Cycling Posture - Upright is Right!
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The right style may vary from person to person. I recently switched from a road bike to an upright, and for me it was the correct decision. For me it is more comfortable and I enjoy riding more. I'm a slow rider anyway so the speed isn't much of a factor. Don't know about long rides yet, the longest I've done on my upright is a couple of 60 milers.
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I don't understand why everything is saying an upright will crush your junk and your spine will take too much shock. I've done like 60km straight with an upright and neither my spine or my wrists where hurting by the end it felt great. You don't use a road bike seat for an upright bike guys, there's different tools for different styles or riding. With a road bike you don't have much weight on the seat when you go over bumps and stuff because your arms and legs will absorb it easily. But with my upright I chose a seat with springs and a cutout in the middle so ergonomically all the weight is only on your sit bones and zero pressure in your "junk" area.
Everyone should choose the correct tools to the bike they are using, my bike originally had a seat without spring or a cutout. Lets just say in 2 days I had to go to the bike store to get a new seat cause it was splitting me apart over every bump I went over! But the same crappy seat worked great on my mtn bike though because of my seating position there and replaced the older seat on that said bike .
Everyone should choose the correct tools to the bike they are using, my bike originally had a seat without spring or a cutout. Lets just say in 2 days I had to go to the bike store to get a new seat cause it was splitting me apart over every bump I went over! But the same crappy seat worked great on my mtn bike though because of my seating position there and replaced the older seat on that said bike .
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Upright is much more comfortable (if the bike is designed for it!) but IME is slower.
The prime example of this presently (in the USA) is the RANS crank-forward bikes, such as the Fusion:
https://www.ransbikes.com/Fusion10.htm
I have had one a few years now.
It's much more comfortable than any regular bike, but it also feels quite a bit slower too (feels like more aero drag). For a lot of casual riders, that doesn't matter much though. The custom seat doesn't require padded shorts, and there's much less hand pressure and neck strain. If you want better comfort but don't want a recumbent, test-ride one of the RANS bikes.
I would also opine that any "upright" bike that still uses a regular bicycle saddle is a waste of your time. The regular bicycle-style saddle is the source of most people's pain complaints. Until you get rid of that, you're still going to have the same butt-pain problems.
~
The prime example of this presently (in the USA) is the RANS crank-forward bikes, such as the Fusion:
https://www.ransbikes.com/Fusion10.htm
I have had one a few years now.
It's much more comfortable than any regular bike, but it also feels quite a bit slower too (feels like more aero drag). For a lot of casual riders, that doesn't matter much though. The custom seat doesn't require padded shorts, and there's much less hand pressure and neck strain. If you want better comfort but don't want a recumbent, test-ride one of the RANS bikes.
I would also opine that any "upright" bike that still uses a regular bicycle saddle is a waste of your time. The regular bicycle-style saddle is the source of most people's pain complaints. Until you get rid of that, you're still going to have the same butt-pain problems.
~
#30
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Upright is much more comfortable (if the bike is designed for it!) but IME is slower.
The prime example of this presently (in the USA) is the RANS crank-forward bikes, such as the Fusion:
https://www.ransbikes.com/Fusion10.htm
I have had one a few years now.
It's much more comfortable than any regular bike, but it also feels quite a bit slower too (feels like more aero drag). For a lot of casual riders, that doesn't matter much though. The custom seat doesn't require padded shorts, and there's much less hand pressure and neck strain. If you want better comfort but don't want a recumbent, test-ride one of the RANS bikes.
I would also opine that any "upright" bike that still uses a regular bicycle saddle is a waste of your time. The regular bicycle-style saddle is the source of most people's pain complaints. Until you get rid of that, you're still going to have the same butt-pain problems.
~
The prime example of this presently (in the USA) is the RANS crank-forward bikes, such as the Fusion:
https://www.ransbikes.com/Fusion10.htm
I have had one a few years now.
It's much more comfortable than any regular bike, but it also feels quite a bit slower too (feels like more aero drag). For a lot of casual riders, that doesn't matter much though. The custom seat doesn't require padded shorts, and there's much less hand pressure and neck strain. If you want better comfort but don't want a recumbent, test-ride one of the RANS bikes.
I would also opine that any "upright" bike that still uses a regular bicycle saddle is a waste of your time. The regular bicycle-style saddle is the source of most people's pain complaints. Until you get rid of that, you're still going to have the same butt-pain problems.
~
#31
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I was contemplating that very thing this past weekend when I was remarking to myself how natural I felt on my bike. My bars are easilty 4" below my saddle. When I raced 7-9" was pretty typical for me. I'm pretty tall - 6'2 - and am "long and lean" gymnasitic body type, so perhaps that has something to do with it.
I'd like to try a bike with the "French fit" (fist ful of seatpost) such as a Rivendell, properly measured and set up for me, just to check it out. Even so, such bikes still promote a forward-leaning bias, just not as extreme as the big drop setup.
After commuting for about 2 months on my Bianchi Milano (with it's swept back handlebars) on a 24-25 mile roundtrip commute with 3-4 miles of steady grades on the trip home, I swapped in a flat bar and dropped the stem - it was MUCH better for me. I couldn't stand the upright position for that particular commute.
My current transportation/commuter is a drop bar cyclo-cross-ish bike with about 4" of drop and I love it.
For a casual ride to the coffee house, well, maybe I'd consider the upright thing, but I'd probably walk if it was that close.
Last edited by canyoneagle; 09-30-10 at 03:25 PM.
#32
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I don't find upright comfortable at all, no thanks on that.
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The thrust one can apply from the legs to the pedals in an 'upright' position is very limited.
Getting out of the saddle in order to apply more force to the pedals from an 'upright' position is even more awkward.
Just 2 of the reasons why I prefer having a good drop from the seat to the handle bar.
Getting out of the saddle in order to apply more force to the pedals from an 'upright' position is even more awkward.
Just 2 of the reasons why I prefer having a good drop from the seat to the handle bar.
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#34
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Another lively discussion about cycling posture here:
https://www.ecovelo.info/2010/09/13/w...n-on-position/
Alexander Technique to cycling
https://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...itness.cycling
https://www.ecovelo.info/2010/09/13/w...n-on-position/
Alexander Technique to cycling
https://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...itness.cycling
#35
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Alexander Technique to cycling
https://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...itness.cycling
https://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...itness.cycling
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If the point is to get people to buy bikes, then yeah, maybe they're more likely to buy something that looks like a comfy chair. But if the point is the practical use of the bike, then there are valid reasons, for comfort as well as speed, for the leaning-forward position.
First, distributing weight between the arms, legs, and seat protects the seat from pressure fatigue on rides of longer than a couple miles. Second, if all the weight is on the seat and the spinal column is aligned directly above it, then pavement shocks are transmitted directly up the spine. If you can anticipate the bumps, you can lean forward and put more weight on the feet, but it's a lot easier if you're already in this position.
First, distributing weight between the arms, legs, and seat protects the seat from pressure fatigue on rides of longer than a couple miles. Second, if all the weight is on the seat and the spinal column is aligned directly above it, then pavement shocks are transmitted directly up the spine. If you can anticipate the bumps, you can lean forward and put more weight on the feet, but it's a lot easier if you're already in this position.
#37
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I broke a spoke on the Sojourn, so last night, I took the ol' Worksman out for 20+ miles. Coming back, I was riding into the wind. I kept wanting to get in the drops and there weren't any.
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I would also point out however that using the Dutch cycling model for what is best, simply doesn't work everywhere else.
The use of bicycles in places like Amsterdam is very high, but then again, the average trip length is VERY short (something like 90% is under 2.5 miles one-way) and bicycle use in the rural areas there is much, much less.
Amsterdam riders do sit upright with all their weight on their saddles, but they usually simply aren't going very far. For bicycling use to expand to similar figures beyond the dense urbanized areas, riding efficiency would become a much bigger factor.
~
The use of bicycles in places like Amsterdam is very high, but then again, the average trip length is VERY short (something like 90% is under 2.5 miles one-way) and bicycle use in the rural areas there is much, much less.
Amsterdam riders do sit upright with all their weight on their saddles, but they usually simply aren't going very far. For bicycling use to expand to similar figures beyond the dense urbanized areas, riding efficiency would become a much bigger factor.
~
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#40
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The funny thing is that this whole discussion does not apply to most of the planet.
Bicycles are the most prevalent form of transportation. Today, there are two bikes for every car. The overwhelming majority of those bikes are utilitarian and upright for a good reason.
On a daily basis I see ladies on high heels, long skirts, and a hand bag get on their bikes and pedal away to take care of business. I also see grannies get on theirs to go grocery shopping. I would love to see you guys explaining to them how a crouched stance is better
On a healthy society, utilitarian upright bikes have a more important role than any other bike type.
Not that I would be caught dead riding one of those
Bicycles are the most prevalent form of transportation. Today, there are two bikes for every car. The overwhelming majority of those bikes are utilitarian and upright for a good reason.
On a daily basis I see ladies on high heels, long skirts, and a hand bag get on their bikes and pedal away to take care of business. I also see grannies get on theirs to go grocery shopping. I would love to see you guys explaining to them how a crouched stance is better
On a healthy society, utilitarian upright bikes have a more important role than any other bike type.
Not that I would be caught dead riding one of those
My "upright" roadster-type bike (which is what most of the world uses) doesn't actually give me an "upright" position- I still have some lean even in the most upright position, and when I move my hands toward the inside curve of the bars (north road/mustache style that is standard on utilitarian cycles) I stretch out considerably.
Cricisms of uprights are very true when they're referring to bolt-upright seating positions, either on crappy comfort bikes or poorly informed people raising their bars and lowering their saddles to where the bike feels like an easy chair. But in terms of standard utility cycles, which do have some natural lean in all hand positions and allow considerable lean if set up correctly, it's very much opinion, and depends on the individual rider. I personally can't use either drops or flats, so a multi-position bar with a slight to medium drop is my only option.
Last edited by silverwolf; 10-02-10 at 05:34 PM.
#41
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Drops are perfectly comfortable if you have moderate flexibility and your lower back muscles are stronger than cookie dough.
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I ride both upright on a cruiser and down on drops. They're for different things. I like upright in traffic, because I wasn't going to go that fast anyway and I prefer how easy it is to see and balance. I like down for long distances, for the obvious reasons.
It's almost as though bikes are awesome and we can change how we interact with them to achieve our own personal goals.
It's almost as though bikes are awesome and we can change how we interact with them to achieve our own personal goals.
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#44
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Raise Dat Stem!
by Bob Gordon
A flat back is one of the hallmarks of an experienced cyclist, particularly a racer, and over the years I have seen the prevailing attitudes towards rider positioning devolve to the point where if you don't cycle with your back parallel to the ground, you're cast off as a beginner.
But like many other concepts recreational riders adopt, the low back originated in the professional ranks after extensive research in aerodynamics proved this would help the fast go faster. Competitive athletes routinely sacrifice both their short and long term health for the express purpose of winning, but you may have a different agenda.
Lower back disc problems peak the ages of 30 and 50. There are many causes, but if your back pain is exacerbated by riding, it's a good bet the cause is bouncing around on your bike while your lower spine is extensively flexed (loss of lower back arch). A low, forward torso causes the inner portion of the disc (the nucleus purposes) to press back against the outer restraining fibers (the annulus fibroses). This pressure eventually causes the disc to bulge or herniate. The nearby nerves get squeezed, and the next thing you know, someone like me is telling you you have sciatica.
Cycling mitigates some of the problems of a habitually flexed lumbar spine because of the "bridge effect" that's created by resting some of your weight on your hands. But the lumbar region and its soft tissues are still at risk just by being continuously hyper flexed, and if you sit all day at your job, the danger is compounded.
On the flip side, cycling entirely upright does not solve the problem either. True, the inter-vertebral discs and spinal ligaments are in a more neutral position and absorb shock better, but the load is now transmitted axially, which is fatiguing and jarring. Also, in a bolt-upright position you can't use your gluteus or hamstrings to great advantage, which means your thighs (quadriceps) get overworked, you lose a lot of power, the unused hamstrings and gluteal muscles go flabby, and you catch all that wind. It's hard to be happy about all that, racer or no.
There is, however, a position that allows good performance while minimizing risk of lower back injury. I like a stem height and length that puts your back about 50 degrees from horizontal, while your arms and legs bend slightly at the elbows, as shown in figure 2 up there. To achieve this, you'll probably have to raise your bars, and assuming you want to keep the same bar style (as opposed to riding with stingray bars or something), that usually means getting another stem, one with a taller quill or a steep rise to it. If you hit the sweet spot, a photo of you from the side will reveal a nice pyramid composed of top tube, torso and arms.'
by Bob Gordon
A flat back is one of the hallmarks of an experienced cyclist, particularly a racer, and over the years I have seen the prevailing attitudes towards rider positioning devolve to the point where if you don't cycle with your back parallel to the ground, you're cast off as a beginner.
But like many other concepts recreational riders adopt, the low back originated in the professional ranks after extensive research in aerodynamics proved this would help the fast go faster. Competitive athletes routinely sacrifice both their short and long term health for the express purpose of winning, but you may have a different agenda.
Lower back disc problems peak the ages of 30 and 50. There are many causes, but if your back pain is exacerbated by riding, it's a good bet the cause is bouncing around on your bike while your lower spine is extensively flexed (loss of lower back arch). A low, forward torso causes the inner portion of the disc (the nucleus purposes) to press back against the outer restraining fibers (the annulus fibroses). This pressure eventually causes the disc to bulge or herniate. The nearby nerves get squeezed, and the next thing you know, someone like me is telling you you have sciatica.
Cycling mitigates some of the problems of a habitually flexed lumbar spine because of the "bridge effect" that's created by resting some of your weight on your hands. But the lumbar region and its soft tissues are still at risk just by being continuously hyper flexed, and if you sit all day at your job, the danger is compounded.
On the flip side, cycling entirely upright does not solve the problem either. True, the inter-vertebral discs and spinal ligaments are in a more neutral position and absorb shock better, but the load is now transmitted axially, which is fatiguing and jarring. Also, in a bolt-upright position you can't use your gluteus or hamstrings to great advantage, which means your thighs (quadriceps) get overworked, you lose a lot of power, the unused hamstrings and gluteal muscles go flabby, and you catch all that wind. It's hard to be happy about all that, racer or no.
There is, however, a position that allows good performance while minimizing risk of lower back injury. I like a stem height and length that puts your back about 50 degrees from horizontal, while your arms and legs bend slightly at the elbows, as shown in figure 2 up there. To achieve this, you'll probably have to raise your bars, and assuming you want to keep the same bar style (as opposed to riding with stingray bars or something), that usually means getting another stem, one with a taller quill or a steep rise to it. If you hit the sweet spot, a photo of you from the side will reveal a nice pyramid composed of top tube, torso and arms.'
#45
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Sorry, but there are plenty of postures between "bombing down a fast descent" and "I wish this were an easy chair." People should have options, but it's entirely possible for many people to ride a relatively relaxed road position and get around efficiently and safely.
Knowing what I do about biomechanics, I would rather have a slight arch through my thoracic spine (it is very rare to injure a disc in this region) than have the jarring on my lumbar spine from sitting straight up. In reality, I actually generally ride with a flat back and my hips rotated forward. I can tolerate a fair amount of pressure on my hands, so my erectors to not see an undue workload.
The average person should not experience excessive rounding in the low back, as they should not need such an aggressive position. If they put it there because pros do, that's their choice. The problem is with a "one-sizefits all approach."
Knowing what I do about biomechanics, I would rather have a slight arch through my thoracic spine (it is very rare to injure a disc in this region) than have the jarring on my lumbar spine from sitting straight up. In reality, I actually generally ride with a flat back and my hips rotated forward. I can tolerate a fair amount of pressure on my hands, so my erectors to not see an undue workload.
The average person should not experience excessive rounding in the low back, as they should not need such an aggressive position. If they put it there because pros do, that's their choice. The problem is with a "one-sizefits all approach."
Last edited by tadawdy; 11-23-11 at 01:14 PM.
#46
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I do no tlike their version of upright at all. To me it seems a very unstable postion. That might be fine for trips on nice near perfect sidewalks lasting a couple of miles, but first pothole or surprise and you are going dowwn.
I've never ridden a bent, but I'd find that far preferable.
Also with a more traditional posture, either street or mountian bike yuo have options. The very straight bike seems to me to provide no way to change position. Again fine for rides short enough to walk, and fine if a bike is nothing more than a faster way to walk.
But for me position options is important. I'de be uncomfortable trying to watch a half of football in a comfy chair if I was not allowed to alter my position.
I've never ridden a bent, but I'd find that far preferable.
Also with a more traditional posture, either street or mountian bike yuo have options. The very straight bike seems to me to provide no way to change position. Again fine for rides short enough to walk, and fine if a bike is nothing more than a faster way to walk.
But for me position options is important. I'de be uncomfortable trying to watch a half of football in a comfy chair if I was not allowed to alter my position.
#47
Banned
still think these are cool bikes , if there is not a Gale to ride into.
https://www.dursley-pedersen.net/index.html
too bad about the business getting ugly and taking down the Copenhagen builder
https://www.pedersenbicycle.dk/
resolved the comfort issue 100 years ago..
https://www.dursley-pedersen.net/index.html
too bad about the business getting ugly and taking down the Copenhagen builder
https://www.pedersenbicycle.dk/
resolved the comfort issue 100 years ago..