caloso

It makes a big difference to have a barrel adjuster on your cable hanger, if you ever change wheels. Even wheels that are marked as the same width have slight differences.

tornado60

I'm used to dealing with center pivot side pulls that refuse to center properly. I have spent hours trying to get some of those working properly. For me these are a breeze in comparison. The tip about adjusting the pads before reconnecting the cables is a good one. The barrel adjuster is probably also a good suggestion. It'll allow for easier small adjustments

Retro Grouch 

I didn't get the opportunity to look at OP's return spring retainer cups, but I'll bet they're cracked. Nice thing about the internet is the folks who respond to you have nothing to gain by selling you unneeded parts. And, even when brand new, those brakes were a PITA to set up and to adjust.

Happy Feet

Bad part about the internet is random people substitute opinion for fact.

Having a problem adjusting cantilevers - cantilevers must be bad.

Also. Guy comes in talking about adjusting cantilevers - told to replace entire brake system. Funny thing is, if he came in complaining about V brakes he'd be told to get disc. Once he did that, the next comment would be to get hydro not mechanical...

What people on the internet have to gain is being right. The pot o gold that fuels many a run on thread.

FWIW, I say learn how to adjust cantilevers - it's not that hard.

katsup

I don't mind adjusting cantilever brakes, but getting the Kool Stop eagle claw pads not squeal can be a pain.

Dwillems26

have one. I got the bike like that.

Dwillems26

These cups are actually in pretty good shape surprisingly. I'm not sure how much longer they'll last though.

Dwillems26

Thinking maybe I came off on the wrong foot in my OP. I do like the brakes, I'm not suggesting that people stay clear of cantilevers, I'm not suggesting that I'll never own a bike with them again. I see the benefits to them indeed, and even though mine aren't tuned in to perfection, they work quite well.

All I was getting at is that these brakes take much work to set up correctly. Especially since it's my first time messing with this style. However, I did get them set up to an extent without too much cursing. I'm sure my next time will go smoother, especially with y'all's great tips! Not everybody works on bikes for a living, or as an avid enthusiast where you meticulously go through every detail on your bike, so not everyone will be proficient with every task. On the other hand, many people struggle with things and decide it's impossible for anyone to do because they can't get it, or their buddy can't get it. Some people have enough time and money or enough dedication to put in the time and get the right parts to make it perfect. Others just want a safe operable bike to enjoy. I know enough to know I don't know enough, and that I won't be the best at everything. This is why team cohesion and this forum is so important, work with each other's weaknesses and strengths.

I am reading everyone's post even if I don't reply to each one, and I do appreciate everyone's feedback and help. Do please remember that this bike was just for a fun budget build. For me to learn and get experience. No I'm not going to leave the brakes like they are. I'm trying to source new yokes and straddle cables. At that point I'll tidy everything up, take everyone's suggestions to set them up better. Trim up the excess cable ends. But for now, at this point in time, the bike is safe to ride, it won't be ridden often since we have other bikes, and when it is ridden it'll just be up and down the street, no highways.

Dwillems26

I agree with you, but like I said in a previous post... is borrowed from another bike. I plan to get new parts for this bike and return that one to the other bike, or get new parts for both bikes. I haven't decided yet. So I left it until I figure out what I'm doing and get the new parts.

phughes

You might want to read this article on cantilever brakes. https://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html It gives good advice on how they work and how to set them up properly.

BuckeyeRider

I've found all brakes to be a pita in some way or another.

Oneder

The problem is edgy people who think they're so smart for no particular reason and take every subject very seriously, especially on this site lol

Cantilevers are bad unless you enjoy wasting time. Especially ones that look to be 50 years old.

V brakes are a lot easier. If he came in and said he didn't have enough power then recommending disc brakes would make sense, but they are not easier than v brakes so no one would recommend them for that reason.

Speak for yourself, most people enjoy subjects not taking out their issues on strangers.

phughes

Sorry, cantilevers are not bad, and you don't have to waste your time in order to adjust them, you just have to know what you are doing. With experience its fairly easy. They also have an advantage over V-brakes if you want to run wide tires and fenders. That being said, V-Brakes are great brakes.

Happy Feet

Glad you're not one of those edgy people then

To say "cantilevers are bad" or that they "look to be 50 years old" sort of says it all IMO. Seems the only people with issues are those who call others liars or try to suggest others dismiss entire product lines because they don't know how to adjust them.

Chuckles1

I agree. The only way I got my cantis to brake well was to shorten the straddle cable as much as possible while still allowing for straddle cable to barely slip off for wheel removal. Those yoke setups would seem to preclude doing so, to some extent. Sometimes simpler is better.

Overall I agree, cantis are a PITA until you master your particular brand through much time and frustration invested.

rosefarts

I was going to put up a picture of my brakes but these are the same. Cheap and pretty easy to get right.

I've got them running on a gravel bike that I absolutely bomb down some awfully steep washboard and rocky roads. I did a 12 mile filling rattling descent just the other day. They're great. I'd like hydro disc but my bike predates that.

I could use mini V but I've got massive rim clearance. I don't have to deflate a tire to get the wheel off and I can run anything my frame can handle (45+). To me it's worth keeping canti's for that.

Be careful to get the toe in right, especially up front or this can cause shuddering.

I use Kool Stop Salmon pads. Cheap and add a little extra oomph. Only loud wet and at low speed.


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Kapusta

I feel your pain. I got into mountain biking just before v-brakes came out, so I was not using them long enough to get good at setting them up. Bought a set of LX calipers and levers and have not used cantis since.... on anything.

Every so often I need to futz with a pair, and it make me feel like I suck at bikes. I am sure I could learn to get good at it, just never had the need.

OTOH, I can set up a pair of BB7’s to work brilliantly, and keep running great with very quick tweaks, a task which stumps many.

I think cantis are actually a bit like mechanical discs for mtbs. Most people who think they just plain suck don’t know how to set them up.... which, to be fair, does take a bit of time and patience to learn.

Doug64

Based on my experince, I don't agree with your assessment. It may be true for you, but I don't find it any harder or time consuming to replace or adjust cantilever brakes than I do V- brakes. This winter I worked on 37 bikes with V-brakes. This included adjusting all the brakes, replacing several sets of brakes, replacingl brake pads, replacing cables, and several noodles. I did the same maintenance on 6 bikes with cantilever brakes, with no significant differences in difficulty or time. Sure, every once in a while there is a set up that proves to be challenging, but those are found on both types of brakes.

V- brakes have a weakness when used on flat bar bikes. With a flat bar bike the front wheel can be rotated until stopped by the front brake cable. If the force is great enough, It will bend the brake's noodle hanger which can cause problems. The hanger can be bent back only a limited numer of times before the metal cracks. This ruins the brake, and is a safety item. I replaced a lot of brakes for this reason.

This is our school district's bike safety fleet. All the bikes got a deep cleaning, all bearings lubed, parts replaced, and drivetrain and brake adjustments this winter. The sad part is that it may be awhile before we start teaching bike safety to our 5th graders again

Oneder

There's nothing inherent to v brakes about having short cables, it just means they were installed wrong. And on a good frame or just a good install you have attached it to the frame in a way this is impossible even if you made the cable too short. The cantilever brakes are inherently harder to adjust because as you tighten them up it can also undo your changes while with v brakes this is not the case the nut is in a better position that does not torque them out of position. If you have no trouble adjusting them obviously you don't need to do anything, if you do then the course of action is pretty obvious especially when you get much more grab from them and you don't have to adjust them NEARLY as perfectly to get good performance.

Oneder

Defensive much? No one called you a liar, you were just incorrect and became very insulting for no reason.

Happy Feet

Hum... Helps if you know what you are talking about.

Read post number13, which came after my post, number 12, in which I said adjusting cantis isnt that hard if you learn how.

What you think is wrong about that or why you have chosen to take up someone else's name calling issue is a curiosity.

Miele Man

A safety issue with V-brakes? Uh huh, okay. How about the safety issue with cantilever brakes with a straddle cable and yoke wherein if the front brake cable breaks the straddle cable goes down onto the front tire and locks up the wheel causing a wipeoout? This has happened a number of times which is why either an L-shaped piece or a front reflector bracket is used under the straddle cable or why Shimano and others now use a different system for cantilever brake cables that eliminiates that straddle cable.

People who have NOT done much setting up or adjusting of cantilever brakes often find it hard to adjust them properly. A lot of those people don't even know what a properly adjusted cantilever setup looks/feels like. For those inexperienced people, V-brakes are often much simpler to setup or adjust.

Cheers

Happy Feet

Lot's of good ideas/info comes out when people share their varying experiences without claiming whole systems are good/bad.

I've been aware of the safety issue with straddle cables and sudden failure of the brake cable for years now and always either have a fender or cable support arm (or whatever they call that little thing) there for that purpose.

Here's a pic of a bike with both (I was deciding on whether to add the fender):



Someone also said you can't run V brake arms using canti brake levers. Here's a pic of a bike doing that (I replaced the front with V but kept the back canti):



In general:

I get that there is a learning curve for canti's, as there is for any brake system. That doesn't mean the system is bad. Give someone mechanical or hydro disc brakes without instructions and ask them to make adjustments or replace pads and it would be the same. Lot's of little tricks and tips to be learned. When I bought my first bike with disc and needed new pads I bought them at my favorite LBS and had the mechanic show me how to replace them. He did one and I did the other.

I still say the biggest problem people may have is trying to adjust both the pad position and cable tension at the same time. They squeeze the brake and try to adjust how the pad sits against the rim at the same time. You need three hands for that! Instead: Loosen the brake cable and disconnect the straddle cable. Hold the cantilever to the rim and adjust pad position. Do the same to the other side. Reattach straddle cable and then adjust brake cable tension. Once you separate those two tasks it becomes a lot easier.

Miele Man

I thought we were talking about people with LITTLE experience in setting up or adjusting brakes.

I've seen many a bicycle on the rail trail where the bicycle ride disconnected a V-brake because they didn't know how to adjust the little bolt on the side in order to center the brakes.

I'm not saying that cantilever brakes are bad. I simply think that for a person who has very little experience with working on bicycle brakes that a V-brake is easier to set up and adjust than is a cantilever brake system.

Most people who say not to use cantilever brake levers with V-brakes calipers or not to use V-brake levers with cantilever brake calipers say that becuase they fear that the resultant braking may NOT be optimal for the user. Again, this is more so if the rider is inexperienced.

Here is Sheldon Brown's take on it.

"

Brake Levers for Direct-pull Cantilevers

Direct-pull cantilevers have double the mechanical advantage compared with traditional brakes, so they require special brake levers. Direct-pull brake levers pull the cable twice as far, half as hard. The lower mechanical advantage of the lever compensates for the higher mechanical advantage of the brake arms. It is not generally safe to mix and match levers/cables between direct-pull and other types for this reason.

• Conventional brake levers used with direct-pull cantilevers will usually not pull enough cable to stop in wet conditions without bottoming out against the handlebars. In dry conditions, they either won't work, or will grab too suddenly.
• Direct-pull brake levers used with any other type of brakes will feel nice and solid when you squeeze them, but due to their lower mechanical advantage you'll need to squeeze twice as hard to stop as you should, so unless you are a lightweight rider with gorilla-like paws, this combination isn't safe either."

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/canti-direct.html

Cheers

rosefarts

Mr Der
I mentioned earlier why I use canti's. Instead of V.

1. I ride in conditions where it's not a stretch to imagine knocking my wheels out of true or breaking spokes. Canti's, especially cyclocross style where the arms are parallel to the ground, offer miles more rim clearance than V.

2. It's a road bike with 40mm tires, might be 45 next pair of tires. You can't remove or install a fully aired tire that size with V. You'd have to let air out of the tires each time. With tubeless, it's another hassle I can avoid with canti's.
2a. With the same size tires as mentioned earlier, there is a good chance that they'll rub the cable on Mini V.

They stop great. I didn't spend much time setting them up but I'll admit, they're not dead easy. Tektro got it right using V style pads. So toe in and position are easy to adjust with just an allen wrench. It sure beats the 10mm box wrench from the past.

My next brakes on a gravel bike will be hydro disc, ie, new bike.

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