Cantilever Brakes... 🤬
Likes For grizzly59:
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,489
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1182 Post(s)
Liked 833 Times
in
435 Posts
Anyone who says they take the same time is just lying, cantilever brakes take much more care. And why you would want to spend more time for a brake that's objectively less performing is a true mystery. So now I guess I am calling you a liar happy feet, and so is sheldon brown lol
This reminds me of a quote from John Wooden: " It is what you learn after you know it all that counts". It sounds like you are about at the point of learning about what counts.
The quote from Sheldon Brown essentially said to use the correct brake levers for your brakes.
Last edited by Doug64; 05-01-20 at 09:28 PM.
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,489
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1182 Post(s)
Liked 833 Times
in
435 Posts
This is the setup for using V-brakes with STI shifters on a touring road bike with drop bars. It takes longer to set up, but works well.
I belive that I can set my Paul cantelever brakes up as fast as most people can set up their V-brakes.
I belive that I can set my Paul cantelever brakes up as fast as most people can set up their V-brakes.
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times
in
707 Posts
Anyone who says they take the same time is just lying, cantilever brakes take much more care. And why you would want to spend more time for a brake that's objectively less performing is a true mystery. So now I guess I am calling you a liar happy feet, and so is sheldon brown lol
Post reported.
Likes For Happy Feet:
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 712
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Liked 262 Times
in
164 Posts
Those Paul wide profile cantis are awesome. Now look at Shimano cantis with smooth-post brake pads. Different kettle o fish. Threaded w orbital washer brake pads are a definite improvement over smooth post brake pads.
#56
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,363
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,218 Times
in
2,365 Posts
The real advantage of Paul brakes...and others that are built like them...is the way that the return springs are adjusted. The Shimano brakes that Dwillems26 is struggling with don’t have much adjustment available to balance the springs. The only adjustment is usually a set screw on one side that pushes on the end of the spring. It can be used to balance the brakes but only crudely. The Pauls use a nut on the front of the brake which is easy to get to and both sides can be adjusted. To set the pads to the rim, simply release the spring, aline the brake pad and tighten up the spring nut. It’s dead simple. The same can’t be done with brakes like the Shimanos.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#57
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,363
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,218 Times
in
2,365 Posts
V- brakes have a weakness when used on flat bar bikes. With a flat bar bike the front wheel can be rotated until stopped by the front brake cable. If the force is great enough, It will bend the brake's noodle hanger which can cause problems. The hanger can be bent back only a limited numer of times before the metal cracks. This ruins the brake, and is a safety item. I replaced a lot of brakes for this reason.
A safety issue with V-brakes? Uh huh, okay. How about the safety issue with cantilever brakes with a straddle cable and yoke wherein if the front brake cable breaks the straddle cable goes down onto the front tire and locks up the wheel causing a wipeoout? This has happened a number of times which is why either an L-shaped piece or a front reflector bracket is used under the straddle cable or why Shimano and others now use a different system for cantilever brake cables that eliminiates that straddle cable.
People who have NOT done much setting up or adjusting of cantilever brakes often find it hard to adjust them properly. A lot of those people don't even know what a properly adjusted cantilever setup looks/feels like. For those inexperienced people, V-brakes are often much simpler to setup or adjust.
Cheers
People who have NOT done much setting up or adjusting of cantilever brakes often find it hard to adjust them properly. A lot of those people don't even know what a properly adjusted cantilever setup looks/feels like. For those inexperienced people, V-brakes are often much simpler to setup or adjust.
Cheers
I agree with your comment about people who haven’t worked on cantilevers don’t understand them but that is true of much of bicycle mechanical work.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Likes For cyccommute:
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Down Under
Posts: 1,936
Bikes: A steel framed 26" off road tourer from a manufacturer who thinks they are cool. Giant Anthem. Trek 720 Multiroad pub bike. 10 kids bikes all under 20". Assorted waifs and unfinished projects.
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Liked 1,154 Times
in
640 Posts
The cheap hack for post types is to slip a piece of plastic hose over the post and effectively turn it into a threaded one.
#59
Banned.
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 821
Bikes: Wahoo of Theseus, others
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 67 Times
in
46 Posts
The last thing I want to do is portray myself as a master bike mechanic but anyone who romanticises 25 yo shimano cantilever brakes is having a serious case of nostalgia. I had shimano cantis from 1993 on my yahoo when I got it and could not be happier once I tossed those things and it's laughable to to point the finger at me when they were so obviously garbage.
Last edited by Oneder; 05-02-20 at 04:58 AM.
Likes For Oneder:
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,489
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1182 Post(s)
Liked 833 Times
in
435 Posts
I think you are both making somewhat spurious “safety” arguments. Yes, the cable bridge on a linear brake can be damaged but I’ve never seen one damaged because the handlebar is turned too far. I’m not even sure how that could happen. The bridge is located where it would be difficult to have it contact any part of the frame. You might be able to turn the wheel far enough to wrap the cable around the headset but that’s user error and not something that is going to happen all that often. A lot of the damage I’ve seen done to the cable bridge comes from people not understanding how to remove the cable properly. People tend to pull the end of the noodle out of the cable bridge and end up damaging it. But that’s user error but not something wrong with the design
I agree with your comment about people who haven’t worked on cantilevers don’t understand them but that is true of much of bicycle mechanical work.
I agree with your comment about people who haven’t worked on cantilevers don’t understand them but that is true of much of bicycle mechanical work.
I had to replace
You may not have had the pleasure of working on bikes ridden by 5th graders for 15 years I'm not sure exactly how the kids do it, but I think it is casued by wraping the cable arond the head tube. I've found bikes after classes with bars turned more than 180 degrees leaning against the bike trailer. Go figure. The kids are hard on bikes. The bikes also take a lot of abuse transporting them between schools, and loading them in and out of the trailer every day we have class, sometimes twice a day. That could be 50-60 times in one schoolyear. I wish we had a better system of transporting them, but we are lucky to have what got. There is not a good way to get 37 bikes, 130 helmets, tools etc into a 20' cargo trailer. Check the picture in post #49 , and that is not fully loaded.
Last edited by Doug64; 05-02-20 at 06:13 PM.
#61
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks. I have new straddle cables and that yoke pull thing coming in the mail. I'll change them around when those come in and get the brakes dialed in better.
Likes For Dwillems26:
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,490
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1083 Post(s)
Liked 687 Times
in
441 Posts
Oh yeah, forgot to add, as well as the tube on the post, use small zip ties around the pads to set up the toe in. Not too tight so you can slip them off when you finish. Can use different sized zip ties for different toe in. Works for bolt mount pads too.
Reckon the weird cabling on the front brake is just the excess cable tucked behind the straddle cable bolt.
Personally on both brakes I'd have the pads further out from the arms to straighten the straddle cable, increases the sensitivity and power of the brakes.
Reckon the weird cabling on the front brake is just the excess cable tucked behind the straddle cable bolt.
Personally on both brakes I'd have the pads further out from the arms to straighten the straddle cable, increases the sensitivity and power of the brakes.
Likes For Jeff Neese:
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,490
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1083 Post(s)
Liked 687 Times
in
441 Posts
I may not be your typical rider/mechanic, but I've had cantilever brakes since my 1983 Trek 720, and that's what's on almost all of my bikes now. Installing and adjusting cantilever brakes is one of those things that seems tricky the first time, but with some of the advice you're getting here plus all the Youtube videos, once you've done it once or twice it's not a big deal AT ALL. It's actually super simple.
That said, it's definitely easier with better-quality brake sets. Tension adjustment screws on both sides makes centering them easier. Most of the old Shimano do not, while something newer like my favorite, Avid Shorty 4 or 6, does. Plus better-quality brakes stay in adjustment longer. It's not unusual for my wife and I to ride a couple of whole seasons without having to adjust the brakes at all. Maybe a little turn of the barrel adjuster as the cable stretches, but generally good ones will stay adjusted and rock-solid.
If I'm looking at a used bike, I don't disqualify it from consideration if it has V-brakes, but I strongly prefer cantilevers.
That said, it's definitely easier with better-quality brake sets. Tension adjustment screws on both sides makes centering them easier. Most of the old Shimano do not, while something newer like my favorite, Avid Shorty 4 or 6, does. Plus better-quality brakes stay in adjustment longer. It's not unusual for my wife and I to ride a couple of whole seasons without having to adjust the brakes at all. Maybe a little turn of the barrel adjuster as the cable stretches, but generally good ones will stay adjusted and rock-solid.
If I'm looking at a used bike, I don't disqualify it from consideration if it has V-brakes, but I strongly prefer cantilevers.
#66
Banned.
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 821
Bikes: Wahoo of Theseus, others
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 67 Times
in
46 Posts
I may not be your typical rider/mechanic, but I've had cantilever brakes since my 1983 Trek 720, and that's what's on almost all of my bikes now. Installing and adjusting cantilever brakes is one of those things that seems tricky the first time, but with some of the advice you're getting here plus all the Youtube videos, once you've done it once or twice it's not a big deal AT ALL. It's actually super simple.
That said, it's definitely easier with better-quality brake sets. Tension adjustment screws on both sides makes centering them easier. Most of the old Shimano do not, while something newer like my favorite, Avid Shorty 4 or 6, does. Plus better-quality brakes stay in adjustment longer. It's not unusual for my wife and I to ride a couple of whole seasons without having to adjust the brakes at all. Maybe a little turn of the barrel adjuster as the cable stretches, but generally good ones will stay adjusted and rock-solid.
If I'm looking at a used bike, I don't disqualify it from consideration if it has V-brakes, but I strongly prefer cantilevers.
That said, it's definitely easier with better-quality brake sets. Tension adjustment screws on both sides makes centering them easier. Most of the old Shimano do not, while something newer like my favorite, Avid Shorty 4 or 6, does. Plus better-quality brakes stay in adjustment longer. It's not unusual for my wife and I to ride a couple of whole seasons without having to adjust the brakes at all. Maybe a little turn of the barrel adjuster as the cable stretches, but generally good ones will stay adjusted and rock-solid.
If I'm looking at a used bike, I don't disqualify it from consideration if it has V-brakes, but I strongly prefer cantilevers.
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,490
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1083 Post(s)
Liked 687 Times
in
441 Posts
Waste of time and effort? It's hardly that, since it doesn't take very long, isn't that hard, and they stay perfectly adjusted almost forever. That's the opposite of a waste of time.
Likes For Jeff Neese:
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,094
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1034 Post(s)
Liked 1,290 Times
in
743 Posts
As waste of time? How? So you are saying adjusting the brakes properly is a waste of time? Let's see, yesterday I spend less than ten minutes adjusting my front brakes. It was easy, and they work better now. Did I just waste my time? Sorry, it isn't difficult, or time consuming to adjust cantilever brakes. It is like anything, you learn how to do it, and suddenly it isn't difficult.
#69
Senior Member
Are just there worst! Yes they work great, yes they center themselves pretty well. But holy coconuts they are the biggest pain to adjust. Spent an hour on these things and they still aren't perfect. It's a beach cruiser though so I'm calling it done.
This style is even worse! There's 2 cables to pull and adjust 🤬
This style is even worse! There's 2 cables to pull and adjust 🤬
#70
Banned.
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 821
Bikes: Wahoo of Theseus, others
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 67 Times
in
46 Posts
As waste of time? How? So you are saying adjusting the brakes properly is a waste of time? Let's see, yesterday I spend less than ten minutes adjusting my front brakes. It was easy, and they work better now. Did I just waste my time? Sorry, it isn't difficult, or time consuming to adjust cantilever brakes. It is like anything, you learn how to do it, and suddenly it isn't difficult.
#73
Newbie
right angles is your friend.
Ive only ever ridden the one bike with handbrakes? and don't know what all the fuss is about? Ok, I was never that impressed with the mafac cantilevers on my 35 year old touring bike, was told they were powerful brakes, but could never get enough braking that a wheel would lock up(deliberately), one day decided to have a proper look at it all and decided that the way it was setup(Ive had it from new) didnt really lend itself to mechanical advantage in that the cantilever arms were not at right angles to the centre pulling cable, adjusted both the length of the pad rod arms to the cantilevers and raised the centre tie height so that the cables to each cantilever were going to be as near to a right angle through the whole movement of the hand brake lever, and voila, can lock the wheels up with just two fingers on the levers.
In the bike that is shown with the problem, apart from the incorrect anchor point for the centre cable, I would advise moving the arms further away from the wheel and increasing the distance to the centre pull junction.
In the bike that is shown with the problem, apart from the incorrect anchor point for the centre cable, I would advise moving the arms further away from the wheel and increasing the distance to the centre pull junction.
#75
Member
Are the ones that points straight out more efficient than the ones in the above picture? I got the onyx but was wondering about getting a pair that are more horizontally oriented for better braking?
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?