repechage

They were like $10. - 43 years ago.
I do have a NOS, NIP set of his Cinelli 1A stem hardware. Waiting for that perfect build.
And a set of the black anodized Nuovo Record mechanism bolts.

repechage

Not necessarily so.
Normally an early Phil cartridge would have a turn to 1.5 threads showing. They were the terrific way to fine tune chainline.
Also, the primary reason we used them was when there was a Bottom bracket shell problem, undersize, not parallel face, too much material required shaved off to square thing up.
They had like three road spindles and a track spindle, then 5. At one time I had their original reference materials, problem was even then, the cartridges were not marked. Hello?

Salamandrine 

They still are a great way to tune a chainline, which is why I still love them and they are on two of my bikes. I'm perhaps a bit OCD about chainline.
A thread to a thread and a half - that sounds about right. Relatively flush I should have said. They could be dead flush on a new build if the shell was left unfaced. At least that's what I remember. Maybe they varied slightly. My modern ones leave about 3 threads exposed on the drive side.

Have you ever dealt with this apparently first generation type? Looks like the mounting rings may have been slightly different. Supposedly the bearings were soldered in. Not sure how that worked. I mostly worked on the 2nd generation Phil BB. Those were made for a long time. Wouldn't surprise me if some small changes were made within that type. The shop where I was at that mostly used them for custom built up touring bikes, rather than for solving any specific problems. Usually they got paired up with a custom assembled TA crankset.

https://phil-wood-co.myshopify.com/pages/histroy

noglider 

You just reminded me that I used to cut the handle off my hairbrush, to save space, not weight. Who needs the handle, anyway?

repechage

did not see a silver soldered version. The "second" gen started with a silver barrel, then it went darker. Bearing seal type evolved. I suspect that the early ones did not perform terrific a some point.
The lip seal was a contact seal, felt "draggy" at the onset, and loosened up with time. At some point got too loose.

I just ordered replacement bearings for an OMAS big sliding Bottom bracket. Went Ceramic... styling.

alexnagui

What happened to that thread in your post? Was it removed?

T-Mar

The OMAS version...

63rickert

Lots of small changes continuously to early Phil hubs and brackets as they kept breaking.

Remember the 3x5 card in the hub box that said 0.004” free play at rim was normal? Bike would roll down road with wheel flapping side to side. If you could tolerate the flap the bearings were sure to wear out in short order. I still see those old hubs and test the free play. Owner always tells me they were the greatest thing ever and I know the bike has never been ridden. Amazing how reputation can be built by marketing parts that are not and cannot be used.

crank_addict

Thanks for posting the advert. Really neat to see and almost better than the actual items.

Fascinating company. Rumor is they produced much for Campagnolo including for a long time some of the Record / Super Record cranks, titanium spindle parts ~ bottom bracket, pedals. Beautiful but longevity and robustness challenged.

The other was fine casting of small parts and machining jobs for the great Italian auto performance marques. Weber carburetors too.

crank_addict

Add to the caveat, Phil disc brake.

Anyways, what era or series hubs were problematic? And thanks for the heads-up. I suppose should closely examine the hubs on my 1980 Santana tandem.

Other older Phil component I have is a bottom bracket in a 1973 Motobecane Le Champion. Swiss threaded. I acquired it from the original owner and when finally getting around to a full service, I got the surprise. Inquired but the prior owner hadn't recalled when he changed it out. Fortunately, it still spins pretty good though I think grease in any older sealed bearing simply can't have such life, contrary to synthetic grease.

bikemig 

I've been surprised by how well sealed units work even after a lot of years. Certainly the sealed BB on this bike still spins nicely. Heck I might just try to mount up my stronglight crank and see if it works.

Salamandrine 

I think they used Phil wood grease from pretty much the beginning, but that's a lot of years to expect grease to last. If it still feels smooth it should be OK, if not optimum for a world tour. FYI Phil Wood will put new bearings in your BB for IIRC $30-35. (not for oddball first gen soldered type though) service@philwood.com

Yes, I remember the cards and the hair of looseness - technically a hair and a half. I don't recall any problems from it, but I never used Phil hubs on my own bikes. Campagnolo rules dude. I'm sure there were plenty of things that needed improvement over the years, but being first is always difficult. There were no cartridge sealed bike hubs before Phil invented them. (That I know of - anyone got something earlier?) Much of modern hub design would be very different without the influence of Phil Wood.

crank_addict

Thanks for the insight of Phil's service.

I think Phil preceded other sealed bearing bottom bracket and hubs such as British Lambert / Viscount. They also early on had a bad reputation, including snapped spindles. Though I rebuilt my 1976 Aerospace Pro, fully intentional to keep its character by reusing the sealed hubs and bottom bracket.

Hadn't seen any concern of potential failure and I suppose by then they worked the prior issues out. But of course, we know the rest of the story of that company.

Amazing simple procedure changing all bearings and the price was ridiculous cheap, cross referenced bearing numbers and purchased on Amazon.

I think they're really cool and work silky smooth. Will the Chinese replacement bearings hold up-- who knows?! Regardless, the Viscount hubs have style over the rather mundane Phil.

T-Mar

That is in agreement with my understanding. They were also an early manufacturer of magnesium automobile and motorcycle wheels and reportedly owned by Campagnolo in the mid-1970s. It makes me wonder if those claims of World Championship winning magnesium wheels on the Ferrari and MV Augusta of the era were actually Campagnolo branded OMAS manufacture.

63rickert

My hubs were ‘73. Very easy to identify the old and bad ones. With wheels in bike, bike on ground, wiggle the rim side to side. The free play is evident. So far as I have ever known there is no practical way to adjust end play on these hubs. Some riders couldn’t stand the play and would not ride them at all. I put up with it, bearings lasted maybe 1000 miles. Free play got worse, rear bearings got plain crunchy. Back then there was no UPS. The Post Office did not like wheel boxes. So the drill was unlace the wheels, box the hubs, mail to Phil. In 4 to 8 weeks he would send them back with new bearings. And you could rebuild your wheel. Second time I sent the hubs back he did not replace bearings and instead sent new hubs. Handwritten note in box that the new design would solve all my problems and hubs would last half of forever. Again they had the shakes and again went about 1000 miles. That was the last I bothered with those hubs. Round file. This would have been 1974. Next time I paid any attention was a decade later. The hubs were good by then.

As for the bottom bracket. I was fool enough to install one in the Gloria. Was flying down Clark Street, Chicago at perhaps 120rpm on a fixed gear of 24x10. The BB froze solid. No idea what broke. Bike shop removed the shrapnel while I was still shaking. The pedals stopped instantly. Of course the bike and the rider went flying. This would also be later in 1974. After that I wasn’t about to have anything more to do with Phil Wood.

Of course there were other cartridge bearing hubs. I am currently riding a set of Sanshin hubs from 1960 that are same as the hubs that were well marketed in US in later 1970s. Phil was not doing anything new.

ThermionicScott 

Maxi-Car, perhaps?

T-Mar

The answer to this depends on pedantic you choose to be. There were certainly cartridge bearing hubs well before Phil Wood. However, the bearing cartridge itself did not have an integral rubber seal like used on the Phil Wood hubs. They used a traditional dust cap as an external seal, sometimes with a intermediary seal. Phil Wood eliminated the dust cap by using cartridge bearings with integral rubber seals and I believe they were the first to use this style on bicycle hubs.

Consequently, the pre-Phil Wood cartridge bearing hubs still required lubrication, though when they did eventually wear out, you could simply replace the bearing cartridge and didn't have to worry about pitted pitted cups and cones. Phil Wood took the evolution on step further by utilizing a sealed, maintenance free cartridge bearing.