theblackbullet

What kind of scoring system are they using? Do you have any scientific articles to back this?
I use pedialyte, never have a problem and highly recommend it.

carleton

I agree.

Pedialyte is good and not as sweet as Gatorade. The only downside is that it's relatively expensive compared to Gatorade (also good).

The NFL is the highest revenue generating sport in the country (world?) and they use Pedialyte. I'm pretty sure they did the research.

Steelers' bye week recovery plan: Run wind sprints, drink Pedialyte - Pittsburgh Steelers Blog- ESPN


As well as MLB:

Pedialyte tastes bad but gets good results for athletes ? Orange County Register


Gatorade Orange is my go-to beverage. Cheap, easy to find, and when you mix it 50/50 with ice water, it goes down well, like Pedialyte.

The other flavors turn my stomach. I believe that G2 doesn't have the same sugars that we need for gluconeogenesis. It's sugar free, I think.

The best is the powdered orange Gatorade. That way you can control the mix and it's cheaper and portable. You can buy a small container (about the size of a grapefruit) and keep it in your gear bag or car.

carleton

Update:

Taras, yesterday I did a gym workout then went to watch evening races at DLV. It was kind of warm. Ate only a steak for dinner with no sides (and a handful of Swedish Fish later (we are being honest, right?)) and went to bed. No supplements all day. Legs were spent from lots of deadlifts. I felt like I could start cramping at any moment, but didn't. In the AM awoke and did a good morning yawn and stretch...and boom. Small cramp in the calf.

Divebrian

This is the latest one that I have seen. Go to Paleoedge.com You can either type in Best electrolyte drinks in the search bar or you can scroll down the site and find it near the bottom of the second page. There is also info on the best electrolyte drink for diabetics if that relates to you or anyone you know. The one I am referring to is "Best and Worst electrolyte drinks".

taras0000

The nutritional profile for Pedialyte compared to other drinks is actually quite poor. That's not to say it can't be effective for an athlete. Depending on diet, genetics, and other factors, different drinks will work for different folks.

Pedialyte is formulated specifically to help rehydrate after bouts of diarrhea. It lacks magnesium and calcium, which are important in muscular contraction/relaxation. It leaves out the magnesium because magnesium will relax muscles, and in the digestive tract, can act as a laxative. The calcium can also affect stomach acid pH and this can also lead to more/prolonged diarrhea. I also don't like it because two of the ingredients in its list will combine to make an ingredient that is already included in the list (Salt and Citric acid, Sodium Citrate).

As far as NFL and MLB endorsing it, they're money making machines. They will go with the highest bidder. Athletes are fickle. They'll use what they want to use, and slap a Pedialyte label on it.

Divebrian is right in that there are lots of better choices out there. Pedialyte can easily be replaced by some salt water and a banana.

carleton

Wow. I stand corrected. Sorry, Divebrian.

So, is Pedialyte sponsoring pro sports?

carleton

Reading up on Gatorade, sugar is its Achilles heel:

I think these amounts of sugar might be OK for athletes who'll use them immediately, but I've watched teens and young adults drink Gatorade thinking it was a healthy alternative to sodas and didn't realize that they were being hooked on the sugar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatorade

I believe that sucrose and dextrose aid in gluconeogenesis, but maybe they could cut back a bit instead of going with Stevia (in "G2") which I don't think helps gluconeogenesis at all.

With regular Gatorade being t $2/bottle and mixing it 50/50 with water making it $1/bottle, maybe it's the best thing going now?

Divebrian

I use the Heed electrolyte drink...I used to mix the powdered Gatorade. You can order it directly from Hammer Nutrition for 80 servings for $58.95 and 32 servings for $29.95, cheaper than the Gatorade per serving. I use one scoop per large water bottle. Instead of buying one 80 serving container, I buy two smaller ones so I can alternate flavors and it's still less than $1 per serving. Using the cost basis approach, the premium natural ingredients are a bonus.

taras0000

Carleton, try a dark leafy green salad with your carnivorous meals, with a vinaigrette dressing (it helps to absorb the minerals from the salad). Or a cal-mag supplement. Stay away from oxide versions of minerals as they are poorly absorbed. You'll absorb more Magnesium Citrate at 150mg dose than you would a 500mg dose of Magnesium Oxide. Mag Oxide basically ends up becoming a laxative because so much of it ends up passing into the intestinal tract, instead of being absorbed earlier.

bitingduck

Heed has hardly any sodium or potassium at all. I had one of my worst cramp experiences on organized rides where they were giving out Hammer products at the rest stops. The other was on a desert ride in July where I was using an energy drink with similar amounts of sodium and potassium as Heed (117 F on the thermometer in the popup at the start of my relay leg). You can supplement it with their other potions, but on long ride on a hot SoCal day, Heed by itself doesn't even come close to replacement.

Not all Gatorades are created equal - they've been changing the formula over the years so that the stuff in the 7-11 is mostly a soft drink, but even the 7-11 version has more electrolytes than Heed, and they also sell high electrolyte versions. We started getting the Gatorade Endurance powder and mixing it half strength if we don't want as much sugar, or full strength if we do. Even at half strength it's got 150 mg sodium and 70 mg of potassium per 12 oz. For no sugar electrolytes, I usually use Gatorlytes, which have a ton of Na and K, plus Ca and Mg. I sweat out a lot of salt, so I tend to mix them full strength, and my GF runs them half strength.

brawlo

I read some stuff either last year or early this year pointing to cramping in the basic sense being a result of muscle fatigue. From there it got very technical and hazy as any one or combination of a whole range of things could bring on that fatigue (and cramping). Things like mineral imbalances, dehydration and a whole lot of others. What I don't get is as Carleton described up there ^^, the cramps that hit you early in the morning when you are theoretically rested and recovered??? Sure there has to be a lot more to it....

taras0000

That's most likely because first thing in the morning, your body is parched. Think about not drinking anything for 6-8 hours. That's most likely the largest contributing factor, coupled with a mineral imbalance. Most cramping issues are due to a mineral/electrolyte imbalance.

The fatigue aspect is certainly something to consider. When there is underlying fatigue, your body's hormones are out of whack, and this includes your neurotransmitters. Your muscles will be sluggish to fire, so what ends up happening is fewer motor units fire to save the rest of the muscle from working too hard. This places more stress on that/those particular motor units, causing a more intense contraction. Lack of potassium will cause the muscle cells to stay contracted. If you get a knot like this, you can release it by starving it of blood. Just find the center of the knot and push on it as hard as you can and hold it. This stops the blood flow to it, starving it of oxygen and forcing it to release. It might tense back up again in a minute or so, just keep doing this and massaging it in between contractions.

I keep a lacrosse ball handy for situations like this. A PVC pipe (3" or 4") can also work, just like a foam roller, but will provide an unforgiving surface that better targets knots. Don't overdo it, a hard roller can cause bruising.

topflightpro

I like Gatorade G2 when I'm going out to the track. There is so much sugar in it that it helps stave off dry mouth.

For workouts, I use Infinit Nutrition. They do custom mixes, so you can determine how much protein or calories you want in your drink. I usually wait til the annual buy one, get one free sale. That's generally enough to last me a year. That said, I tend to mix it at 50% strength. All sports drinks at full strength mess up my stomach.

If you want to try infinite, you can use the code trianglevelo to get 10% off. They have a 40% off sale coming up soon too. I got an email about it, but I don't remember the details. I think you can combine the discount with the 40 percent.

Tony P.

I don't think enough has been said about starting hydration early. It takes a while for the body to process liquids and you have to stay ahead of dehydration. Taking in the basic 5-10 ounce every 15-20 minutes is fine as a general rule but you have to start hydrating early to avoid falling behind. I usually drink about an hour before I ride and take some OJ as the last thing I do before I start.

My go to drink while riding is a 1:1 combination of OJ and lemonade with some salt thrown in. I tried including honey but found it difficult to dissolve.

carleton

It's Protein.


@brawlo and @taras0000 were right.

The night I had my big cramps, I did a sweaty workout then at only chicken afterwards. Years ago, I was on a Keto diet when it happened.

Last week I had a few small cramps when I ate only protein after working out.

Today was a track day (standing starts). Ate 2 eggs for breakfast (with salt). 102F/39C in the infield. Drank 1 pint of Gatorade and 1.5 pints of water during the session. Felt fine. Came home, showered, relaxed. Snacked on a bunch of leftover breakfast sausage that I didn't eat this morning. 30 minutes later, my right hamstring is like, "Yo...you know we are about to do this thing, right?" as it pulsates with "pre-cramps". I hustle gingerly to the kitchen and take potassium pills, magnesium pills, and eat some salt...then I plugged in the heating pad and I'm sitting here waiting to see what's up

carleton

....annnnd yup. The cramps hit hard as F.

The heat pads are the best thing I've found for relief.

topflightpro

If anyone wants a code for 40% off a custom Infinit mix, PM me.

seau grateau

I've been hearing lately about cramping being approached as a neuromuscular issue, rather than something to do with hydration or electrolytes. Kinda makes sense on the surface, as dehydration affects the whole body and cramps do not. Here's a short article that touches on it: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/t...muscle-cramps/

VeloNews is supposed to have a podcast on the subject out soon I think.

carleton

Thanks! I hope they make progress in this area.

I don't necessarily agree with this concluding statement, though:

Also, this makes leads me to believe that this approach focuses on mitigating the effects of cramps (duration, intensity, starting at all) but not addressing the cause of the cramps:

This is like headaches being a sign of dehydration and taking Tylenol to get rid of the headache. Maybe cramps are a warning of some impending danger. For example, a severe electrolyte imbalance can literally kill us.

seau grateau

Yeah, that article's pretty light, and two years old. I'm sure there's better literature on the subject now, but I haven't really looked into it because I haven't had many problems with cramping. *knock on wood*

carleton

I hope so, too.

I found a similar thread on a tri forum: Adductor cramping: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

seau grateau

That podcast on cramping is live now: Fast Talk podcast, ep. 26: Cramping myths debunked | VeloNews.com

Haven't finished listening to it yet, but it's pretty interesting so far.

carleton

THANKS!!

I just started listening to it. I'll try to finish it all today between meetings.

Franklin27

Ohh, boy...

I know it's cruel to say it but your cramps chronicles series have left Hitchcock way behind. Someones knows it will inevitably happen, just don't how or when. Nuts.

carleton

Yeah, it's crazy.

I listened to the entire 1 hr podcast. It's waaaay too long to find out that the cause is simply fatigue. Fatigue due to the event being over and above what the rider is conditioned to. Even pros get them in early-season races. The scientist called it "Abnormal Neuromuscular Control".

The mechanism of the cramps was explained by the scientist. That was very insightful. Basically, fatigue causes the muscles to contract more and fatigue causes the release action to fail sometimes, so you are left with an all contraction and no release situation. Something related to the Golgi tendon.


It was scientifically proven that electrolyte levels were not a significant factor. They are only a factor in that without them, fatigue sets in faster. Save your money.

Heat is only a factor because fatigue sets in earlier when working out in hot environments.

The scientists actually mentioned "Pre-Cramps" (by name) as an early warning sign. When that happens, stretch. (I'm pretty much a scientist now )

Stretching for about 10-15s is the most effective treatment because it activates the Golgi tendon.

Underhydration is better than overhydration if one is prone to cramping.

My 2 cents: The catch 22 is, in order to get conditioning, you have to overextend...which will make for cramps. But, I guess that there is a sweet spot. But, for my sprint training, almost everything is maximal and designed to exhaust the muscles. If time allows, I literally do sets until fatigue sets in.

So, relative lack of conditioning compared to the workout at hand and working out to exhaustion is what causes the cramps.