eddiepliers2

Hey all, I don't post here much as i would like to since I have my own shop and a 9-5 that I work at. On that I would like to do more work with wheelbuilds and as we all know, time is money. I'm looking to create a lacing jig based off of the now defunct Noble Wheels lacing jig at a cheaper pricepoint with some more additions and improvements over the Noble design,

I think my biggest question is "Who else is interested?" Would this be a one-off project for me or would this be an item that can be sold? I have a bunch of other items in the pipeline of additive manufacturing/CNC machining.

Thanks a lot in advance all!

mtbikerjohn 

There are a couple of wheel building/sales groups on Facebook that might be a better place to ask.. Good luck..John

BTinNYC 

If I counted 'wheels built per week', instead of per year, I'd definitely get a jig, even at $450. It would really speed the process, but I doubt us enthusiastic amateurs is your market.

A Paceline post with similar idea:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=235811

Dan Burkhart 

I built my own lacing jig which I find very useful for building with internal nipples, straight pull spokes and rims with no nipple access holes.
Most of the building I do these days fall into one of those categories.
For standard builds with J bend spokes and standard nipples I find lacing without the jig to be just as fast and convenient.

wheelreason

No.

FBinNY 

It would need meaningful features that seriously save time, plus be dirt cheap.

FWIW anyone can improvise something with roughly the same functionality as the $450 unit you referenced with a spindle and 3 soup cans.

For my part, it would be counterproductive because I lace fastest with the wheel vertical.

Dan Burkhart 

Agree with this for lacing with J bend spokes and standard nipples but as I posted above, for building with internal nipples, straight pull spokes, rims with no nipple access holes or when nipple washers are necessary a jig is indispensable.

Alan K

No!
My guess is that it would not be worthwhile to pay hundreds of $ for an individual who laces wheels only for himself/herself and occasionally for a friend or two who are bicycling enthusiasts. That money would be better utilized for buying higher quality components.

FBinNY 

Not looking to argue the need for a jig. The OP asked for opinions and interest in a possible purchase, and that's what I posted.

In any case, anyone who builds enough wheels to justify shelling out dough for a jig, has enough experience to decide for himself.

eddiepliers2

John, thanks for the heads up!

I do lace my wheels vertical for the most part now, but I feel I would have more speed if I had some kind of a jig to have everything together, along with more even tensioning due to not having gravity pulling down.

Dan Burkhart , that's a neat and functional setup! I like that a lot, but I would also want something that is a bit more portable.

That's the thing, I usually build about 2/3 sets a month, so would I benefit in saving time? I think so, but then there would be another item I would do a deep dive to fix another problem..

wheelreason

Yeah, back in the 80s I worked with a guy at a bike shop in LI who had previously built wheels for Schwinn full time, the owners would keep us 2 on for the winter, just to keep us happy for the season, cause it got crazy busy in the spring. He built basic wheels as busy work, and he laced, tensioned and trued them in 15-20 minutes each, while carrying on a conversation, and not rushing at all, he'd lace one set (1/4 the spokes) on one side free hand, then he'd place it on the stand, and lace the rest, then finish it there. I mostly do it all vertical sitting on a stool. Phil at R&A was also very good and efficient.

pdlamb

Sounds like a cool stormy winter day in the shop project. I'd guess a woodworker could duplicate the functionality with $100-$150 of parts (plywood has gone up crazy expensive!) with lots of rollers, slots, and wingnuts for adjustability. I don't have any idea what it would cost in metal, just more.

OK, but what about buying one for a shop? Then it becomes a cost-benefit analysis. If a builder could save 20 minutes per wheel lacing @$50/hr, the payback would only take 30 wheels -- sounds pretty reasonable. Unless you're talking about wheelreason's builder, who might only save 5 minutes per wheelset. 100 wheelsets to pay back the cost sounds like expensive speculation. I'm not sure what small bike business could afford a bet like that.

So, OP (eddiepliers2), what's your best guess at how much this improved gadget is going to cost, and how much time will it save an experienced wheel builder? I couldn't find any projections of the latter for the Noble device, which may be why they're not being made any more.

FBinNY 

FWIW, I divide wheelbuilding into 4 tasks: loading spokes in hub, lacing, pre-tightening, aligning (including setting elbows, dishing, stress relieving, etc.)

Of those, lacing is about the quickest, at about 3-5 minutes. (goes faster when focused, slower when not). That's for typical wheels with J-bend spokes & plain vanilla rims.

So here's the catch 22. Someone building few wheels might save time, but can't justify the cost. someone experienced and efficient, can't save enough time to matter.

ScottCommutes

The proverbial tool that the beginner can't afford and the real pro doesn't bother with. As I was thinking about this, I came up with precious few examples where a pro might substitute pure skill for an expensive tool. Usually, a pro passes on a tool because he has even better tools.

pdlamb

Aagh, somebody shoot me now! I've turned into one of those old farts who yammers on endlessly about how you get there, without describing where you end up!

Thanks for wrapping my thoughts up so neatly (tied up with a bow!).

wheelreason

Another thing from a shop's point of view, if we wanted or needed something like that (or any other type of jig) we'd just make it, We have a lot of tools and know how after all.

FBinNY 

That depends more on the tool. So many of the tools folks talk about here on BF don't actually improve the job or save time for a skilled mechanic. You're right that sometimes serious mechanics often have better tools, but what they have the most of is better skills. Also, many of us (them) have made their own time savers.

For example, 50+ years ago as I started building more varied wheels, moving away from the std. 36/36 pairs, spoke length calculations became problematic. This was long before the internet, and even before cheap and convenient computers. So, after a few frustrating mis-estimates, I devised my own analog spoke length calculator. I still use it to this day because it's so fast, easy and reliable.

RidingTi

I am late to this post, but I would be interested in a lacing jig. Thanks.

Trakhak

The idea is certainly appealing, but as FBinNY's post pointed out above, lacing a wheel, without or without a jig, takes substantially less time than any other phase of wheelbuilding. A slow lacing process might take 4 or even 5 minutes at the most, and a quick lacing job might take 2 or 3 minutes. At most, a lacing jig would save maybe a minute, maybe two. Not worth it unless you're building wheels for a living, if then.

RidingTi

Thanks for the input. I agree that it is difficult to justify based on time saved.

That said, I have a penchant for nice tools and an aversion to money. I realize that I am an edge case, but it will be worth it to me.

All the best!