Chain damage, new large chain ring
07-25-23, 10:39 AM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Chain damage, new large chain ring
I just replaced my chain and the large chain ring. After a 1000 miles of use, one link in the chain is damaged so that it is very tight to flex/move. It causes jumping with the derailleur. In looking closer at the chain all the links are showing damage on the inside of the chain. Which I assume is the pins on the chain ring that help it shift from the small chain ring to large. Anyone have an idea on what is wrong here? Here is a link to a picture of the link that is totally bound:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5yk7z...1rxrtfp5k&dl=0
Here is what I purchased:
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Deore...grid_rp_0_16_t
Chain is a Shimano 10s CN-HG95 I clean and oil the chain every 100-150 miles. It shifts just as it always has to this point.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5yk7z...1rxrtfp5k&dl=0
Here is what I purchased:
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Deore...grid_rp_0_16_t
Chain is a Shimano 10s CN-HG95 I clean and oil the chain every 100-150 miles. It shifts just as it always has to this point.
07-25-23, 10:42 AM
#2
aged to perfection
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PacNW
Posts: 1,846
Bikes: Dinucci Allez 2.0, Richard Sachs, Alex Singer, Serotta, Masi GC, Raleigh Pro Mk.1, Hetchins, etc
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 846 Post(s)
Liked 1,278 Times
in
674 Posts
got a chain tool ? find that link and see if you can push the pin a little bit to loosen it up.
must like we used to do after putting the chain back on and pressing the pin in.
Before quick links were a thing
/markp
must like we used to do after putting the chain back on and pressing the pin in.
Before quick links were a thing
/markp
Likes For mpetry912:
07-25-23, 11:39 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,978
Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times
in
536 Posts
the INSIDE of the chain... so you're blaming the chain damage on shift aid pins that would hit the OUTSIDE of the chain?
look for another reason for the damage.
did you possibly buy/install the wrong width chain?
how many cogs does the cassette or freewheel have?
is the Derailleur in line with the frame, or did it get bent/twisted out of position?
how did you make the chain fit your bike, and is it properly routed through the rear derailleur?
look for another reason for the damage.
did you possibly buy/install the wrong width chain?
how many cogs does the cassette or freewheel have?
is the Derailleur in line with the frame, or did it get bent/twisted out of position?
how did you make the chain fit your bike, and is it properly routed through the rear derailleur?
Last edited by maddog34; 07-25-23 at 12:16 PM.
Likes For maddog34:
07-25-23, 11:41 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,860
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3560 Post(s)
Liked 2,975 Times
in
1,800 Posts
Grab the chain on either side of the bad link and flex it side-to-side a few times, until it loosens.
Likes For smd4:
07-25-23, 12:47 PM
#5
Full Member
Thread Starter
the INSIDE of the chain... so you're blaming the chain damage on shift aid pins that would hit the OUTSIDE of the chain?
look for another reason for the damage.
did you possibly buy/install the wrong width chain?
how many cogs does the cassette or freewheel have?
is the Derailleur in line with the frame, or did it get bent/twisted out of position?
how did you make the chain fit your bike, and is it properly routed through the rear derailleur?
look for another reason for the damage.
did you possibly buy/install the wrong width chain?
how many cogs does the cassette or freewheel have?
is the Derailleur in line with the frame, or did it get bent/twisted out of position?
how did you make the chain fit your bike, and is it properly routed through the rear derailleur?
I have used the same chain for 7 years for this bicycle. Length has always been the same also, have to cut it to 119 links. Derailleur is in line, I have the Park tool. It shifts perfectly. It is routed correctly. I just have never had a stiff link on a chain before and tied it to the new large chain ring. After looking at some YouTube videos, however, maybe it just a fluke. I will try to free it as others have commented.
Oh, and inside to me means looking at the chain coming out of the derailleur, the top side.
07-25-23, 01:35 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,978
Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times
in
536 Posts
When I watch the chain shift from the small to large chain ring from the front derailleur I see small pins on the large chain ring that engage and help lift it. This is happening on the inside of the chain, as the front derailleur forces the chain against the large chain ring and the small pins catch the chain on the inside. The outside of the chain shows no wear damage.
I have used the same chain for 7 years for this bicycle. Length has always been the same also, have to cut it to 119 links. Derailleur is in line, I have the Park tool. It shifts perfectly. It is routed correctly. I just have never had a stiff link on a chain before and tied it to the new large chain ring. After looking at some YouTube videos, however, maybe it just a fluke. I will try to free it as others have commented.
Oh, and inside to me means looking at the chain coming out of the derailleur, the top side.
I have used the same chain for 7 years for this bicycle. Length has always been the same also, have to cut it to 119 links. Derailleur is in line, I have the Park tool. It shifts perfectly. It is routed correctly. I just have never had a stiff link on a chain before and tied it to the new large chain ring. After looking at some YouTube videos, however, maybe it just a fluke. I will try to free it as others have commented.
Oh, and inside to me means looking at the chain coming out of the derailleur, the top side.
ok.. can you please post a pic of the "damage" to the chain's inner edges? it sounds like there is enough damage to the plates to make the chain act as if a pin tightened, but pins don't self-tighten, they get looser during use.
when was the Cassette last changed, and is there wear obvious on the smallest cog's teeth? (they're kind of oddly shaped anyway, but an 11 tooth small cog puts the chain really close to the lockring.......)
i'm thinking the Chain might be riding on the cassette's Lockring. Look for shiny sections on the perimeter of the lockring.... this could cause "damage" to the inner edges of the chain plates.. as can repeated shifting under High Load, like on a steep uphill, and a CRUNCH shift...
07-25-23, 02:29 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,813
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5836 Post(s)
Liked 2,673 Times
in
1,488 Posts
Don't blame the chain.
This kind of damage requires a certain amount of force which can ONLY be had when shifting the RD under load. To start with it cannot be caused by chainrings because when aluminum hits steel, the aluminum always loses. What's happening is that when you hard shift under load, the chain is being slammed down on the hardened steel teeth of your cassette causing the peening damage that you're seeing.
If it were my chain, I'd carefully dress out the damage with a file or Dremel then be good to go. Often, that isn't necessary, and normal wear will grind out where it's binding and you'll be OK.
But the key isn't about fixing it, it's about preventing it by easing up on pedal pressure when shifting.
Keep in mind that chains are heat treated to a hardness less than sprocket teeth. This is intentional because if chain plates weren't somewhat ductile there would be the risk of failure by cracking and snapping which engineers strive to avoid at all costs.
This kind of damage requires a certain amount of force which can ONLY be had when shifting the RD under load. To start with it cannot be caused by chainrings because when aluminum hits steel, the aluminum always loses. What's happening is that when you hard shift under load, the chain is being slammed down on the hardened steel teeth of your cassette causing the peening damage that you're seeing.
If it were my chain, I'd carefully dress out the damage with a file or Dremel then be good to go. Often, that isn't necessary, and normal wear will grind out where it's binding and you'll be OK.
But the key isn't about fixing it, it's about preventing it by easing up on pedal pressure when shifting.
Keep in mind that chains are heat treated to a hardness less than sprocket teeth. This is intentional because if chain plates weren't somewhat ductile there would be the risk of failure by cracking and snapping which engineers strive to avoid at all costs.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Last edited by FBinNY; 07-25-23 at 02:35 PM.
07-25-23, 04:46 PM
#8
Full Member
Thread Starter
Don't blame the chain.
This kind of damage requires a certain amount of force which can ONLY be had when shifting the RD under load. To start with it cannot be caused by chainrings because when aluminum hits steel, the aluminum always loses. What's happening is that when you hard shift under load, the chain is being slammed down on the hardened steel teeth of your cassette causing the peening damage that you're seeing.
If it were my chain, I'd carefully dress out the damage with a file or Dremel then be good to go. Often, that isn't necessary, and normal wear will grind out where it's binding and you'll be OK.
But the key isn't about fixing it, it's about preventing it by easing up on pedal pressure when shifting.
Keep in mind that chains are heat treated to a hardness less than sprocket teeth. This is intentional because if chain plates weren't somewhat ductile there would be the risk of failure by cracking and snapping which engineers strive to avoid at all costs.
This kind of damage requires a certain amount of force which can ONLY be had when shifting the RD under load. To start with it cannot be caused by chainrings because when aluminum hits steel, the aluminum always loses. What's happening is that when you hard shift under load, the chain is being slammed down on the hardened steel teeth of your cassette causing the peening damage that you're seeing.
If it were my chain, I'd carefully dress out the damage with a file or Dremel then be good to go. Often, that isn't necessary, and normal wear will grind out where it's binding and you'll be OK.
But the key isn't about fixing it, it's about preventing it by easing up on pedal pressure when shifting.
Keep in mind that chains are heat treated to a hardness less than sprocket teeth. This is intentional because if chain plates weren't somewhat ductile there would be the risk of failure by cracking and snapping which engineers strive to avoid at all costs.
I ended up using the CT-5 Mini Chain Tool and had to do what is in the video(22 seconds in) from the top and bottom and then switch sides of the chain to free the plates enough.
07-25-23, 05:37 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,813
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5836 Post(s)
Liked 2,673 Times
in
1,488 Posts
BE WARNED.
BITD spreading plates to free a stiff link was SOP. However, modern chains are built differently, and spreading plates is now risky business.
While old chains had longer pins extending beyond the outer plates, modern chains are much narrower, and have short pins flush to the plates. Moreover they're peened or otherwise spread over the plate to ensure that the plates cannot move out from the side forces index shifting can create.
So when you spread the plate, you break off or, at least weaken the peen, and are working against a near zero margin for error.
This isn't to say you cannot safely spread plates SLIGHTLY, only that you need to accept that slightly here means VERY SLIGHTLY at most.
BTW when chains snap from plates coming off the pin, it's always under high load, like when climbing, and no fun.
BITD spreading plates to free a stiff link was SOP. However, modern chains are built differently, and spreading plates is now risky business.
While old chains had longer pins extending beyond the outer plates, modern chains are much narrower, and have short pins flush to the plates. Moreover they're peened or otherwise spread over the plate to ensure that the plates cannot move out from the side forces index shifting can create.
So when you spread the plate, you break off or, at least weaken the peen, and are working against a near zero margin for error.
This isn't to say you cannot safely spread plates SLIGHTLY, only that you need to accept that slightly here means VERY SLIGHTLY at most.
BTW when chains snap from plates coming off the pin, it's always under high load, like when climbing, and no fun.
Last edited by FBinNY; 07-25-23 at 05:41 PM.
07-26-23, 09:09 AM
#10
aged to perfection
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PacNW
Posts: 1,846
Bikes: Dinucci Allez 2.0, Richard Sachs, Alex Singer, Serotta, Masi GC, Raleigh Pro Mk.1, Hetchins, etc
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 846 Post(s)
Liked 1,278 Times
in
674 Posts
While old chains had longer pins extending beyond the outer plates, modern chains are much narrower, and have short pins flush to the plates. Moreover they're peened or otherwise spread over the plate to ensure that the plates cannot move out from the side forces index shifting can create.
So when you spread the plate, you break off or, at least weaken the peen, and are working against a near zero margin for error.
This isn't to say you cannot safely spread plates SLIGHTLY, only that you need to accept that slightly here means VERY SLIGHTLY at most.
BTW when chains snap from plates coming off the pin, it's always under high load, like when climbing, and no fun.
So when you spread the plate, you break off or, at least weaken the peen, and are working against a near zero margin for error.
This isn't to say you cannot safely spread plates SLIGHTLY, only that you need to accept that slightly here means VERY SLIGHTLY at most.
BTW when chains snap from plates coming off the pin, it's always under high load, like when climbing, and no fun.
thanks
/markp
07-26-23, 10:01 AM
#11
Full Member
Thread Starter
BE WARNED.
BITD spreading plates to free a stiff link was SOP. However, modern chains are built differently, and spreading plates is now risky business.
While old chains had longer pins extending beyond the outer plates, modern chains are much narrower, and have short pins flush to the plates. Moreover they're peened or otherwise spread over the plate to ensure that the plates cannot move out from the side forces index shifting can create.
So when you spread the plate, you break off or, at least weaken the peen, and are working against a near zero margin for error.
This isn't to say you cannot safely spread plates SLIGHTLY, only that you need to accept that slightly here means VERY SLIGHTLY at most.
BTW when chains snap from plates coming off the pin, it's always under high load, like when climbing, and no fun.
BITD spreading plates to free a stiff link was SOP. However, modern chains are built differently, and spreading plates is now risky business.
While old chains had longer pins extending beyond the outer plates, modern chains are much narrower, and have short pins flush to the plates. Moreover they're peened or otherwise spread over the plate to ensure that the plates cannot move out from the side forces index shifting can create.
So when you spread the plate, you break off or, at least weaken the peen, and are working against a near zero margin for error.
This isn't to say you cannot safely spread plates SLIGHTLY, only that you need to accept that slightly here means VERY SLIGHTLY at most.
BTW when chains snap from plates coming off the pin, it's always under high load, like when climbing, and no fun.
07-26-23, 11:59 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,710
Bikes: Too many bikes, too little time to ride
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked 470 Times
in
325 Posts
BE WARNED.
BITD spreading plates to free a stiff link was SOP. However, modern chains are built differently, and spreading plates is now risky business.
While old chains had longer pins extending beyond the outer plates, modern chains are much narrower, and have short pins flush to the plates. Moreover they're peened or otherwise spread over the plate to ensure that the plates cannot move out from the side forces index shifting can create.
So when you spread the plate, you break off or, at least weaken the peen, and are working against a near zero margin for error.
This isn't to say you cannot safely spread plates SLIGHTLY, only that you need to accept that slightly here means VERY SLIGHTLY at most.
BTW when chains snap from plates coming off the pin, it's always under high load, like when climbing, and no fun.
BITD spreading plates to free a stiff link was SOP. However, modern chains are built differently, and spreading plates is now risky business.
While old chains had longer pins extending beyond the outer plates, modern chains are much narrower, and have short pins flush to the plates. Moreover they're peened or otherwise spread over the plate to ensure that the plates cannot move out from the side forces index shifting can create.
So when you spread the plate, you break off or, at least weaken the peen, and are working against a near zero margin for error.
This isn't to say you cannot safely spread plates SLIGHTLY, only that you need to accept that slightly here means VERY SLIGHTLY at most.
BTW when chains snap from plates coming off the pin, it's always under high load, like when climbing, and no fun.
07-26-23, 12:01 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,710
Bikes: Too many bikes, too little time to ride
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked 470 Times
in
325 Posts
Replacing the stiff link with a quick link should work fine. I once had a chain that stiffened up at a link due to the roller being dented such that no amount of physical flexing or lubrication was able to cure it.
07-26-23, 09:26 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,286
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked 460 Times
in
352 Posts
I just replaced my chain and the large chain ring. After a 1000 miles of use, one link in the chain is damaged so that it is very tight to flex/move. It causes jumping with the derailleur. In looking closer at the chain all the links are showing damage on the inside of the chain. Which I assume is the pins on the chain ring that help it shift from the small chain ring to large. Anyone have an idea on what is wrong here? Here is a link to a picture of the link that is totally bound:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5yk7z...1rxrtfp5k&dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5yk7z...1rxrtfp5k&dl=0
07-26-23, 09:59 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,509
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 982 Post(s)
Liked 1,646 Times
in
1,057 Posts
I am pretty conservative in replacing my bicycle components. But when it comes to questioning worn or troublesome chains I just replace them. I have had chains of the same manufacture and lot have vastly different life times. Some times a chain just goes sour and ya don't even know why.
Replace the chain stud and move on...
Replace the chain stud and move on...
__________________
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)