3alarmer 

https://archive.is/PCPT0
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/03/business/vanmoof-bankruptcy-ebikes.html?searchResultPosition=1

SkinGriz

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

LV2TNDM

Over the years, I've criticized the move toward electronic shifting and electronics in general on bicycles. The high-tech industry quickly learned that sales are easily boosted when one heartily embraces planned obsolescence. That we've been convinced that a computer, printer, router or phone becomes a brick after about six years is unfortunate. But we sure accepted this aspect of "high-tech." Problem is, other industries are quickly seeing the profitability in this. The auto industry cannot act fast enough adopting this model. Whereas before people kept cars 10, 20 or 30 years, electronics will make this all but impossible. If Ford and Chevy could make your F150 or Tahoe a "brick" after about 10 years, they will sell WAY MORE motor vehicles!

So when I look at my 1992 custom painted hard tail, I love knowing I can pedal it today as I did 31 years ago. I NEVER have to fear the dreaded "Firmware Not Supported" that today's bikes will display soon.

OH and remember when we were concerned about run-away consumerism? And how we realized a throw-away society will kill us? Oops!

TiHabanero

Electronic shifting is fabulous and from what I can tell will not require frequent updates, in fact the old Sram e-tap there are guys running it without any firmware updates needed. An e-bike that has all the software garbage like the Van Moots bike that requires updates on a regular basis is a recipe for disaster at some point. If MS and Apple are unable and unwilling to maintain their older legacy OS how is it possible for a small e-bike company to be able to do it long term? I'm sure online communities will come up with something to compensate for the lack of support, but it will be a hassle to take advantage of that kind of thing for the majority of users that just want a bike to work and ride. Disposable product in my eyes.

big john

According to that article there is a buyer for the company. If that doesn't work some bright, enterprising Dutchman will come up with something, if there's money to be made.
And people keep their cars now longer than ever.

SurferRosa

nsfw.

Maelochs

Are those clouds? Deep breaths everyone ... we want to yell Really Loudly!

3alarmer 

.
...are repairability and proprietary parts support strictly an age related concern ? I did not know that, but it makes a lot of sense. Younger people will just turn them into fixies.

SkinGriz

Imagine owning a car that needs software updates just to drive it. Then the company goes bankrupt.

SkinGriz

I think it’s an odd looking bike.

I like the simple aesthetics of a fixed gear bike. The VanMoof will be the worst of both worlds.

I think the Urban Racer is a beautiful bike.

https://theradavist.com/introducing-...n-urban-racer/

base2 

I've wanted a Van Moofs since my last trip to the Netherlands in ~2018. The problem was shortly there after they stopped selling an analogue model. Electric only. So I lost interest & moved on.

When I returned to Amsterdam and surrounding area as far as The Hague and Utrecht in Late June through early July this year, I saw many Van Moofs scattered about. The ability to make it worthless with a simple flip of a thumb on an app was something I witnessed more than once. Each time was sort of a "Hey, that's neat" sort of moment.

Anyway, I saw an unkempt man on a Van Moof that had been gutted of anything electronic. It appeared to my eye on the tram as I sped away to be equipped with what looked like a standard square taper BB. The elegance & clean lines is a little lost when a bike is made from straight hollow gaping tubes devoid of anything but air and lonely holes crying for 40lux LED's. Even though the bike was very probably stolen, I thought to myself: "That man is a genius. They can't recover a bike that doesn't have a locator ping to track."

They'll probably all end up this way.
Glad I missed out.

big john

You mean like a subscription? Can't imagine that, though some of them are asking for monthly subscriptions to access certain features.

Atlas Shrugged

Schadenfreude is a combination of the German nouns Schaden, meaning "damage" or "harm," and Freude, meaning "joy." So it makes sense that schadenfreude means joy over some harm or misfortune suffered by another.

UniChris

FYI that has been cars for quite some time now.

"rolling computer network" would be a fairly accurate description

Some recalls are in fact for firmware updates, or the equivalent as a module swap. Increasingly though they want to just push them over the air - which is both convenient, and yes, very creepy.

The difference is that car companies are generally huge in a way that they have a legacy even through any restructuring. Though there have been boutique brands. The fate of a modern software-based car from a boutique brand that folded could indeed be a lot like the Van Moof case.

Atlas Shrugged

Much like the classic doomsday cult predicting imminent end of the world your forecast seems about as likely to occur. Millions of people have moved on with no regrets and enjoying what a modern bike can bring while some stand by and wish for the collapse which never comes.

Comparing what can be accomplished on a modern mountain bike and some vintage hard tail is night and day. Go to any location where active mountain biking occurs and look what people are accomplishing. Now if your interest is a gravel bike path of course a vintage bike is more than adequate but a modern gravel would be better.

Speaking of consumerism you seem to listing quite a bike collection yourself!

3alarmer 

...GM also did this one year. I owned and maintained a GM V6 Malibu for a while. Late 70's and early 80's were not the highest quality years for GM. The ignition system you mention was about the only thing I never had to fix on that Malibu.

We can pretend that proprietary parts and technology on a bicycle are not a problem. I'm a big fan of progress as well. But unless some other company decides to buy the remains of Van Moof out of bankruptcy, I don't see making the various proprietary parts and providing tech support for them as a cash cow.


As stated in the linked article, the majority of repairs in their home city and country are not getting done. Acknowledging this is not schadenfreude. I feel badly both for the employees and the customers, not joy at this failure in the marketplace. It's a drag when this constant barrage of "old guys just don't get progress" intrudes on every thread here. I am not a stranger to technology, but I do like to be able to fix my own stuff. I can do some workarounds, but there are limits to what I can fix without parts.

wolfchild

A bicycle that requires regular software updates just so you can continue to ride it ??? ....What kind of nonsense is this ?

georges1

A nice 1997 Kona Explosif or a 1997 M2 Sworks or 1999 Trek ZR9000 where before all cross country bikes very efficient back in their days and are still now due to their agressive and race proven geometry, they can easily do what some modern bikes do. A lot of big names started to manufacture their frames in Taiwan for cost cutting reasons in the late 2000's however there are a few bike brands made in the US Bikes Made in the USA . Where Are Trek Bikes Made? , Where Are Cannondale Bikes Made? and Where Are Schwinn Bikes Made? are just an example that you pay a lot for a brand's name and with these companies you used to have a lifetime warranty on the frame, is it the case still now I dont know. As for electronic shifting , what is your back up plan when your battery is dead and that you are stuck in a gear and that you can't shift ??? A high end vintage moutain bike frame with the right upgrades on wheels and drivetrain can still be a versatile and responsive bike as well as be compared favorably with a modern bike. I rarely encounter MTB riders using electronic shifting.

SkinGriz

Cylinder deactivation is just asking for problems to gain an irrelevant increase in MPG.

Or put another way. If the engine needs to be replaced 10/20/50k miles sooner because of cylinder deactivation, was it worth it?

Honda also had issues with it in their 3.5s.

wolfchild

My rigid fork mountain bikes which aren't even vintage are serving me very well for the type of singletrack trail riding that I do and I am happy with them. I don't need a modern full suspension bike because I have absolutely no desire to participate in any events or rides which involve all kinds of crazy dangerous stunts which can cause crippling injuries or kill you.

wolfchild

Unrealistic demands from EPA and your government for stricter emission controls on vehicles is what's causing a lot of modern engines to have problems. The complexity of modern vehicles is just getting too much, a home mechanic can't even work on them anymore.

base2 

...or you can understand that littering your waste all about the place is no longer acceptable as it negatively affects everyone.

Also define: "problems." because I'm sure it's somehow the governments fault the manufacturer of faulty products makes them poorly that they go some hundred thousand miles before needing a recommended spark plug change, a hundred and fifty thousand before an O2 sensor and a serpentine belt...What is so complex? That you don't understand a catalytic converter? When was the last time anyone had to mess with one of those? Is a once in 10,000 mile oil change really depriving you of that once coveted Saturday driveway appointment? You can still do that at home, you know.

If you are going to make claims about boogymen affecting your life, at least you should at least quantify a harm suffered.

I like that home mechanics no longer even have a need to work on their cars every weekend and that such work like headers, higher flow heads, higher compression pistons, after market EFI controllers, turbos, etc...that a serious race enthusiast would tear into their car to upgrade is somehow magically installed right from the factory. Yet, there is still the timeless Summit catalog if I really needed to somehow find some thing that needed more "oomph." Yukon gear still sells "posi" differentials, ring & pinions for that coveted 0-60 time. (I'm a fan of Detroit Lockers, personally.)

I like that points & condensers and pointing a strobe down the narrow path 1/4 inch from spinning blades of death to look at the crank shaft with a trigger hooked to number one plug wire has gone the way of the dodo. A "tune" today largely consists of a $16 bluetooth OBDII dongle and an app or a hand held device with a cord. Making race day/grocery day changes is now easier than ever. My weekend freedom is increased. My need to ask more from a vehicle is decreased.

It's easy to blame the boogy man and yearn for the way it used to be when the real reason you can't see how great things are is you choose not to learn new things. Is the fact that a modern vehicle asks nothing from you really the problem?

TiHabanero

I work at a Toyota dealership and rest assured a home mechanic can still work on an engine or the interior or suspension, etc. What a home mechanic typically cannot do is the diagnosis of electronic issues or adjustments, particularly under the hood. It requires software that is not available to the public at large. I can see E-bikes going down this same road and as we see with Van Moot, all is moot in the end.

CAT7RDR

It seems everything new is planned to fail.
My Dyson vacuum has an interior hose that failed because of a thin plastic connector breaking.
I ordered the replacement part and figured this would be a one minute fix.
Reviewed several YouTube videos and I would have to perform a complete disassembly of the suction unit to replace the part.
Took out two thin zip ties and was able to clamp the hose tight in two minutes.
I can see why people would just say FI and purchase a new vacuum or take it to a shop.
Just not worth the hassle.

big john

Cars get updates. If they don't get the update they don't stop running.