Braden1550

Who says it's dialled in perfectly?

Rarely, although it has happened, we find that something will shift properly in a stand but not at all on the road.

This is because it has no load on it (duh)

I think whoever is setting up your bike hasn't the foggiest.
YES flex and front shifting is something that Sram road products, particularly Red suffers from. Everybody knows that. Sram knows that.

Each manufacturer has their own specific little bug-bears. Excluding the aforementioned, Sram is especially sensitive to correct manufacturer specifications. And there is accelerated wear in the cables at the shifter due to the angles the cable has to make. Something to be vigilant of.

Get a real mechanic.

Val23708

I don't trust you:

If you're going to test it indoors, do it on a trainer. You need load and gravity pulling the proper direction to get an accurate adjustment. Also turn the crank while shifting.

Second best option is stick it on a work stand. Results may be different under load though.

DrPete 

This would seem to be the issue. SRAM's front derailleurs are absolutely not problematically flexy or anything like that (at least not in my experience, having raced at 200-plus pounds on Force and Rival)--I'd be MUCH more apt to suspect an issue with cable routing through the frame, lack of tension, or improper cable routing at the actual derailleur.

Nerull

If you think you can dial it in correctly with the bike flipped than no, it isn't dialed in.

zigmeister

What kind of frame is it TS?

I don't see how real world loads would play much of a part on a higher end carbon bike. Never had an issue with my derailleur adjustments not translating to the exact same shifting on the road while riding.

But I'm not riding some flexy aluminum frame either.

Something is up it seems. This thing about switching to a steel cage is overplayed IMO. But, since the pros all have it on their setups, it must be gospel and necessary.

If you try to flex/bend the inner portion of the titanium part of the cage which pushes/deflects the chain up to the big ring with your fingers, where the most force would be needed during any FD operation, it is hard to get it to flex the way it is bent/creased and designed. The outer portion does, but big deal. It just has to slap the chain and knock it down with gravity to the lower ring. Minor flex isn't going to not make it work 100% of the time. The flex issue would only apply to small to big.

But hey, if I can get SRAM to send me a steel cage for free to put on my Red FD...I guess it doesn't hurt to have a spare.

I would look at the angle of the derailleur, ensure the chain is new/newer with not much wear, cables are all tight and working properly, shifters are also working fine, as well as the basic FD height above the big chainring, stops etc...

W F Collins

UPDATE FROM THE OP:

My LBS offered to switch out the Force FD for an Ultegra just to see what happens...and the shift is buttery, perfectly, awesomely smooth. The shifter pull is smoother (no more Hulk smash on the upshift "just to make sure"), it moves up the crank and onto the teeth very quick, basically it's just the way it should be. Good thing FD ratio's are 1:1 for Sham and Sram.

So, chalk that one up to SRAM's crappy braze-on FD design. Same cable, same height, same crank, better FD = fix.

DrPete 

Seem to be plenty of folks out there managing just fine with SRAM's "crappy design." For whatever reason it didn't work on your bike, but that hardly makes it a bad design. Went out for a ride with my crappy SRAM and it still shifts better than any Shimano group I've owned.

M_FactorX19

my rival FD shifts great!! i worked on many bikes with sram when i was a bike mechanic and will say they are a little pickier about their setup but once there they shift great! you have only had it a month so give it some time for you to work it out. make sure the cage is aligned perfectly with the chain rings and that there is about 1-2mm gap between the bottom of the cage and the large chainring. also play with cable tension and your limits(very very small turn of the screw can make the difference).

W F Collins

"you have only had it a month so give it some time for you to work it out"

A front derailleur is an inanimate object, not a college freshman. It doesn't have some kind of learning curve to go through before it "figures out" my bike. It's a mechanical device that wasn't working. Having gone through two Sram FD's (Red Ti and Force Stainless) and a month of sloppy shifting, exchanging out a Shimano piece and immediately seeing and feeling a substantial difference confirms 1 of 3 possibilities: 1) either there is a design flaw with the SRAM FD, which SRAM themselves confirmed (at least with the Red cage) as well as a few others on here or 2) i coincidentally received two blem FD's from SRAM. 3) Tarmac SL3's w/ Braze on mounts are somewhat incompatible with SRAM FD's.

2 and 3 seem less likely to me.

It's pretty disappointing too, the rear shifting/cassette on my Red is flawless. Looks like their FD just needs some tweaking.

Val23708

4 - you suck at installing SRAM FDs.

Jeepnut22 

I thought about typing my experiences with both manufacturers, but all I could really come up with is...

DrPete 

At least we know that the 7 Tour de France teams who ran SRAM weren't able to test the front derailleurs adequately.

M_FactorX19

i didnt mean the FD needed to age like a fine wine. i meant give it time for the cables to stretch and for you to make to proper adjustments needed to make it work. if you want to throw parts and money at your bike to make it work right be my guest. in all honesty though you just did not have it set up correctly its as simple as that. no i dont trust someone that says their FD is dialed in correctly when they work on their bike upside down but what do i know i only made a living working on bikes for years.

W F Collins

The issue wasn't the setup, I've had 5 sets of eyes on both of the SRAM FD's (2 Sram guys, two Sham guys, and a Specialized Outside sales rep) and we all saw the inconsistent shifting on the stand and under load; as well as the instant fix w/ the 6700 ultegra.

I'm not interested in brand war here. Personally, I really wanted the Black Sram to work. My Tarmac is charcoal, and the black group is murderous looking on it. But looks don't outweigh inconsistent shifting, and that's what I got from both the Red and Force cages. I'm curious about spring tension rates now. After playing around w/ my Ultegra FD, I've noticed it moves easier up. Does Shimano run a lesser spring rate?

Val23708

yes. does that mean you have weak fingers?

BmoreDrew

Fair nuff, I've had a few different shop mechanics play with it and I've dialed it in myself though. I'll mess with it some more but it's been like this since day 1.

Nerull - That's not what I said.. I had the shop mechanic adjust it. I was giving an example of no load vs load. Thanks?

Nachoman

murderous in a good way, right?

zigmeister

I vote number 3.

I will take the fact that all the pros that run SRAM Red FDs on their setups and rely on these to make a living and compete at the highest level of competitive cycling in the World that the SRAM Red FD is fine.

Also TS, you have never said, at least not that I could find, what are all the other components/brands you are running. Sounds like some mish-mash of stuff.


Good luck.