Toe Clips or MTB Cleats for Urban Riding
03-03-20, 01:18 PM
#101
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Typical cycling shoes from the '60s/'70s. The cleats were nailed on to the soles- in this case eventually screws/epoxy. To place the cleats, you would ride for a while and then put the slot of the cleat where the pedal marked the sole- where the foot wanted to be. Toe straps are adjusted to allow pulling the foot out readily, with difficulty, or not at all depending on conditions.
Basically still available:
https://www.amazon.com/Vittoria-1976-Cycling-Shoes-Black/dp/B07FQV812D/ref=sr_1_39?dchild=1&keywords=leather+cycling+shoes&https://dromarti.com/collections/road-shoes
Bicycle Shoe Cleats for Toeclip Pedals $29.95 at Yellow Jersey
Basically still available:
https://www.amazon.com/Vittoria-1976-Cycling-Shoes-Black/dp/B07FQV812D/ref=sr_1_39?dchild=1&keywords=leather+cycling+shoes&https://dromarti.com/collections/road-shoes
Bicycle Shoe Cleats for Toeclip Pedals $29.95 at Yellow Jersey
They are some cool looking shoes though, all retro. They ain't cheap though. They come with modern cleats now I assume but the same old way of fastening them?
03-03-20, 01:20 PM
#102
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03-03-20, 02:04 PM
#103
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You have me a little confused. These were actually early cleats that you used with toe clips and straps? You could not use just the cleat? If you could not use just the cleat what purpose did it serve inside the toe clip?
They are some cool looking shoes though, all retro. They ain't cheap though. They come with modern cleats now I assume but the same old way of fastening them?
They are some cool looking shoes though, all retro. They ain't cheap though. They come with modern cleats now I assume but the same old way of fastening them?
The slot in the cleat hooks on the back of the pedal itself , but it has no locking or latching mechanism to keep it there if the straps are not used
03-03-20, 02:31 PM
#104
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Lets take care of first things first. You traded my bronze Vette Convertable, I said Convertable, that we thought so much of we painted our Bike the same color, for a "Toyota Tacoma."?A Toyota Tacoma. I thought the sentence was going to read, " for a Shelby Cobra." But no, a Toyota Tacoma.That's like having no uplift in your pedal stroke.
Back to to the subject matter. Those guys are animals.No wonder people are afraid to show up at a track, total intimidation. I never thought of that, they actually use a cleated system and toe clips with double straps. From the looks of them though they are turning some serious Gs.
Fella 63 Rickert told me during the Golden Era of cycling in the 20s and 30s Track Racing was a serious money sport. That and Boxing the only two.
Back to to the subject matter. Those guys are animals.No wonder people are afraid to show up at a track, total intimidation. I never thought of that, they actually use a cleated system and toe clips with double straps. From the looks of them though they are turning some serious Gs.
Fella 63 Rickert told me during the Golden Era of cycling in the 20s and 30s Track Racing was a serious money sport. That and Boxing the only two.
Ehhh - there's worse things in life than driving a Toyo -- my vision for this as budget allows is to turn it into the ultimate MTB expedition Tacoma (the REAL ultimate MTB expedition vehicle is a Mercedes sprinter van with a mini motor home conversion ) -- but i'll be adding the racks and rooftop tent system as budget allows -- sadly a change in work situation meant I was looking at being a single guy with payments out on 2 vehicles, so the truck won out based on functionality
YEs - there is some g force on shorter tracks -- the most common banking for a 250 meter track is 45 degrees, or 33 degrees for a 333 metre track
This is a 250 meter track in the corners -- the whole track gets utilized, but the racing line is down close to the apron as that is the shortest line around (between the black and red lines )
Ouch - my face almost looks life size --- only pic I had showing how steep 45 degrees actually is ---- this pic was from the Superdrome in Dallas TX on the last day it was officially open --- they had been foreseeing a shutdown for months, so its obviously they didn't spend a lot of time on maintaining the boards
And -- this is why track bikes don't have brakes -- if anyone got nervous and hit the binders in a crowd like this , chaos would result pretty quick
Track racing was indeed a very serious sport back then -- Major Taylor was a track racer who was as recognizable as Tom Brady is today
Last edited by DMC707; 03-03-20 at 02:34 PM.
03-03-20, 02:32 PM
#105
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Thread Starter
I would not have guessed that because where that cleat is located on that particular shoe doesn't look like it is where it hits the back plate of a touring pedal. It looks too far forward. If it just hooks onto the back plate of the pedal what real purpose does it serve, foot retention? It is going to make bailing out more difficult. Don't let " Paul Barnard see this, he will have both of ya'll arrested for unsafe bicycling practices.
03-03-20, 02:59 PM
#106
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Thread Starter
Ehhh - there's worse things in life than driving a Toyo -- my vision for this as budget allows is to turn it into the ultimate MTB expedition Tacoma (the REAL ultimate MTB expedition vehicle is a Mercedes sprinter van with a mini motor home conversion ) -- but i'll be adding the racks and rooftop tent system as budget allows -- sadly a change in work situation meant I was looking at being a single guy with payments out on 2 vehicles, so the truck won out based on functionality
YEs - there is some g force on shorter tracks -- the most common banking for a 250 meter track is 45 degrees, or 33 degrees for a 333 metre track
This is a 250 meter track in the corners -- the whole track gets utilized, but the racing line is down close to the apron as that is the shortest line around (between the black and red lines )
Ouch - my face almost looks life size --- only pic I had showing how steep 45 degrees actually is ---- this pic was from the Superdrome in Dallas TX on the last day it was officially open --- they had been foreseeing a shutdown for months, so its obviously they didn't spend a lot of time on maintaining the boards
And -- this is why track bikes don't have brakes -- if anyone got nervous and hit the binders in a crowd like this , chaos would result pretty quick
Track racing was indeed a very serious sport back then -- Major Taylor was a track racer who was as recognizable as Tom Brady is today
YEs - there is some g force on shorter tracks -- the most common banking for a 250 meter track is 45 degrees, or 33 degrees for a 333 metre track
This is a 250 meter track in the corners -- the whole track gets utilized, but the racing line is down close to the apron as that is the shortest line around (between the black and red lines )
Ouch - my face almost looks life size --- only pic I had showing how steep 45 degrees actually is ---- this pic was from the Superdrome in Dallas TX on the last day it was officially open --- they had been foreseeing a shutdown for months, so its obviously they didn't spend a lot of time on maintaining the boards
And -- this is why track bikes don't have brakes -- if anyone got nervous and hit the binders in a crowd like this , chaos would result pretty quick
Track racing was indeed a very serious sport back then -- Major Taylor was a track racer who was as recognizable as Tom Brady is today
03-03-20, 03:11 PM
#107
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Thread Starter
Ehhh - there's worse things in life than driving a Toyo -- my vision for this as budget allows is to turn it into the ultimate MTB expedition Tacoma (the REAL ultimate MTB expedition vehicle is a Mercedes sprinter van with a mini motor home conversion ) -- but i'll be adding the racks and rooftop tent system as budget allows -- sadly a change in work situation meant I was looking at being a single guy with payments out on 2 vehicles, so the truck won out based on functionality
YEs - there is some g force on shorter tracks -- the most common banking for a 250 meter track is 45 degrees, or 33 degrees for a 333 metre track
This is a 250 meter track in the corners -- the whole track gets utilized, but the racing line is down close to the apron as that is the shortest line around (between the black and red lines )
Ouch - my face almost looks life size --- only pic I had showing how steep 45 degrees actually is ---- this pic was from the Superdrome in Dallas TX on the last day it was officially open --- they had been foreseeing a shutdown for months, so its obviously they didn't spend a lot of time on maintaining the boards
And -- this is why track bikes don't have brakes -- if anyone got nervous and hit the binders in a crowd like this , chaos would result pretty quick
Track racing was indeed a very serious sport back then -- Major Taylor was a track racer who was as recognizable as Tom Brady is today
YEs - there is some g force on shorter tracks -- the most common banking for a 250 meter track is 45 degrees, or 33 degrees for a 333 metre track
This is a 250 meter track in the corners -- the whole track gets utilized, but the racing line is down close to the apron as that is the shortest line around (between the black and red lines )
Ouch - my face almost looks life size --- only pic I had showing how steep 45 degrees actually is ---- this pic was from the Superdrome in Dallas TX on the last day it was officially open --- they had been foreseeing a shutdown for months, so its obviously they didn't spend a lot of time on maintaining the boards
And -- this is why track bikes don't have brakes -- if anyone got nervous and hit the binders in a crowd like this , chaos would result pretty quick
Track racing was indeed a very serious sport back then -- Major Taylor was a track racer who was as recognizable as Tom Brady is today
Forty five degrees is some serious banking. I guesse that is what you need to stay glued to the track. Why did the Superdrome close, lack of demand? The way you stated it, people still go out there and tool around? I have never really seen a Velodrome, are they dying out? I hope not. I did not see one disc or mag wheel. What kind of set up do you have?
That is what 63Rickert said. Track Cicyling (I thought he said road racing too) and Boxing were the only big money sports back in the 20s and 30s. The only ones. I wonder what caused cicyling to decline so much
03-03-20, 08:52 PM
#108
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Forty five degrees is some serious banking. I guesse that is what you need to stay glued to the track. Why did the Superdrome close, lack of demand? The way you stated it, people still go out there and tool around? I have never really seen a Velodrome, are they dying out? I hope not. I did not see one disc or mag wheel. What kind of set up do you have?
That is what 63Rickert said. Track Cicyling (I thought he said road racing too) and Boxing were the only big money sports back in the 20s and 30s. The only ones. I wonder what caused cicyling to decline so much
a shallower concrete track is much easier to learn on, - most of the 45 degree tracks. Require at least a one day certification class to learn how to ride on them-and maintaining speed is critical because if you go to slow it will slide down the banking (not fun).
the Superdrome was on land leased from a local community college and when the lease expired the college decided it literally needed the space more for parking as the enrollment at the school had quadrupled in the 20 years that the track had been there
The last time I drove past there end it was currently a pasture. A group of folks dismantled the framework of the track and have it in storage somewhere and are looking for a new home for it last I heard.
But that particular ride day was not a race, it was just a training day and not very many people subject the race wheels (discs, 3 and 5 spoke wheels, super deep section aero wheels)to every day use and abuse .
Besides, in that particular case of being an outdoor track in North Texas-the wind and push you around pretty good with aero wheels sometimes
03-03-20, 09:11 PM
#109
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[QUOTE=mjac;21350662]
I started BMX because i lived over 6 hours away from the closest velodrome, and for a short time period, there were some crossover BMX guys who transitioned to track (until they realized they were making more money racing bmx). So i figured id do the opposite and try bmx . The explosiveness and power output needed to get a good start in bmx was not completely unlike what is needed in a track standing start
My buddy had a 84 Mongoose Californian in his attic so i asked him if i could try it -- and hed get a rebuilt bike back in the process. The whole thing started as a goof -- using a 15 year old bike with the retro helmet etc. but it got us a lot of style points in 1999. (I was 27 years old)
I won a few and lost lots more , but worked my way to intermediate very quickly, then decided that the work it would take to get to expert wasnt worth it to me at that point, so i quit and resumed concentrating on track
but more on point for this thread, although im riding on spiky platforms in my national pic, i grew to hate them. Not growing up a bmx'er, i was much more comfortable with clipless pedals, and that was a time period where they were first getting used on bmx bikes, so i said why not, and robbed the pedals off my seldom used mtb to put on the bike (and a classic Mongoose with clipless pedals on it looks really odd) --
my results got better with clipless, but that was due to my decade of prior experience with them. A lot of bmx guys hated them back then
I started BMX because i lived over 6 hours away from the closest velodrome, and for a short time period, there were some crossover BMX guys who transitioned to track (until they realized they were making more money racing bmx). So i figured id do the opposite and try bmx . The explosiveness and power output needed to get a good start in bmx was not completely unlike what is needed in a track standing start
My buddy had a 84 Mongoose Californian in his attic so i asked him if i could try it -- and hed get a rebuilt bike back in the process. The whole thing started as a goof -- using a 15 year old bike with the retro helmet etc. but it got us a lot of style points in 1999. (I was 27 years old)
I won a few and lost lots more , but worked my way to intermediate very quickly, then decided that the work it would take to get to expert wasnt worth it to me at that point, so i quit and resumed concentrating on track
but more on point for this thread, although im riding on spiky platforms in my national pic, i grew to hate them. Not growing up a bmx'er, i was much more comfortable with clipless pedals, and that was a time period where they were first getting used on bmx bikes, so i said why not, and robbed the pedals off my seldom used mtb to put on the bike (and a classic Mongoose with clipless pedals on it looks really odd) --
my results got better with clipless, but that was due to my decade of prior experience with them. A lot of bmx guys hated them back then
03-03-20, 10:01 PM
#110
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Thread Starter
[QUOTE=DMC707;21352344]
I started BMX because i lived over 6 hours away from the closest velodrome, and for a short time period, there were some crossover BMX guys who transitioned to track (until they realized they were making more money racing bmx). So i figured id do the opposite and try bmx . The explosiveness and power output needed to get a good start in bmx was not completely unlike what is needed in a track standing start
My buddy had a 84 Mongoose Californian in his attic so i asked him if i could try it -- and hed get a rebuilt bike back in the process. The whole thing started as a goof -- using a 15 year old bike with the retro helmet etc. but it got us a lot of style points in 1999. (I was 27 years old)
I won a few and lost lots more , but worked my way to intermediate very quickly, then decided that the work it would take to get to expert wasnt worth it to me at that point, so i quit and resumed concentrating on track
but more on point for this thread, although im riding on spiky platforms in my national pic, i grew to hate them. Not growing up a bmx'er, i was much more comfortable with clipless pedals, and that was a time period where they were first getting used on bmx bikes, so i said why not, and robbed the pedals off my seldom used mtb to put on the bike (and a classic Mongoose with clipless pedals on it looks really odd) --
my results got better with clipless, but that was due to my decade of prior experience with them. A lot of bmx guys hated them back then
So you really were a Track Racer who tried BMX then went back to your roots on the Track. It sounds like in BMX you were at least pretty competitive, not elite but competitive. I don't know how you have done on the Track. Are you still doing or has the bike gone down the same path as the Vette?
Young guys trying to hustle money in BMX in the 80s and 90s and the Golden Era Track Pros in the 20s and 30s riding for big bucks. Quite a comparison. I wonder what made Track Racing so big back then.
I started BMX because i lived over 6 hours away from the closest velodrome, and for a short time period, there were some crossover BMX guys who transitioned to track (until they realized they were making more money racing bmx). So i figured id do the opposite and try bmx . The explosiveness and power output needed to get a good start in bmx was not completely unlike what is needed in a track standing start
My buddy had a 84 Mongoose Californian in his attic so i asked him if i could try it -- and hed get a rebuilt bike back in the process. The whole thing started as a goof -- using a 15 year old bike with the retro helmet etc. but it got us a lot of style points in 1999. (I was 27 years old)
I won a few and lost lots more , but worked my way to intermediate very quickly, then decided that the work it would take to get to expert wasnt worth it to me at that point, so i quit and resumed concentrating on track
but more on point for this thread, although im riding on spiky platforms in my national pic, i grew to hate them. Not growing up a bmx'er, i was much more comfortable with clipless pedals, and that was a time period where they were first getting used on bmx bikes, so i said why not, and robbed the pedals off my seldom used mtb to put on the bike (and a classic Mongoose with clipless pedals on it looks really odd) --
my results got better with clipless, but that was due to my decade of prior experience with them. A lot of bmx guys hated them back then
Young guys trying to hustle money in BMX in the 80s and 90s and the Golden Era Track Pros in the 20s and 30s riding for big bucks. Quite a comparison. I wonder what made Track Racing so big back then.
Last edited by mjac; 03-03-20 at 10:44 PM.
03-03-20, 10:17 PM
#111
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Ehhh - there's worse things in life than driving a Toyo -- my vision for this as budget allows is to turn it into the ultimate MTB expedition Tacoma (the REAL ultimate MTB expedition vehicle is a Mercedes sprinter van with a mini motor home conversion ) -- but i'll be adding the racks and rooftop tent system as budget allows -- sadly a change in work situation meant I was looking at being a single guy with payments out on 2 vehicles, so the truck won out based on functionality
YEs - there is some g force on shorter tracks -- the most common banking for a 250 meter track is 45 degrees, or 33 degrees for a 333 metre track
This is a 250 meter track in the corners -- the whole track gets utilized, but the racing line is down close to the apron as that is the shortest line around (between the black and red lines )
Ouch - my face almost looks life size --- only pic I had showing how steep 45 degrees actually is ---- this pic was from the Superdrome in Dallas TX on the last day it was officially open --- they had been foreseeing a shutdown for months, so its obviously they didn't spend a lot of time on maintaining the boards
And -- this is why track bikes don't have brakes -- if anyone got nervous and hit the binders in a crowd like this , chaos would result pretty quick
Track racing was indeed a very serious sport back then -- Major Taylor was a track racer who was as recognizable as Tom Brady is today
YEs - there is some g force on shorter tracks -- the most common banking for a 250 meter track is 45 degrees, or 33 degrees for a 333 metre track
This is a 250 meter track in the corners -- the whole track gets utilized, but the racing line is down close to the apron as that is the shortest line around (between the black and red lines )
Ouch - my face almost looks life size --- only pic I had showing how steep 45 degrees actually is ---- this pic was from the Superdrome in Dallas TX on the last day it was officially open --- they had been foreseeing a shutdown for months, so its obviously they didn't spend a lot of time on maintaining the boards
And -- this is why track bikes don't have brakes -- if anyone got nervous and hit the binders in a crowd like this , chaos would result pretty quick
Track racing was indeed a very serious sport back then -- Major Taylor was a track racer who was as recognizable as Tom Brady is today
The bottom pic reminds me of this:
03-04-20, 08:20 AM
#112
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You lost me. Asking someone what are the advantages and disadvantages of toe clips and the advantages and disadvantages of MTB Cleated Systems in Urban Riding to give people information to help them decide which system to use, especially beginning riders is creep? You don't think beginning riders need information? You don't think having a cost-benefit analysis would benefit a beginning rider deciding how much to invest initially? You don't think beginning riders ride in urban settings? That is where they start. In familiar surroundings. They are not going out on a country road and doing 40 miles. Like I said you lost me. Information is key to retain people in the sport once they decide to try it. Maybe the information will lead to neither and lead to a flat for beginners. But you need information.You are saying information is a detriment? Explain.
"We are having a debate here. Please list the advantages and disadvantages of using Toe Clips and Straps for Urban Riding and the advantages and is disadvantages of using recessed MTB Cleats for Urban Riding. Including problems with the Toe Clip Strap hanging up or Toe Clip hindering a Bailout and MTB Cleats not cleating up or not uncleating causing a problem. What incidents have you had with either that created an unsafe situation? Compare costs, ease of use, maintenance and safety...Thanks,mjac"
Now, let's look for the overlap with your opening problem, a debate, and your later more formulated problem, giving people information to guide them. These are two separate reasons for beginning and then continuing the thread. To my eye, you started a thread with little thought outside the former, and then crept to the objective stated in the latter. In the professional world, this will get you crushed in short order. That's my point.
03-04-20, 08:56 AM
#113
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Thread Starter
Fine. Just so you are aware how you began this thread, I'll quote it back to you:
"We are having a debate here. Please list the advantages and disadvantages of using Toe Clips and Straps for Urban Riding and the advantages and is disadvantages of using recessed MTB Cleats for Urban Riding. Including problems with the Toe Clip Strap hanging up or Toe Clip hindering a Bailout and MTB Cleats not cleating up or not uncleating causing a problem. What incidents have you had with either that created an unsafe situation? Compare costs, ease of use, maintenance and safety...Thanks,mjac"
Now, let's look for the overlap with your opening problem, a debate, and your later more formulated problem, giving people information to guide them. These are two separate reasons for beginning and then continuing the thread. To my eye, you started a thread with little thought outside the former, and then crept to the objective stated in the latter. In the professional world, this will get you crushed in short order. That's my point.
"We are having a debate here. Please list the advantages and disadvantages of using Toe Clips and Straps for Urban Riding and the advantages and is disadvantages of using recessed MTB Cleats for Urban Riding. Including problems with the Toe Clip Strap hanging up or Toe Clip hindering a Bailout and MTB Cleats not cleating up or not uncleating causing a problem. What incidents have you had with either that created an unsafe situation? Compare costs, ease of use, maintenance and safety...Thanks,mjac"
Now, let's look for the overlap with your opening problem, a debate, and your later more formulated problem, giving people information to guide them. These are two separate reasons for beginning and then continuing the thread. To my eye, you started a thread with little thought outside the former, and then crept to the objective stated in the latter. In the professional world, this will get you crushed in short order. That's my point.
The use of the word Debate was a metaphor for the free flow of information to hash it out as in the English form of Debate. Not to be taken in the American literal sense. Therefore the "Debate" is the providing of information. They are not mutually exclusive. Providing information through the process of debate. In this case the advantages and disadvantages of toe clips and straps and MTB Cleated Systems. Providing information to base a decision on what fits your riding style. The process of this debate did that. So your argument is specious at best. At best.
03-04-20, 09:19 AM
#114
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I’m either going with clipless or flat pedal (no toe clips).
There are clip-less shoes that are pretty comfortable to walk around in.
But really, I think any sort of foot retention is completely unnecessary and more hassle than it is worth for urban riding.
I use both flats and clip-less for road and MTB. Ever since I first tried clip-less 21 years ago, I’ve never once even considered going back to toe clips.
But that’s me. Use whatever you like.
There are clip-less shoes that are pretty comfortable to walk around in.
But really, I think any sort of foot retention is completely unnecessary and more hassle than it is worth for urban riding.
I use both flats and clip-less for road and MTB. Ever since I first tried clip-less 21 years ago, I’ve never once even considered going back to toe clips.
But that’s me. Use whatever you like.
03-04-20, 12:33 PM
#116
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Ride what you like, flats works for me, YRMV. This is like a chain lube or disc/rim brake thing. Just pedal, repeat as needed.
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03-04-20, 01:34 PM
#117
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My return to clips and straps was for shoe flexibility (and familiarity).
As far as upward pulling on acceleration in urban or commuter riding I can see an advantage with either, but after commuting in center city Philadelphia and into DC back when I used clips it was not realistically an issue at lights. I was not doing a Peter Sagan TdF sprint between lights, while dodging cars, manhole covers, trolley tracks, or potholes. So the straps were kept loose. If I needed a bit of pull up, I just raised my toes on the upstroke to not pull out of the clips.
On a Hmmm, note, I always wondered why I had issues unclipping if the pedals were clipless....
03-05-20, 01:45 PM
#118
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Having had a few unclip incidents with clipless pedals, I will heartily agree that is was OE or (Operator Error) a/k/a MY fault! The pedals were top flight (Shimano SPD PD-9020 XTR platforms), set for full loose, with SH-56 multi-release cleats. I never had one unclip unexpectedly when I did a climb or a fast sprint. Far more common than a failure to unclip, was for me not getting clipped back in at first try with my right foot after re-starting from a stop. I eventually had to paint small white lines on the edge of the soles to help with alignment. Yes, they were double sided pedals.
My return to clips and straps was for shoe flexibility (and familiarity).
As far as upward pulling on acceleration in urban or commuter riding I can see an advantage with either, but after commuting in center city Philadelphia and into DC back when I used clips it was not realistically an issue at lights. I was not doing a Peter Sagan TdF sprint between lights, while dodging cars, manhole covers, trolley tracks, or potholes. So the straps were kept loose. If I needed a bit of pull up, I just raised my toes on the upstroke to not pull out of the clips.
On a Hmmm, note, I always wondered why I had issues unclipping if the pedals were clipless....
My return to clips and straps was for shoe flexibility (and familiarity).
As far as upward pulling on acceleration in urban or commuter riding I can see an advantage with either, but after commuting in center city Philadelphia and into DC back when I used clips it was not realistically an issue at lights. I was not doing a Peter Sagan TdF sprint between lights, while dodging cars, manhole covers, trolley tracks, or potholes. So the straps were kept loose. If I needed a bit of pull up, I just raised my toes on the upstroke to not pull out of the clips.
On a Hmmm, note, I always wondered why I had issues unclipping if the pedals were clipless....
Cheers
03-05-20, 04:45 PM
#119
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Quick acceleration? You lose some of that trying to get cliiped in ... pretty much every time. if a sudden burst of speed is what you need, flats are the way ... because it is Stomp and Go!, not "fish around for the opening" or "slide around for the cleat."
A good clipless pedal (I like Shimano XT) gives decent purchase unclipped but you aren't getting anything on the upstroke unclipped----and the tiny amount you might gain on the upstroke is countered by the compromised power output of not having a firm purchase on the pedal.
And for safety, 100 percent flat pedals .... because it is almost impossible to dive and rill with cleats or clips (ask me how it feels to have a semi trailer roll over your leg because you couldn't unclip fast enough .... ) I compensate for clipping in by riding smarter, but for really risky commuting I used flat pedals almost all the time and the ability to get away from the bike---or to pick up my leg on the side where the car was about to crush it---has helped me a bunch.
I think now I would go with the XTs in just about any situation ... or maybe look for something with even more of a platform ... toe clips are just the worst---slow to get in and out, and your shoe can get caught in the strap. There is a reason the system has been abandoned. (All of this is my opinion, based on years of riding in what were, at the time the deadliest cycling cities in the U.S. Still just opinion.)
I'd recommend---and would myself use---a two-bolt cleated pedal with a really large platform.
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03-05-20, 09:31 PM
#120
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I have dome a lot of urban riding on flats, clips, and clipless.
Quick acceleration? You lose some of that trying to get cliiped in ... pretty much every time. if a sudden burst of speed is what you need, flats are the way ... because it is Stomp and Go!, not "fish around for the opening" or "slide around for the cleat."
A good clipless pedal (I like Shimano XT) gives decent purchase unclipped but you aren't getting anything on the upstroke unclipped----and the tiny amount you might gain on the upstroke is countered by the compromised power output of not having a firm purchase on the pedal.
And for safety, 100 percent flat pedals .... because it is almost impossible to dive and rill with cleats or clips (ask me how it feels to have a semi trailer roll over your leg because you couldn't unclip fast enough .... ) I compensate for clipping in by riding smarter, but for really risky commuting I used flat pedals almost all the time and the ability to get away from the bike---or to pick up my leg on the side where the car was about to crush it---has helped me a bunch.
I think now I would go with the XTs in just about any situation ... or maybe look for something with even more of a platform ... toe clips are just the worst---slow to get in and out, and your shoe can get caught in the strap. There is a reason the system has been abandoned. (All of this is my opinion, based on years of riding in what were, at the time the deadliest cycling cities in the U.S. Still just opinion.)
I'd recommend---and would myself use---a two-bolt cleated pedal with a really large platform.
Quick acceleration? You lose some of that trying to get cliiped in ... pretty much every time. if a sudden burst of speed is what you need, flats are the way ... because it is Stomp and Go!, not "fish around for the opening" or "slide around for the cleat."
A good clipless pedal (I like Shimano XT) gives decent purchase unclipped but you aren't getting anything on the upstroke unclipped----and the tiny amount you might gain on the upstroke is countered by the compromised power output of not having a firm purchase on the pedal.
And for safety, 100 percent flat pedals .... because it is almost impossible to dive and rill with cleats or clips (ask me how it feels to have a semi trailer roll over your leg because you couldn't unclip fast enough .... ) I compensate for clipping in by riding smarter, but for really risky commuting I used flat pedals almost all the time and the ability to get away from the bike---or to pick up my leg on the side where the car was about to crush it---has helped me a bunch.
I think now I would go with the XTs in just about any situation ... or maybe look for something with even more of a platform ... toe clips are just the worst---slow to get in and out, and your shoe can get caught in the strap. There is a reason the system has been abandoned. (All of this is my opinion, based on years of riding in what were, at the time the deadliest cycling cities in the U.S. Still just opinion.)
I'd recommend---and would myself use---a two-bolt cleated pedal with a really large platform.
Last edited by mjac; 03-06-20 at 01:26 AM.
03-05-20, 10:07 PM
#121
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I use Time Expresso -style cleats on the road most of the time and like them very much. But I am not doing stoplight-to-stoplights sprints, trying to cross intersections diagonally on short lights while half the other people jump them and the other half run the reds .... i don't face a constant stream of cars blasting out of driveways and side streets looking past a bike to see no car and deciding it is safe to go ... I don't face people crossing three lanes of traffic while looking over their shoulders and not seeing me in the bike lane ahead of them ..... I don't ride urban environments at all any more. So in that case I do as I said above. But you didn't ask about that in your original post, which is what I replied to.
Cost? Tell me what you think things cost and what you think is justified. Obviously I do, else I wouldn't do it. But then, maybe I find better deals than you. So until I know what your costs are and how you estimate value, i cannot say more than I have.
Cost? Tell me what you think things cost and what you think is justified. Obviously I do, else I wouldn't do it. But then, maybe I find better deals than you. So until I know what your costs are and how you estimate value, i cannot say more than I have.
03-06-20, 01:36 AM
#122
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I use Time Expresso -style cleats on the road most of the time and like them very much. But I am not doing stoplight-to-stoplights sprints, trying to cross intersections diagonally on short lights while half the other people jump them and the other half run the reds .... i don't face a constant stream of cars blasting out of driveways and side streets looking past a bike to see no car and deciding it is safe to go ... I don't face people crossing three lanes of traffic while looking over their shoulders and not seeing me in the bike lane ahead of them ..... I don't ride urban environments at all any more. So in that case I do as I said above. But you didn't ask about that in your original post, which is what I replied to.
Cost? Tell me what you think things cost and what you think is justified. Obviously I do, else I wouldn't do it. But then, maybe I find better deals than you. So until I know what your costs are and how you estimate value, i cannot say more than I have.
Cost? Tell me what you think things cost and what you think is justified. Obviously I do, else I wouldn't do it. But then, maybe I find better deals than you. So until I know what your costs are and how you estimate value, i cannot say more than I have.
03-06-20, 09:15 PM
#123
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If I struggled with clipless like some folks in this thread do, I might not ride them.
But my experience has been that I have zero issues getting in or out of them.
I can put a foot down or get out of them for all practical purposes as fast as a flat pedal.
Getting back in is usually accomplished by the end of the first pedal stroke.
I use Frogs for road and mtb. But as I said earlier, I just don’t see the point for urban riding.
But my experience has been that I have zero issues getting in or out of them.
I can put a foot down or get out of them for all practical purposes as fast as a flat pedal.
Getting back in is usually accomplished by the end of the first pedal stroke.
I use Frogs for road and mtb. But as I said earlier, I just don’t see the point for urban riding.
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03-06-20, 11:22 PM
#124
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You do not ride in an urban environment. So you have a system that fits the type of riding that you do. My question basically was is it worth investing $200 - $300 in a MTB Cleat system and Shoes to do Urban riding, nothing else. Do they offer enough benefits doing urban riding to justify the costs.
03-07-20, 07:38 AM
#125
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My opinion would be no for strictly urban riding, though I rode around Syracuse, Rochester, Albany and even NYC with just clipless and had no trouble. If you're doing any other kind of riding and want better performance then sure. XTs dual sided platform pedal is worth it to me but that's cause I can just walk out the door with the bike and go. I can hit the trails without kids, clip in and not worry. But at 100 for pedals and 250+ for shoes that fit wide feet I'd want more than just clipless. Other thing is that most people I know that ride th street more for fun don't do it clipped in. Whether bmx or mountain the can still bunny hop and do their stunts on platforms. Course it's easier to recover from a bad manual if you're not clipped in and proper technique for hopping is best learned on flats.