WGB 

Two questions

(and I hope I've named the parts correctly)

1) Photos 1 and 2 show how little grease was left after the dried chunks fell out

I had always believed that the bottom bracket bearings needed a lot of grease and assumed that's what was in the bottom bracket of every bike.

I've got a League Fuji I am resurrecting and it clearly had not been touched in years. When I opened it up the bottom bracket I was surprised that there were just a few tiny chunks of hardened grease that fell out. The inside of the bearing was not rusted, suggesting that there hadn't been more grease that had somehow leaked out (if it was loose enough for grease to escape then moisture should have got in).

I looked online and saw videos showing people adding relatively little grease inside the bearing cups, seemingly just enough to barely cover the individual bearings or retainer cages (depending on choice). The installers would then add a film of grease over the crank axle and reassemble.

Am I missing something? Shouldn't be adding a lot of grease??? If a little grease will protect the axle and the bearings won't a lot be even more protective?

2) Photo 3 shows stuck drive side bearing cup

The crank retaining nuts came off with no issues as did the non-drive side (left) bearing cup. The drive side (right) bearing cup refused to move. Can I simply finish cleaning out the old grease, new add grease and new bearings or retainer cages without removing the stuck cup or it best to spray with a penetrating agent and then letting it soak and try again. I have watched videos but don't have access to impact wrench.

Until last summer I had never even changed a bike tire and now I am getting quite bold at what I am trying but putting a bolt in through the bracket and torquing on it with wrench and a cheater bar until the bearing cup compresses and turns is way outside of my comfort zone and I have visions of somehow crushing the BB and destroying the frame.

Is it necessary to remove and grease that stuck bearing cup? Will leaving it in somehow cause issues with reassembly?

alcjphil

Good for you. Drive side cups can be difficult to remove. Do you have a workbench with a good vice? That is the best tool to grip the flats on that driveside cup. You can then use the bike frame as leverage to remove it, keeping in mind that the threading is left handed. Once you get it out you can examine it to make sure that the bearing surfaces are not pitted

JohnDThompson 

You can add a lot of grease if you prefer. Anything above what is needed will just leak out eventually. Finding "dried chunks" in the bottom bracket suggests to me that it has been a while since last overhauled. Bearing grease is an emulsion of oil and soap; over time the oil can separate from the soap and leak out, leaving the soap component behind. Routine maintenance can prevent this from happening by replacing old, separated grease with fresh grease.

Hellgate

Once a fixed cup is set it seldom is removed. Just clean it out and add some good grease. Phil is long lasting, or a good lithium grease.

Don Buska

How To Remove Stuck/Seized/Frozen Bottom Bracket Fixed Cup by RJ the Bike Guy

HillRider

I want to emphasize the point that the drive side (fixed) cup is left-hand threaded and removes clockwise. As noted they are often installed very tight and should be reinstalled very tight, like 30-35 foot-pounds of torque. As recommended, a solid bench vise can clamp the flats on the fixed cup and the frame used as a long lever to unthread it.

However, if the fixed cup's race isn't scored or pitted, you could clean it in place and rebuild and lube the bottom bracket with out removing it.

speedevil 

As far as removing the old grease, absolutely yes, clean it all out whether or not you choose to remove the DS cup. A lot of DS cups have never been removed once installed, and it's not required for servicing the BB bearings. If you can clean it well enough to inspect it without removing it, that's faster and easier. You know the history of the bike and how well it's been maintained better than we do.

If you want to remove it, try this:

I made a clamp with a threaded rod, two large fender washers, and two nuts. Put the adjustable wrench in the correct position on the flats, and clamp the wrench in place with the makeshift clamp. The DS cup is most likely a left hand thread, so clockwise rotation will remove it. The clamp is there to prevent the wrench from slipping off of the flats. Once it's moved, you'll need to slightly loosen one of the nuts so that you can continue to turn the cup out. When it moves easily, which should be in half a turn or so, you can remove the clamp and turn it the rest of the way.

Not a fancy method, but you may already have the threaded rrod, washers and nuts.

wrk101

I find it harder to clean, inspect, and seat the bearings in an old dirty BB fixed cup, unless it has been removed. So personally, I remove them.

On the other hand, if the spindle and adjustable cup are in good shape, its doubtful the fixed cup will have serious wear. So its up to you.

SquidPuppet

I belong to the "Pack it Full" camp.

speedevil 

I guess I'm in the "coat the spindle lightly, some on the cup threads, and the remainder of the grease goes in the bearings" camp. Don't see a reason for a BB full of grease. If it's good quality grease to begin with, it won't move around much anyway.

WGB 

Thank you all. I will make another attempt to remove the cup (reverse thread, reverse thread don't forget reverse thread!!)

Either way we have a cold snap here for another week so will finish the build before warmth hits. I think they are 1/4 inch bearings so will try to install using loose bearings first. If that is too hard will try to find a caged set.

Ghrumpy

Speaking as a mechanic, I have to pretty strongly disagree that a bench vise is "the best" tool for the job. The best tool for the job is the right tool for the job. For the "standard" two-flats fixed cup, there is no shortage of relatively inexpensive BB tools. Last I checked they were in the US$20 range, probably less. If you can afford a bench vise stout enough to remove fixed cups with, you can afford the right tool.

A bench vise is to me literally the "last resort" tool, as it is very hard to use it without damaging the cup, and often the frame's paint. I always groan when I see a fixed cup with the telltale teeth marks in it. To hold the cup tightly enough on that tiny edge requires a high clamping force, which will distort the cup into an elliptical shape, making it even less likely to want to unscrew. The only thing that overcomes that is the high leverage that the frame gives you.

Even if the correct tool does not succeed, there are several tools to resort to before the vise. Most shops should have one or another, or several. They include the Stein clamp that stabilizes the wrench is a particular favorite of mine. Some shops might even have the VAR fixed cup extractor. Both are vastly preferable to the bench vise. If you must use the vise, use a pinch-type extractor made my Kingsbridge among others. Clamp that in the vise and turn out the cup. Never fails.

Ghrumpy

Agreed. I prefer to remove, clean, and reinstall. With anti-seize on the threads.

WRT tightening torque, I have never actually seen a mechanic install a two-flats BB cup with a torque wrench. I don't even see how it could be done. The standard wrench should give you enough leverage to get it to the correct tightness. 24tpi is a very fine thread for that diameter, so it will get very tight without much pushing past snug.

But there's a range. For steel cup into steel frame, you'd have a hard time making it too tight (though it has been done.) But for steel cup into aluminum or aluminum cup into steel, you need to back that torque off a lot. Aluminum cup into aluminum frame, back it off more. No more is needed than a little bit past snug.

squirtdad

check out the sheldon brown bolt method for tough bb Tool Tips--Bottom Bracket Cups

I am in the plenty but not too much grease camp and I use Phil Wood grease.

fietsbob

un damaged races? I just put grease in the fixed cup, and that sticks the balls in place, drop the spindle in

and screw in the adjustable cup, I've stuck the bearing balls in grease in it in the same way..

HillRider

+1 Use a layer of grease in the races to "glue" the loose bearing balls in place as you assemble the bottom bracket.

rydabent

The camp Im in. Totally clean out all the grease from cups and bearings. For BB and headsets that take large forces, use extreme pressure short fiber fairly thick grease, and pack the bearings and cups full.

JohnDThompson 

The problem with the $20 tools is that they have a tendency to slip off the cup when you put a lot of torque on them. You can prevent this with washers, bolts, etc to hold the tool against the cup.

A tool like the Campagnolo 793/A not only holds the cup very securely, it also has flats that can be clamped into a bench vise if the tool/cheater pipe combination isn't enough.

Ghrumpy

Yes, or the excellent Stein tool I mentioned earlier.

Yeah, that's the tool!
The VAR BP-03000 looks like a similar concept but with adapters for different size cups. It doesn't have the flats for the vise but those are usually not needed anyway IME.