part 5...
09-24-10, 09:32 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
part 5...
It started with painting bike lanes on the roads of downtown but last year, the city upped the ante and took away a lane on the Burrard Street Bridge from motorists to give to cyclists and barricaded it so drivers wouldn't drive in it.
It worked so well the city did the same thing on another bridge.
Then this summer, the city did the same thing on a downtown road and now there at it again with another road so there will be segregated access to the city center from the north/south/east/west.
Divided they ride
by Nancy Macdonald, Macleans.ca
Separated bike lanes are every cyclist’s dream. And when a single weekend in May left five cyclists dead in a series of accidents in Ontario and Quebec, many Canadians—non-cyclists, too—alighted on the idea.
Vancouver is going a long way toward bringing the two groups together by keeping them apart: it’s creating a protected bike network that makes it safer and easier to cycle the city core. This fall, the city is adding a two-way, bikes-only, separated roadway along Hornby Street, running north-south through the downtown.
It joins another separated bike route that bisects the city east-west along Dunsmuir Street. They meet new, protected bike lanes on two of the busiest downtown entry points: the Burrard Street bridge and the Dunsmuir viaduct. By late fall, cyclists will be able to enter and ride downtown without having to wrangle for space with a car—and vice versa. The network went up over the past 12 months, as city engineers quietly stole a lane (sometimes two) from drivers with every new leg.
The rationale is simple: painted lanes just don’t work. Some cars ignore them, or double-park in them; taxis idle in them; and trucks use them to unload. Barriers need not be expensive or concrete eyesores. Potted plants and bike racks separate bikes from cars on Dunsmuir. That’s good enough for real estate developer Luke Harrison, who began riding his elegant, cherry-red city bike to work one day a week this summer. He’s just the type of new rider Vancouver is hoping to lure from cars, says city transportation director Jerry Dobrovolny. Vancouver aims to more than double its current share of commuting trips made by bike to 10 per cent. That would be a North American high, although nowhere near the one-third share seen in bike-mad European cities like Amsterdam, which is currently building a 10,000-bike parking garage at Amsterdam Centraal, its main train station.
In Copenhagen, which already offers residents free public bikes, separate lanes and signal systems, planners are hard at work on a system of bike highways: as many as 15 wide, segregated routes connecting the suburbs to the Danish capital. Designs for the US$47-million network call for bike service stations, with air pumps and tools for quick fixes, and coordinated traffic lighting. (When cyclists in Copenhagen maintain speeds of 20 km per hour, lights are timed so they’ll hit green all the way into the city centre, a system known as the “green wave.”) And Europe isn’t going it alone. Two years ago, in the car-crazed U.S., a “Bicycle Routes Corridor Plan” received the official nod from an association of state-highway officials, a small yet significant step toward creating a network of American bike highways. In February, Portland, Ore., which has seen bike use quadruple in the past decade, okayed a $613-million long-term cycling plan, which would see 1,095 km of new bikeways added in the next two decades.
When it comes to auto infrastructure, Vancouver planners have long worked on a kind of reverse-Field of Dreams approach: if you don’t build it, they won’t come. That means saying no to new bridges and roadway expansions for cars, giving precedence, instead, to pedestrians, cyclists and transit users (in that order). It is working. According to a 2007 study Vancouver has, since 1997, seen its population increase by 27 per cent, and jobs by 18 per cent, yet 10 per cent fewer cars are entering the city than a decade ago.
Pedestrian trips have risen by 44 per cent, cycling by 180 per cent, and transit use by 50 per cent. But even Dobrovolny admits the push is more geography than environment. Calgary this ain’t. The core is already built-out, and hemmed in by water on three sides—“we can’t widen the road without either tearing down buildings, or ripping out sidewalks.”
Taking a lane from the car to give to the bike is a bold move, but the howling has subsided. In a glimpse of the current zeitgest, the tech site Gizmodo recently featured a fantastical alternative designed by architect Martin Angelov: the Kolelinia, a suspended aerial bike lane made of steel cables—essentially a tightrope for bikes—allows cyclists to safely ride three metres above traffic. In comparison, a bike lane separated by some planters doesn’t seem far-fetched at all.
It worked so well the city did the same thing on another bridge.
Then this summer, the city did the same thing on a downtown road and now there at it again with another road so there will be segregated access to the city center from the north/south/east/west.
Divided they ride
by Nancy Macdonald, Macleans.ca
Separated bike lanes are every cyclist’s dream. And when a single weekend in May left five cyclists dead in a series of accidents in Ontario and Quebec, many Canadians—non-cyclists, too—alighted on the idea.
Vancouver is going a long way toward bringing the two groups together by keeping them apart: it’s creating a protected bike network that makes it safer and easier to cycle the city core. This fall, the city is adding a two-way, bikes-only, separated roadway along Hornby Street, running north-south through the downtown.
It joins another separated bike route that bisects the city east-west along Dunsmuir Street. They meet new, protected bike lanes on two of the busiest downtown entry points: the Burrard Street bridge and the Dunsmuir viaduct. By late fall, cyclists will be able to enter and ride downtown without having to wrangle for space with a car—and vice versa. The network went up over the past 12 months, as city engineers quietly stole a lane (sometimes two) from drivers with every new leg.
The rationale is simple: painted lanes just don’t work. Some cars ignore them, or double-park in them; taxis idle in them; and trucks use them to unload. Barriers need not be expensive or concrete eyesores. Potted plants and bike racks separate bikes from cars on Dunsmuir. That’s good enough for real estate developer Luke Harrison, who began riding his elegant, cherry-red city bike to work one day a week this summer. He’s just the type of new rider Vancouver is hoping to lure from cars, says city transportation director Jerry Dobrovolny. Vancouver aims to more than double its current share of commuting trips made by bike to 10 per cent. That would be a North American high, although nowhere near the one-third share seen in bike-mad European cities like Amsterdam, which is currently building a 10,000-bike parking garage at Amsterdam Centraal, its main train station.
In Copenhagen, which already offers residents free public bikes, separate lanes and signal systems, planners are hard at work on a system of bike highways: as many as 15 wide, segregated routes connecting the suburbs to the Danish capital. Designs for the US$47-million network call for bike service stations, with air pumps and tools for quick fixes, and coordinated traffic lighting. (When cyclists in Copenhagen maintain speeds of 20 km per hour, lights are timed so they’ll hit green all the way into the city centre, a system known as the “green wave.”) And Europe isn’t going it alone. Two years ago, in the car-crazed U.S., a “Bicycle Routes Corridor Plan” received the official nod from an association of state-highway officials, a small yet significant step toward creating a network of American bike highways. In February, Portland, Ore., which has seen bike use quadruple in the past decade, okayed a $613-million long-term cycling plan, which would see 1,095 km of new bikeways added in the next two decades.
When it comes to auto infrastructure, Vancouver planners have long worked on a kind of reverse-Field of Dreams approach: if you don’t build it, they won’t come. That means saying no to new bridges and roadway expansions for cars, giving precedence, instead, to pedestrians, cyclists and transit users (in that order). It is working. According to a 2007 study Vancouver has, since 1997, seen its population increase by 27 per cent, and jobs by 18 per cent, yet 10 per cent fewer cars are entering the city than a decade ago.
Pedestrian trips have risen by 44 per cent, cycling by 180 per cent, and transit use by 50 per cent. But even Dobrovolny admits the push is more geography than environment. Calgary this ain’t. The core is already built-out, and hemmed in by water on three sides—“we can’t widen the road without either tearing down buildings, or ripping out sidewalks.”
Taking a lane from the car to give to the bike is a bold move, but the howling has subsided. In a glimpse of the current zeitgest, the tech site Gizmodo recently featured a fantastical alternative designed by architect Martin Angelov: the Kolelinia, a suspended aerial bike lane made of steel cables—essentially a tightrope for bikes—allows cyclists to safely ride three metres above traffic. In comparison, a bike lane separated by some planters doesn’t seem far-fetched at all.
Last edited by closetbiker; 09-24-10 at 12:43 PM.
09-24-10, 10:21 AM
#2
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nice. good to see some cities in North America are beginning to understand urban transportation.
(you should edit that post, format it correctly, and give credit to Nancy and the newspaper versus just copying someone elses' column verbatim into the forum, you know.....)
(you should edit that post, format it correctly, and give credit to Nancy and the newspaper versus just copying someone elses' column verbatim into the forum, you know.....)
Last edited by Bekologist; 09-24-10 at 10:24 AM.
09-24-10, 10:24 AM
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The rationale is simple: painted lanes just don’t work. Some cars ignore them, or double-park in them; taxis idle in them; and trucks use them to unload. Barriers need not be expensive or concrete eyesores. Potted plants and bike racks separate bikes from cars on Dunsmuir. That’s good enough for real estate developer Luke Harrison, who began riding his elegant, cherry-red city bike to work one day a week this summer. He’s just the type of new rider Vancouver is hoping to lure from cars, says city transportation director Jerry Dobrovolny.
But folks like John Forester tell us that "facilities" don't encourage more cycling. This is obviously some sort of "anti-motoring" ploy.
The evidence is clear, Vancouver is "anti-motoring."
When it comes to auto infrastructure, Vancouver planners have long worked on a kind of reverse-Field of Dreams approach: if you don’t build it, they won’t come. That means saying no to new bridges and roadway expansions for cars, giving precedence, instead, to pedestrians, cyclists and transit users (in that order). It is working. According to a 2007 study Vancouver has, since 1997, seen its population increase by 27 per cent, and jobs by 18 per cent, yet 10 per cent fewer cars are entering the city than a decade ago.
Vancouver aims to more than double its current share of commuting trips made by bike to 10 per cent.
09-24-10, 12:00 PM
#5
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there a a host of interventions to reduce right hook potential along roads with cycletrack infrastructure.
Stricter traffic enforcement, lowering speed limits, greater driver education, signage, painted emphasis areas, rechannelized road networks to reduce right turns across cycletracks, bicyclist signals and advanced stop lines some of the tools in the toolbox.
of course, only select transportation corridors would benefit from cycletracks or other bicycle specific interventions; the majority of roads in a North American community that chooses to facilitate bicycling with cycletracks will likely remain unmodified, low volume streets with no bicycle specificity warranted.
Stricter traffic enforcement, lowering speed limits, greater driver education, signage, painted emphasis areas, rechannelized road networks to reduce right turns across cycletracks, bicyclist signals and advanced stop lines some of the tools in the toolbox.
of course, only select transportation corridors would benefit from cycletracks or other bicycle specific interventions; the majority of roads in a North American community that chooses to facilitate bicycling with cycletracks will likely remain unmodified, low volume streets with no bicycle specificity warranted.
09-24-10, 12:31 PM
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there a a host of interventions to reduce right hook potential along roads with cycletrack infrastructure.
Stricter traffic enforcement, lowering speed limits, greater driver education, signage, painted emphasis areas, rechannelized road networks to reduce right turns across cycletracks, bicyclist signals and advanced stop lines some of the tools in the toolbox.
of course, only select transportation corridors would benefit from cycletracks or other bicycle specific interventions; the majority of roads in a North American community that chooses to facilitate bicycling with cycletracks will likely remain unmodified, low volume streets with no bicycle specificity warranted.
Stricter traffic enforcement, lowering speed limits, greater driver education, signage, painted emphasis areas, rechannelized road networks to reduce right turns across cycletracks, bicyclist signals and advanced stop lines some of the tools in the toolbox.
of course, only select transportation corridors would benefit from cycletracks or other bicycle specific interventions; the majority of roads in a North American community that chooses to facilitate bicycling with cycletracks will likely remain unmodified, low volume streets with no bicycle specificity warranted.
Please explain how re-channelization reduces right and/or left hooks. I would also like to see a cite to support that claim.
09-24-10, 12:38 PM
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Reducing places where right turns are allowed reduces right hook potential along a roadway.
QED.
Myrridin should read the article about Vancouver bicycling and the stakeholders intent, instead of just going all reactionary militant motorist.
Myrridin apparently has no interest in seeing more people on bicycles utilizing them for daily transport.
QED.
Myrridin should read the article about Vancouver bicycling and the stakeholders intent, instead of just going all reactionary militant motorist.
Myrridin apparently has no interest in seeing more people on bicycles utilizing them for daily transport.
Last edited by Bekologist; 09-24-10 at 12:44 PM.
09-24-10, 01:15 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
the city has a video on how motorists should handle right turns, I just can't find it right now.
You should have heard the howls of protest when they took away a lane on the BSB and of course the sky never fell.
There was a similar howl when Dunsmuir did the same thing and yet again, traffic chaos did not ensue.
Now there's much protest over the Hornby Street lane and i'd be very surprised to find it won't end up as more of the same.
The other morning I saw a bet laid out by copenhaganize.com about any city hitting the 10% goal with a MHL
PUT YOUR MONEY ON THE TABLE...
And here's a bet from Copenhagenize. There will never be a city that promotes (or legislates) bicycle helmets that will ever reach double digit modal share for bicycles.
Any takers?
We'll see what happens with our efforts and MHL here.
The City is running a poll on if we should Repeal mandatory bike helmet legislation
I voted
You should have heard the howls of protest when they took away a lane on the BSB and of course the sky never fell.
There was a similar howl when Dunsmuir did the same thing and yet again, traffic chaos did not ensue.
Now there's much protest over the Hornby Street lane and i'd be very surprised to find it won't end up as more of the same.
The other morning I saw a bet laid out by copenhaganize.com about any city hitting the 10% goal with a MHL
PUT YOUR MONEY ON THE TABLE...
And here's a bet from Copenhagenize. There will never be a city that promotes (or legislates) bicycle helmets that will ever reach double digit modal share for bicycles.
Any takers?
We'll see what happens with our efforts and MHL here.
The City is running a poll on if we should Repeal mandatory bike helmet legislation
I voted
Last edited by closetbiker; 10-28-10 at 07:58 PM.
09-24-10, 02:54 PM
#9
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* But this will slow traffic to a crawl.
* Residents have a right to get from point A to point B, and this will make it all but impossible.
* We'll have to change the city's name to Gridlock!
* Property values will plummet.
* We'll become a third-world country.
* Humans will devolve into a blind race of cannibals living deep under the ground, coming up to the surface at night to snatch children and turn them into stew.
That's pretty much what people have been saying about the road diets in Seattle.
09-24-10, 03:59 PM
#10
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Let me guess:
* But this will slow traffic to a crawl.
* Residents have a right to get from point A to point B, and this will make it all but impossible.
* We'll have to change the city's name to Gridlock!
* Property values will plummet.
* We'll become a third-world country.
* Humans will devolve into a blind race of cannibals living deep under the ground, coming up to the surface at night to snatch children and turn them into stew.
That's pretty much what people have been saying about the road diets in Seattle.
* But this will slow traffic to a crawl.
* Residents have a right to get from point A to point B, and this will make it all but impossible.
* We'll have to change the city's name to Gridlock!
* Property values will plummet.
* We'll become a third-world country.
* Humans will devolve into a blind race of cannibals living deep under the ground, coming up to the surface at night to snatch children and turn them into stew.
That's pretty much what people have been saying about the road diets in Seattle.
Business say they will lose customers if they lose the parking spots in front of their businesses.
Because of new bus route patterns, 161 new parking spaces have been made available on the next street over.
09-24-10, 04:10 PM
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How well did it work? Any actual figures?
Is there counting of bicycle numbers on alternate routes to allow a determination as to whether cyclists are just channelled away from other routes?
Not a great article due to the lack of actual data.
Is there counting of bicycle numbers on alternate routes to allow a determination as to whether cyclists are just channelled away from other routes?
Not a great article due to the lack of actual data.
09-25-10, 09:50 AM
#12
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The City of Vancouver has details, but the article did mention that cycling has increased by 180 per cent over the last 10 years.
As you'd imagine, with the change in traffic dynamic and money invested, the projects are being followed quite closely.
There are more than a few critics and commentary has been running non-stop for over a year.
There's a media request to not publicize until the news conference, but the ECF is going to be having it's Velo-City conference in Vancouver next year. It'll be only the second time it has been held outside of Europe (the other time it was in Perth). You can bet these lanes and our helmet law will be on the discussion board
As you'd imagine, with the change in traffic dynamic and money invested, the projects are being followed quite closely.
There are more than a few critics and commentary has been running non-stop for over a year.
There's a media request to not publicize until the news conference, but the ECF is going to be having it's Velo-City conference in Vancouver next year. It'll be only the second time it has been held outside of Europe (the other time it was in Perth). You can bet these lanes and our helmet law will be on the discussion board
Last edited by closetbiker; 09-25-10 at 01:58 PM.
09-25-10, 12:01 PM
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While I agree that painted lanes don't work, segregation is not a general solution either. Why? For the same reason it didn't work as a way of solving racism - you simply cannot create a system where every space that people need to be is segregated. It ends up costing twice as much to solve a problem that can be better solved by simply incentivizing people to safely share space. I'm all for bicycle super highways as ways to speed commutes, but they are not a be-all and end-all solution to the safety problem because at some point, cyclists will have to exit the bicycle highway and enter the roadway.
Bicycle super highways are a solution that enables cyclists to get places at the optimal speed that a bicycle can go. That, as well as bringing in more cyclists to take advantage of the increased speed of a commute, is their main effect. But they are not a solution that makes cycling safe - they can only make cycling a bit safer for those who are able to use these highways. Once the cyclist moves off the cycling highway (as they must), they are just as vulnerable as they were before - perhaps more so because the more they use a segregated cycling highway, the less they will be used to cycling in traffic.
We can create these unrealistic separated 'green zone' type pseudo solutions in some places, and they will speed up commutes for some cyclists, but segregated bicycle paths can only ever be limited to a very small percentage of the cycling spaces we need to use. In the vast majority of trips, bicycles and motor vehicles will have to share the road. Until we address the real problem, I fear we're just avoiding the real solutions and sweeping the most important problems under the rug.
Last edited by ianbrettcooper; 09-25-10 at 02:11 PM.
09-25-10, 01:25 PM
#14
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right.
not a general solution, just as interstates don't go to everyone's house.
select transportation corridors in Vancouver will have separated bike facilities. the majority of streets in Vancouver will remain unmodified.
Well thought out bike master plans identify corridors that will, do or should carry bicyclist traffic, and plan the interventions accordingly.
All the planning documents and recommendations common in most all North American bike master plans I have looked at recommend that the vast majority of streets in communities stay as is.
not a general solution, just as interstates don't go to everyone's house.
select transportation corridors in Vancouver will have separated bike facilities. the majority of streets in Vancouver will remain unmodified.
Well thought out bike master plans identify corridors that will, do or should carry bicyclist traffic, and plan the interventions accordingly.
All the planning documents and recommendations common in most all North American bike master plans I have looked at recommend that the vast majority of streets in communities stay as is.
09-25-10, 02:07 PM
#15
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That's strange, 'cos last time I checked, I was a cyclist, and separated bike lanes have never been my dream. Unless Nancy Macdonald means it's one of my nightmares - if we were only permitted to cycle on segregated paths, that would really be a nightmare. Part of what I enjoy about cycling is the challenge of sharing the road with other drivers. If I could only share with other cyclists, it would take away some of the fun for me...
It may be of some solace to you to know that BC has no mandatory side path rule. In other words, cyclists aren't obliged to use these lanes. (This rule was one of the side benefits of our MHL. There was a mandatory side path rule, but it was removed as part of a deal to keep the advocacy group quiet about any opposition to our then proposed helmet law)
I often get flack from people that don't like that lanes have been taken away from drivers for these segregated lanes. They say the remaining lanes for drivers are more congested.
I tease these people by saying that I don't like them either, and when I ride on these streets I do so not in these lanes, but right in the middle of the "drivers" lane.
They usually blow up, having been caught in double talk; they don't want cyclists in "their" lanes, but they don't want cyclists to have their own lane that gets them "out of the way"
Last edited by closetbiker; 09-25-10 at 02:23 PM.
09-27-10, 07:26 AM
#16
Senior Member
Now there's much protest over the Hornby Street lane and i'd be very surprised to find it won't end up as more of the same.
The other morning I saw a bet laid out by copenhaganize.com about any city hitting the 10% goal with a MHL
PUT YOUR MONEY ON THE TABLE...
And here's a bet from Copenhagenize. There will never be a city that promotes (or legislates) bicycle helmets that will ever reach double digit modal share for bicycles.
Any takers?
We'll see what happens with our efforts and MHL here.
The City is running a poll on if we should Repeal mandatory bike helmet legislation
I voted
The other morning I saw a bet laid out by copenhaganize.com about any city hitting the 10% goal with a MHL
PUT YOUR MONEY ON THE TABLE...
And here's a bet from Copenhagenize. There will never be a city that promotes (or legislates) bicycle helmets that will ever reach double digit modal share for bicycles.
Any takers?
We'll see what happens with our efforts and MHL here.
The City is running a poll on if we should Repeal mandatory bike helmet legislation
I voted
The City of Vancouver has details, but the article did mention that cycling has increased by 180 per cent over the last 10 years.
There are threads that actually deal with MHL and helmet issues, unlike this one, which is mainly about dedicated bike lanes. Perhaps you should keep the controversial stuff to the threads that were actually created to deal with them...
09-27-10, 08:36 AM
#17
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So cycling in Vancouver has increased 180% in 10 yrs with a MHL in place for some of that time?
There are threads that actually deal with MHL and helmet issues, unlike this one, which is mainly about dedicated bike lanes. Perhaps you should keep the controversial stuff to the threads that were actually created to deal with them...
There are threads that actually deal with MHL and helmet issues, unlike this one, which is mainly about dedicated bike lanes. Perhaps you should keep the controversial stuff to the threads that were actually created to deal with them...
As for the increase in cycling in spite of our law? That easy. The increase has corresponded with a coordinated and purposeful lack of enforcement of the law. When the law passed there was enforcement. Helmet use rose and ridership dropped. Since the enforcement policy changed, usage has dropped and ridership has increased. Overall use now is about where it was pre-law.
It may be possible to increase ride share to 10% with a helmet law. The trick to it may just be that police simply not enforce it. Mom always told me the policeman was a friend.
Last edited by closetbiker; 09-27-10 at 08:40 AM.
09-27-10, 09:11 AM
#18
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its far more interesting how the select separated bike facilities have proven a boon to vancouver residents across the Burnaby bridge and how the Vancouver government is developing a new transportational paradigm where bikes are treated as a viable urban vehicle.
increase in cycling in Vancouver have not been a RESULT of lax enforcement of a helmet law. thats painting with MIGHTY broad strokes, Closetbiker.
increase in cycling in Vancouver have not been a RESULT of lax enforcement of a helmet law. thats painting with MIGHTY broad strokes, Closetbiker.
09-27-10, 09:33 AM
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09-27-10, 09:38 AM
#20
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yes. i will advance changes in Vancouver infrastructure appear to be having a much greater effect than vancouver brown-bagging the MHL.
(you can queegishly obsess about MHL all you want, closetbiker, but stinking up a real positive development for Vancouver bicyclists with talk of MHL is rather odious dontchyathink.)
(you can queegishly obsess about MHL all you want, closetbiker, but stinking up a real positive development for Vancouver bicyclists with talk of MHL is rather odious dontchyathink.)
09-27-10, 09:50 AM
#21
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Thread Starter
It is quite arguable that the increase in cyclists is because the cops have stopped enforcing the law and this has as much to do with the increase as the building of infrastructure does.
I'll also betcha that the ECF will have something to say about it too (when they hold velo-city here next year)
Last edited by closetbiker; 09-27-10 at 11:18 AM.
09-27-10, 09:50 AM
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I am curious, what are the law about non cyclists using these facilities, ie walkers, joggers, roller bladers, electric scooters, segways, hover craft? And if non cyclists are not allowed, what is the enforcement?
What has the real life observations been
The reason ask, it that any sort of shared trail (MUP) seems to go to the slowest common denominator, resulting in less utility and efficiency for cylists.
What has the real life observations been
The reason ask, it that any sort of shared trail (MUP) seems to go to the slowest common denominator, resulting in less utility and efficiency for cylists.
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(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
09-27-10, 10:14 AM
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The law is that these lanes are for cyclists only, but when going over the Burrard Street Bridge, I see, on occasion, the odd roller blader (not that roller bladers are odd).
I haven't seen anything but bikes on Dunsmuir and I haven't even been on the viaduct
Walkers and joggers stay to the sidewalk, scooters are on the road and I haven't seen a segway. Those are in a grey zone and the last I heard anything about them, it was in a local paper
https://www.vancourier.com/issues03/0...052103nn6.html
"The operator of Canada's only Segway rental business is fighting ICBC over whether or not the innovative human transporter can be used on city streets...However, ICBC spokeswoman Moira Wellwood said riding a Segway on a public road is against the law. "A Segway wouldn't qualify as a motor assisted bicycle," said Wellwood, adding there is no section of the Motor Vehicle Act that governs Segways...When you get right down to it, there are no [specific] rules and regulations governing the use of Segways in Vancouver or Canada...Until we clarify what the laws are, we don't know where we stand on it"
As an interesting side note, I just noticed this in the news
Segway scooter firm owner dies after riding off cliff
I haven't seen anything but bikes on Dunsmuir and I haven't even been on the viaduct
Walkers and joggers stay to the sidewalk, scooters are on the road and I haven't seen a segway. Those are in a grey zone and the last I heard anything about them, it was in a local paper
https://www.vancourier.com/issues03/0...052103nn6.html
"The operator of Canada's only Segway rental business is fighting ICBC over whether or not the innovative human transporter can be used on city streets...However, ICBC spokeswoman Moira Wellwood said riding a Segway on a public road is against the law. "A Segway wouldn't qualify as a motor assisted bicycle," said Wellwood, adding there is no section of the Motor Vehicle Act that governs Segways...When you get right down to it, there are no [specific] rules and regulations governing the use of Segways in Vancouver or Canada...Until we clarify what the laws are, we don't know where we stand on it"
As an interesting side note, I just noticed this in the news
Segway scooter firm owner dies after riding off cliff
The body of millionaire Jimi Heselden, 62, was discovered in the River Wharfe near his home in the town of Boston Spa in northern England on Sunday, said a spokeswoman for West Yorkshire Police.
"A Segway-style vehicle was recovered from the scene," the spokeswoman told AFP, adding that police were called to the scene after reports of a man "apparently having fallen from the cliffs above".
"A Segway-style vehicle was recovered from the scene," the spokeswoman told AFP, adding that police were called to the scene after reports of a man "apparently having fallen from the cliffs above".
Last edited by closetbiker; 09-27-10 at 10:58 AM.
09-27-10, 12:07 PM
#24
Senior Member
well, it is part of the issue and it is interesting to see the MHLs affect on ridership. It is a particular issue in the proposed publicly shared bicycle program that has been sitting on the shelf for the last couple of years. The MHL has been singled out as a major reason it has not yet been implemented.
As for the increase in cycling in spite of our law? That easy. The increase has corresponded with a coordinated and purposeful lack of enforcement of the law. When the law passed there was enforcement. Helmet use rose and ridership dropped. Since the enforcement policy changed, usage has dropped and ridership has increased. Overall use now is about where it was pre-law.
It may be possible to increase ride share to 10% with a helmet law. The trick to it may just be that police simply not enforce it. Mom always told me the policeman was a friend.
As for the increase in cycling in spite of our law? That easy. The increase has corresponded with a coordinated and purposeful lack of enforcement of the law. When the law passed there was enforcement. Helmet use rose and ridership dropped. Since the enforcement policy changed, usage has dropped and ridership has increased. Overall use now is about where it was pre-law.
It may be possible to increase ride share to 10% with a helmet law. The trick to it may just be that police simply not enforce it. Mom always told me the policeman was a friend.
Now I'm confused.
Again, maybe this is not the thread to get all aggro about MHL and stuff, focus on good works like bike infrastructure increasing rider share.
Doesn't matter if the cops are not enforcing--raw stats will show the same thing: ridership up in spite of a MHL in place. And again, if you want to argue this, place to do it would be a dedicated helmet thread rather than one that seems to focus on the success of bicycle infrastructure.
09-27-10, 12:34 PM
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
the survey period from which increased ridership was measured started one year post helmet law at which time there was strict enforcement of helmet use. About 2 years later, police stopped enforcing the law and bareheaded riders started to re-appear. Currently, use is about where it was pre-law, presumably at the level where individuals would make a choice to use without consequence of ticketing for non-use.
Au contraire, it matters a great deal. A law means nothing if it is not enforced
I'm hardly arguing it as much as others, and it would be both short-sighted and narrow minded to ignore this factor in increased cycling in the city.
It has already been experienced here and ridership significantly dropped. If we were to eliminate the bareheaded cyclists in Vancouver today, about half of all cycling would disappear.
It has already been experienced here and ridership significantly dropped. If we were to eliminate the bareheaded cyclists in Vancouver today, about half of all cycling would disappear.
Last edited by closetbiker; 09-27-10 at 01:23 PM.