Krov9

I'm still five posts (4 after this) away from having full rights to add links and pictures to my posts, so bear with me on this wall of text

You can read about my background situation from my introduction topic, which for reasons stated above, I cannot yet link here. I mainly signed into this forum to document this project and to get assistance should it be needed

I'm quite certain it will be needed. Still feeling kind of clueless about all the technical issues at play here, and simultaneously afraid I'll destroy my components or go bankrupt before I get to finish this "budget" build.

I actually already started to document the "planning" phase of this build on a Finnish forum, which felt rather inactive and I'm feeling too excited about this to wait for replies

So, I recently bought a French Mercier mixte frame, including the fork, a bottom bracket that hardly turns, and a headset.
I paid 55 € for this on eBay plus 23 € for having it shipped from France to Finland.

For some time, now I've admired the "form meets function" aesthetic of the "unisex" mixte frame style. The Mercier seemed to be roughly the right size (51 cm) for me (162 cm), and it was old enough to be well built but new and common enough to not feel like I'm risking to ruin a well preserved piece of antique. And somebody had just bought a beautiful 650B Liberia frameset from right under my nose

The goal here is to build a nice riding bike mostly for short commutes and occasional day trips of hardly ever more than 30 km in one go. I'm always running late for appointments, and accordingly, my riding style is kinda aggressive, so I think I'm going "moderately sporty" with this one, while keeping it fit with city traffic. Did I mention I'm a sucker for aesthetics too?

So let's see what we've got so far:

-a French sized and threaded steel mixte frame with a cotterless JIS taper bottom bracket (115 mm spindle) that might be salvageable. Hub spacings 120 mm rear (reads 119 without a hub) and 96 mm front (supposedly? Reads just 93 mm without a hub)

-a couple of semi trashy parts donor bikes (80's and 90's low end touring and mtb, think Positron gears, chromed steel rims, rust spotted one piece fauber cranks)

-a few odd pairs of old Altenburger and Weinmann brakes

-two different shaped aluminum moustache bars, 15 € a pop

-BLB Pista Vera 46T crankset (it was just so pretty! might have to size down on the chainwheel for a 1x5 though. Sigh) 30 € + 5.90 € shipping

-Brooks B17 saddle, slightly used, black (not yet mine due to logistic issues, but seller promised to keep it on hold for me) 50€

-some other odds and ends of parts

-just ordered the famous SunTour V GT Luxe rear derailleur for 35 € + 10 € mail, wondering if it's "too nice" for this bike and a 1x5/6 setup... :/

-an used Shimano dynamo hub of the dreaded (so I've learnt) water-filler, cone-smasher variety, currently on its way from Austria. 20 € + 14 € shipping (I know!)

​...
All in all, I'm expecting one raging dumpster fire of a learning process.

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Krov9

Now here are some pictures, at last!



Test fitting crankset to see if the chainwheel fits

What's this for? Near the pump "hook" close to the headtube

My dad offered his old Jupiter Touring for a parts donor, but there's hardly anything I'd want to "borrow" from this bike. Huret Allvit gears with one piece cranks. Almost the same colour as the Mercier, though!

What are these brush-like hub shiner thingies called?

Today I disassemled the bottom bracket an set it in a jar of OMS to dissolve the old grease. Still some parts missing...

Velo Mule

Thanks for posting your project. There are several aspects here that we tend to like. European vintage bike, mixte frame and it is a project with lots of decisions to be made. The frame looks great. When it is at this stage, it clean and wax the frame because later there will be too many little things in the way to do the frame completely.

Do you have a fork for the Mercier? Are you going to use the chrome one from the donor bike. It looks like it has a nice curve to the fork so it might be a good match if the headset fits.

The braze-on on the down tube is probably to prevent the downtube shifter from sliding down. This one has a hole in it which is unusual. The frame doesn't look like it came from the time of Aerodynamic shifters. Is it threaded? If it isn't, and you cannot figure out what it was for, I'd drill and tap it for a M5 and put a screw in there so it doesn't collect water.

I like the chain ring. You are teasing all of us here by test fitting it to the other side.

That donor bike will be handy. It has fenders and wheels. I like the wingnuts! Brakes, stem and handlebars are all good if they fit. If you put the shift levers on the downtube, then place then just above that unidentified braze-on to prevent the shifter band from sliding down the tube. If you go with thumb or stem mounted shift levers you will need a cable stop band which will go here the same as the shift lever band.

Keep the pictures coming as this progresses

bikemig 

The tab is to keep the downtube shifters from shifting down but I also am not sure what the indent is for.

I have a Mercier 300 with the same shape tab for the shifters but no indent.

juvela

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Hello Krov9 and welcome to the forum

Oh boy, left hand drive!

These are always fun.

The fact that frame is all metric and exhibits 96/120 spacing makes me suspect it may be a bit earlier than you state.

The pentagonal item you made a photo of is quite common on cycles from France. It is a "no-slide pibb" (also known under other names) intended to keep downtube controls from slipping downward. It has the fringe benefit that the clamp does not need to be so tight.

Frame -

head lugs appear to be a BOCAMA pattern but not shown well enough in image to identify a specific model

seat lug is BOCAMA pattern T

dropouts are NERVEX item nr. 1028G

pump pegs are NERVEX item nr. 847

dynamo mount is NERVEX item nr. 898 AR

chainstay bridge is ESGE plate style (Germany)

laterals bridge (at seat tube) is BOCAMA "Plain"

bottom bracket shell not shown well enough for specific identification

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Velo Mule

Post Script: The fuzzy thing on the hub is indeed intended to shine the hub. Americans used to use a piece of leather with a weight or reflector to keep the loop of leather stationary while the hub spins. They have fallen out of popularity.

merziac

@Krov9

I see no dumpster or fire, this is a fine example to go with, you are right on track from where I sit.

You should be able to find a wide range Suntour freewheel with a 32-36 climbing gear to go with the Suntour RD and 1x

Don't sweat the taper thing, if it fits, lines up and can be torqued properly, you're good to go.

Make it so.

Krov9

Yeah I know, fitting the crank on the wrong side was kind of goofy, but I just wanted to show how it looked like without flipping the frame around in the workstand. Thorough cleaning and waxing will be the next step now that I got the BB out. I bought the frame with the original fork, but I didn't want to screw it on because it came unattached and had some dubious looking bearings. Like I said here, the forkblade decals (French map outline on top of tricolor ribbon) are partially damaged, but I haven't found a replacement yet.

The other side was worse


Just wondering, might there be a type of shifter that would attach to that hole with a screw? Looks like it's drilled but partially clogged with paint. I think I'm mostly going to fit it with roughly era-accurate japanese components, besides maybe wheels and the BLB crankset shown above, which I really like.

I doubt I could utilize many parts from the donor, besides the derailleurs and shifter, which I have understood are not particularly well-performing, and I already splurged on the legendary Suntour V GT Luxe from Cicli.one in Sweden I've not measured, but I'd expect the Jupiter to have 27" (630) wheels.

Oh my, I would by you a drink for this reply if I could! Outstanding bike-wizardry I dated it very roughly by taking note that most 70's Merciers I saw online had an area of the seat tube painted white, had cottered cranks and different font on the logo. This one had a cotterless BB spindle on, but I'm not sure if it's original. I'll take more pics once I get it clean, trying to be careful with the decals and stickers. There's even what I suspect to be the original retailer's sticker in the seat tube! This one on the other hand has very similar color scheme and logos, and seems to be a 1976 300 model. This one is quite similar to mine too, at least to the untrained eye. They were also considering a 650B conversion, but deemed that the bottom bracket would be too close to the ground. Well, I have 165 mm cranks I also measured, that with 650B rims the reach would need to be around 80 mm. Wheh! I have my eyes on a pair of old ultra long reach Shimanos

For some weird reason, I like the way these look The more colorful the better

Thanks for the suggestions! I actually also asked about gearing at Bike Mech since I had to fill my 10 posts to be able to post links and pictures Please go ahead and take the poll

merziac

@Krov9

The Suntour is the go to do all RD, the Timex of the whole group, takes a licking and keeps on ticking.

juvela

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Hello again Krov9,

the pentagonal piece of metal is made to be attached via what is termed in english as "staking" or "pinning"

the depression visible in the centre is not a hole but rather a dimple created by the stake/pin

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cannot recall seeing your fork blade transfers previously

perhaps they were employed on european model bicycles and not those for north america

you might wish to look into the possibiltiy that they could be a dating aid, in the event they were employed for a short time only

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forum member non-fixie built a beautiful cycle for mrs. non-fixie by using a Mercier mixte frameset. you can see the process and result here -

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...under-bay.html

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build planning -

you are thinking things out so thoroughly and carefully am sure you would do outstandingly well with the project without any input from us kibbitzers at the forum


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non-fixie 

Welcome. Krov9 ! Nice to see another Mercier mixte project. That frame looks pretty good. Love the color.

Do check out the Huret Allvit. Americans tend to underrate them, because they came OEM on many cheap bikes during the seventies' bike boom, but there is a reason they were also used by builders like René Herse BITD And more recently by the late Hidetaka Hirose:


Not as slick as the Suntour V, but rugged and dependable, and wonderful to see in operation. I like them.

The other thing on the donor bike I'd be interested in are the fenders. Are they aluminum? If so, they should polish up nicely, and if you can get them to fit they might make a useful and good-looking addition.

Looking forward to future developments!

gesta

Hi and welcome!

Brush like thingy is called hub brush (”napaharja”) and it’s exactly for that: dangling around and keeping hubs free from mud and crud. Gravel specific accessory, I’d say.

650b should be possible and usable option with those 165mm cranks. From my experience, vintage french frames lend them quite well for this kind of activities. Brake reach might be the only thing causing extra spec work if you go to modern calipers (and you probably should, as sub-par braking power and spirited driving style do not mix and match). Tektro 559 has 73mm max reach, and if that does not work, Mafac Raids from vintage side are plenty enough. Dia-compe has also some good long-reach options for brakes.

Donor Jupiter fenders are stainless and appear to be in reasonable condition. Aesthetically they might be an understatement for that bike, but testing that has never hurt anyone.

Hub / frame spacing has another dimension which was not mentioned, and I’d guess original axle diameter is 1mm less than your incoming dynamo has.

If you need any parts (french threaded square taper cartridge bb, headset...), Styleride has been a good source for those in Finland.

Keep us posted on your progress!

Krov9

The front fork measures 93 mm without a hub, but I suppose it was meant to be used with 96 mm hubs and not 91mm. The rear fork on the other hand has a tight 120 mm spacing. I think I'm going to find a 6-cog cluster / cassette that fits there.

There's so much I've not even paid attention yet, I only got the frame last weekend and started to disassemble it for cleaning yesterday. In the head tube, facing the seat tube, is stamped number 78, could this be the year of manufacture?

There's also a serial number in the head badge but I haven't yet found a resource for decoding it.

I actually have two sets of NOS fenders similar to the ones on the Jupiter, but they are too wide to fit between the lower rear fork blades.

With his/her quite similar frame, Flickr user Snapcase concluded that the 75 mm bottom bracket drop was too much for a 650B conversion: https://www.flickr.com/photos/33536892@N00/14792393208

See their CAD mockup here https://www.flickr.com/photos/33536892@N00/14792393208

If I'm not going the 650B route, I'm considering a pair of Dia Compe 610 centerpulls, for which I'd already have matching levers

More pics coming today after I get it clean.
​​​​​​Still missing a stem and a seatpost to get it rollin'

The stem would have to be 22.0 mm thick with standard 1" bar clamp. The seat tube is 25 mm, but came with a plastic sleeve that narrows it down to 24 mm, so I'm not quite sure about the correct seat tube thickness
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Krov9

The drive-side rear "mixte stay" is bent, supposedly to make room for the chain


Not super stoked about the stamped lugs and spot welding. I'm thinking of trying to find a bottle of matching automotive touch up paint, shouldn't be that hard of a color to match

Stronglight BB spindle, M8? 118? 148? I can't decide how it reads. 115 mm long.

The aforementioned issue with the NOS stainless fenders: too wide!

Maybe I could attach them like this...? A bit bulky look anyway

Left BB cup: one or two parts?

Somebody has used lots of force trying to pry the seatpost clamp open :/ I'm not sure if I should try to tidy this up with a file and some touch up paint, given that I find the right hue

Upper headset cup is has taken a hit at some point, maybe recently during transport, maybe earlier. Should I try to find a replacement and swap, or try to froce it back in shape?

Maybe with a piece of threaded rod, some nuts and washers... I have no experience with this. I would have standard sized threaded headset cups, which, according to Sheldon Brown, might fit in the head tube, but this would cause problems with the French sized fork and threads.

Year of production?

Once I've got the BB and headset in order, I think I'm going to do a "test fit" with some components to get it rolling, and upgrade afterwards once I get nicer parts.

juvela

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spindle marking is 118

Verot offered two models for two plateau drive trains: 118 & 120


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marking on backside of laterals bridge is an M (not s W ) indicating the opening is for a metric seat tube of 28.0mm diameter

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78 marking on backside of upper head lug is a statement of the angle in degrees between the head tube socket and the ones for the laterals


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one item not as yet discussed is tubing

mercier built these with high tensile

to feed shopper quest for tubing transfers they named their house brand material "LUXTUB"

here is a transfer that was current in the 1960's:



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a bowing of the drive side lateral for clearance is something frequently seen


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Krov9

The BB spindle is seriously pitted on the other side, and I'm considering replacing it with a generic threadless bottom bracket that can be had for only 15 €. Other option would be to get a set of IRD French thread cups that would allow the use of modern cartridge bearing bottom brackets, but the cups alone would cost twice as much as the threadless option, plus the cartridge itself.

Seems that I've lost the box containing all the nice parts I had set aside waiting for a project like this how usual

Krov9

I think you are correct on everything except this: I measured the seat tube inner diameter to be 25.4 mm

juvela

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of course i.d. is 25.4mm; this is typical for a french hi tensile tubing frame

my mention of a 28.0mm seat tube refers to the o.d.


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Krov9

That makes sense. My seattube had a plastic sleeve/shim inside it... what should the seatpost diameter be, if the tube around it is 1" wide?

Krov9

Some updates:

I found my long lost parts bin! And also a replacement for the pitted Stronglight spindle. I'm kind of undecided whether to just buy some new loose bearings and call it a day or invest 20 € for a Neco french thread cartridge bottom bracket at Velosaloon.


The new one is a little longer than the old one but has same bearing race distance. The length wouldn't be a problem the chairing would have sat very close to the chainstay with the old spindle.

Replaced upper headset cup which was pitted using the DIY method. I found it to be of standard size, and my a friend of my dad's who wrenches a lot happened to have a spare one. Now working with him on replacing the fork crown race which was pitted too, he decided it was best to remove material from the fork crown because we couldn't quite find a match for the old fork crown race I.D.


Next question: wheels wanted! Based on Flickr user Snapcases calculations, I have now basically ditched the 650B conversion idea. I have my eyes on set of a pair of cheap 622 rims, but I haven't been able to locate a fitting 120 mm 5 speed rear hub that would fit my budget :/ Hoping to pay 50 € max. Any suggestions, whether to go new or vintage etc?

Krov9

Choices, choices...

Someone snagged the NOS Dia Compe 610s from right under my nose, so I'm not sure which brakes to get. I have Dia Compe brake levers, and could get some new Dia Compe dual pivots for cheap... but cheaper even would be a set of old Mafac / Weinmann / Comet centerpulls that these bikes originally came with. Thus, I'm facing a substantial question: is this a restoration effort or a retrofit? Truth is, about the only original parts I have are the frame and the fork.

What I'm kind of concerned though, is if there's enough clearence for a dual pivot at the mixte stay brake bridge behind the seat tube? Other people seem to have faced a problem here, so going with centerpulls would be easier in that aspect as well as keep the looks closer to original.

Pic from How Many Bikes? blog. Couldn't they just have used a shorter bolt?


Another open question for now is the choice of rear hub: there seem to be very few ones made today with 120mm spacing and room for a 5-speed cassette / freewheel assembly :/ at least at my preferred price point.

Unless it's listed wrong, this Miche Team Magnum seems to fit the description, but unfortunately it comes with 32 holes as opposed to the 36 in the Shimano dyno front hub I already paid too much for. I could, of course, go with an old Michelin, Gipiemme etc. hub, but then the French freewheel thread would restrict me to using old Maillard freewheels. What do you think of this?

I think that for now I'll pack the original BB cups with the replacement spindle and some new bearings and see how it rolls, and maybe switch to cartridge later on.

I've got a SR stem that's a little shy of 22,0 mm in diameter, but I'm not too fond if it's plain looks and stamped on logo. I think I'll go with a stem mounted shifter since I've only got an RD, so that would hide the logo. The old Pivo, Kiprim etc. have much nicer looks.

I'll post more pictures of other parts I'm planning to use later on.

I didn't want to disassemble my dad's old bike for temporary substitute parts, so will take this project back home dissassembled, not rollin' like I hoped I would.

There's paint missing from some spots, mainly at the seat tube clamps which was bent seemingly from a crude attempt at seatpost removal. I think I'll just touch up these spots with some clear coat to prevent rusting. I don't feel confident to patch-paint over the existing paint.

sd5782 

If you ever come across a Suntour VXs rear derailleur you would be pleased. It is a mid length size on the pulley spacing and shifts nicer than my Vgt. I have one on a 1X6 and another even shifting a 32t rear. The VX is just a bit nicer, and that mid cage length is very useful on the rd but maxes out with chain wrap at 26-28 teeth.

Krov9

I think I just saw one for sale somewhere but can't remember where... Besides, I already paid for a VX GT Luxe so we'll see how that goes first What kind of shifter would you pair it with?

So, I asked this one guy's help with crown race installation and while I wasn't around, without asking me, he decided to file off some material from the crown so that the race would fit


It fits with no play but loose enough that you can pry it off with fingers... I'm kinda concerned whether the race will be centered after this "operation" :S

Some parts:


Two handlebar alternatives, the one on the right is from Pelago.

A front rack that needs some rust removal and shining. This is a whole lot bulkier and heavier than the ones the French usually fitted their randonneurs with, so I'm not sure if it'll stay

BLB Pista Vera crankset and a thin 70's aluminum chainguard. Plenty of Finnish bikes of the era had similar, so I'm not sure of the make. Most likely from a "Nopsa". I plan on polishing this if the material thickness allows


Edit: Speaking of Suntour RD's, I wonder what model this is. I tried contacting the seller but they didn't answer.

sd5782 

Friction shifting the rear should give you plenty of options. The Suntour ratchets have a very nice light feel and come in many location configurations. I kinda liked the stem mounted ones and was looking to see if they made one with just a one sided mount for the 1X setup but didn’t see one.

capnjonny 

What a great project. What ever you do finally it is going to be fantastic. I am working on a vintage Gitane Mixte at the moment and am making some of the same decisions. If it were me I would go with the Mafac brakes. They are very French and are one of the best brakes out there. They can fit either 27" or 700c wheels and with Kool Stop pads can stop the bike just fine. Also, unlike dual pivots, they don't require you to drill out the back side of the fork. They are easy to polish if you are in to that and not really hard to set up . 700 c aluminum rims are the way to go. Vintage Araya rims are fine , Super Champions and Mavics are great as well. If you have the money new wheels will not need cleaning or truing. Equally important are the hubs. Newer sealed bearing hubs like the Shimano Ultegra ones on my current build spin forever. So do Campi hubs. When you disassemble them you can see the difference. I have a set of Kenda 700 x 32cream colored tires on my build and they are classy. I love Suntour derailleurs and the GT won't let you down but the thing weighs a ton. If you can find them the cyclone is one of the best derailleurs ever made according to Saint Sheldon. For shifters my vote is for thumbies. Suntour made a beutiful all metal thumb shifter back in the day that would be perfect for friction shifting. I generally use friction because it is foolproof and with a friction thumbie it is very easy to get precise shifts without taking your hands off the bars or your eyes off the traffic. Also you can use spiral wound cable covers for everything.