that consumers are more likely to change their preference between two options when a third, less attractive option is presented. Imagine you're in a cinema. You see two popcorn options: a small one priced at €2 and a large one priced at €4. You're undecided. But then, a medium option costing €3.50 appears on the menu, and suddenly, the larger one seems like an absolute steal. That's the decoy effect in action. You can employ the decoy effect to steer customers towards the most profitable option by introducing an asymmetrically dominated choice. When used correctly, this strategy can have a significant impact on consumers' purchasing decisions and potentially increase sales.

Yan 

Actually I admit I am also not sure.

I just looked it up. F2 tires are narrower than F1 tires due to the cars being slower.

Iride01 

I think it'd be a safe bet that the margins on even cheaper mattresses are many times more than the margins on the most expensive bicycles sold by the big bike brands.

I guess I need to find a mattress forum to go gripe about it on! <grin>

Seems I'm in the wrong thread though. This is tires not bikes.....

genejockey 

Though, tbf, 2, 3, and 4 are entirely because of 1.

genejockey 

Yes. I got at least 2 years out of the GP5Ks that came with my Canyon.

Eric F 

I completely agree about mattress vs. bike margins. I'm fairly shocked that mattress stores manage to stay open, considering the apparent low volume of business most of them seem to do.

Eric F 

New tires on my road bike have been due to wanting something different, or replacement due to irreparable sidewall damage. I change tires frequently on my gravel bike, in search of the 'holy grail" tire (grippy in soft stuff, fast on hard stuff). My MTB has been dancing in the same shoes for over 2 years. The only tire I've recently changed due to wear was on my trainer bike, and that was over a year ago, I think.

rekmeyata

A hell of lot more technology goes into a car tire than a bicycle tire!!

It's the same nonsense that you can buy a bicycle for $7,000 and yet you can find brand new motorcycles for that price and even less, and yet somehow we're being led to believe that a bicycle has more technology than a motorcycle? Don't make me laugh.

A $6,400 2024 Kawasaki Ninja 500 SE with ABS brakes motorcycle

VS

A $14,000 Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL8 Dura-Ace Di2 bicycle; which do you all think has the most technology?

I tried to post pics of the two but all I got was a bunch of lines of gibberish, so just google the two and compare them side by side.

Eric F 

The Spec S-Works is a pinnacle machine for the sport of cycling, used by the top racers in the world, and is also accessible to you and me. How much does a MotoGP bike cost, and can you and I buy the same bikes as Bagnaia or Marquez ride? What is the bicycle equivalent of a Kawasaki Ninja 500 SE in comparison to a MotoGP machine, and how much does it cost?

rekmeyata

Nope, your comparison is not correct, I'm comparing technology between the two, not who rides it or where it is ridden.

Maelochs

False equivalency. The fact is that pro cyclists race on what are essentially showroom stock machines. There is no equivalent of a Moto GP bike in bicycling.
Also, the fact that a $14K-$18K bicycle is at the "pinnacle" in the cycling world has Zero to do with the tech involved, just like a Rolex isn't more advanced than a $3 Timex and the really expensive watches (Patek Phillipe? I don't know or much care) aren't more technologically advanced. Once you get into luxury pricing, there is Zero correlation between the actual item's value and it's perceived value and thus its sale price.

As I mentioned somewhere else, bicycles are no longer seen as transport or even sporting goods, by ans large, particularly the top third of the market---they are seen as luxury hobby artifacts, and thus, are priced by what the market will bear, with higher prices actually adding to the cachet to some degree. Motorcycles, even high-performing sport bikes, are still sold mainly as transportation, (the exception being Harleys (and maybe Buells) and Indians and other big cruisers which are sold as Viagra to baby-boomers.

As far as it goes, for $18 K you could probably get a custom-designed CF framed bike built to order with almost any components you chose. Even so it wouldn't really be the equivalent of the Moto GP bike .... and technologically, it would still be ... a bicycle. The most intensive electronics are a simple switch for the shifting, whereas a motorcycle can have ABS, spark advance, electronic fuel injection, sensors on everything from the engine and coolant temp to the oil temp, turbocharging .... the turn signal on any motorcycle is more advanced than the most advanced electronics on a bicycle.

On the other hand, only the bicycle is a bicycle.

A simple rule of thumb---decode what you want and what fits your budget, and buy what3ver, and leave everyone else to do the same. All these comparisons ... How much rubber is in a car tire versus a bike tire? sort of makes a lot of folks look silly.

Though I must say, I would highly approve of selling bicycles by the pound ... we could all ride bikes below the UCI minimum, because they'd be cheaper than big-box BSOs.

(If that sounds silly, it is supposed to ... if it doesn't either I have failed or ... well, never mind.)

Yan 

Check out the massively complex manufacturing and assembly that goes into just the engine of even the cheapest motorcycle.

​​​​​​

Eric F 

I understand the reasons why my comparison is not correct. IMO, comparing a bicycle to a motorcycle with "look at the technology!" is a dumb comparison to start with. People don't buy high end bicycles because they think it's technologically superior to a motorcycle. They want their high end bicycle to be a high end bicycle, and perform like a high end bicycle. If you think the cost isn't justified because of a lack of technology when comparing to a mid-level motorcycle, then don't buy one.

Maelochs

Okay, @Eric_F, you did your part and injected some reason into the thread. Now please step aside and let the comedians rant.

rekmeyata

This comparison was what others were talking about comparing car tires with bicycle tires, the price being charged for bicycle tires is a huge rip off, there is a hell a lot more technology in a car tire, plus a hell of lot more material, plus much more flat resistant, plus will last at least 50,000 miles longer than bicycle tire; the same is said about what some people pay for a bicycle vs a motorcycle.

I'm not going to talk about this any more, all it seems we're doing is going around in circles, and I'm getting off the circle. Have a great night.

ralphs

But Aldi did sell that bike repair stand a few years ago. When is that coming back?

Duragrouch

I totally get it, I'm with you, exact same feelings and comparison. Not knocking anyone that spends more. But I currently bike only locally. If I was going on a long tour, so a lot of other costs involved and I want to maximize my comfort and minimize flats, I'd pop for premium Schwalbe fat rubber (20"/406). If I was still riding a 700c road race bike, I don't know if I am sensitive enough to feel greater "suppleness" on skinny tires as touted by some for premium tires, but I'd want decent puncture resistance and longevity if it didn't compromise traction.

PeteHski

This sums up the absurdity of the argument pretty well. Heavy bike tyres with thick tread should cost much more than lightweight thin race tyres. But for some reason they are much cheaper and last way longer.

Sy Reene

Lot of comparison between bike and car tires. Much easier to question why Conti bike tires are much more expensive than other brands' premium tire.
I was going thru this page at Excel. https://www.excelsports.com/category...ncher-tubeless

5000s TRs are listed at $85, and that's supposedly a sale price vs a $96 MSRP.
Enve, Michelin, Pirelli, Spesh, Vittoria all seem to be available at ~30% less for their top TL tires, though their respective MSRPs as shown on this site, are pretty comparable or even more. So I wonder if it's a matter of Conti enforcing MAP with all of its authorized US sellers? Which goes a long way to also understanding why Conti is found in just about any LBS, while it's hit or miss with any of the other brands.

PeteHski

Yeah could be a US thing. Here in the UK, they are priced in line with other premium brands. TRs are actually on sale at the moment for £69. RRP for these and similar tyres is around £90 here. The older spec GP5000 can be found for around £50

Eric F 

The obvious answer is that you should just put car tires on your bicycle.

Let us know how that works for you.

Paul Barnard

I asked earlier about what it cost Conti to manufacture their own outstanding Urban Contact Tire compared to the GP5000. Does the GP5000 cost twice as much to manufacture? It sells for twice as much. Of course nobody here really knows the answer. What it boils down to is that Conti sells them for a high price because they can. I seriously doubt if it's because the labor and materials to make "premium quality performance tires" is twice as much as it is to make their urban tires. I am ALL about capitalism, and this is fine with me. That doesn't make it any easier to shell out more for a bicycle tire than it does for a good car tire. I'd encourage Conti to keep testing the upper limit. From what I can see, there are those who are willing to continue going higher. They found their upper limit with me. I have 4 bikes with Conti tires, Conti won't go broke when I skin those bikes with a different brand next time.

In the mid 2000s the price of oil began escalating until it hit what still stands as a record in 2008. The price of boats escalated sharply. People on boating forums defended the price increases saying that the resins in fiberglass come from oil and the oil prices were dramatically driving up the price of manufacturing. I'd ask questions like "how much oil does it take to build a 20' boat." Of course nobody knew the answer. Starting to see a familiar theme? I rather smugly told them that if it were truly the oil prices that were driving most of the increase that we'd see a leveling off or even a price drop when oil prices dropped. When oil prices dropped, boat prices continued to escalate. Why did boat manufacturers continue to increase prices? Because they could.

Same Same. I love capitalism. I am all about corporate profiteering. I am thankful that I have choices.

PeteHski

It comes down mostly to the difference in performance and competition in the market. They will only sell at a premium price if they perform to the highest level and these tyres are a performance benchmark. There are much cheaper tyres if you don’t need the performance and prefer more durability. It sounds like the Urban Contact is ideal for your needs.