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Cyclist Rear Ended at 55mph

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Cyclist Rear Ended at 55mph

Old 09-06-19, 06:51 AM
  #26  
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A similar incident comes to mind. This man was riding top the right off the fog line on a 4 lane divided highway. He didn't survive.
Cancer survivor training for pelotonia struck and killed while riding bike

What do we learn from these incidents? Is riding a bicycle inherently unsafe on roads where closing speed exceeds 25 mph?

MUPs and bike lanes make me feel comfortable, safe, and like a second class user. Infrastructure is designed for motor vehicles, not bikes.

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Old 09-06-19, 07:03 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
So as a bailout training video, I have to consider how I would react to a quickly upcomimg car, and make the decision to bail, especially with an inhospitable shoulder.
Nah, just ride on the shoulder instead of out in traffic.

Of course it helps to monitor cars approaching from behind on roads like this, no matter where you ride. But as a motorist, I would definitely not be expecting someone to be to the left of the rumble strip on a road with this wide of a shoulder. What was the bike rider thinking?

This video probably sold thousands of cameras and radar units, but some common sense I think would provide much greater dividends.
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Old 09-06-19, 07:41 AM
  #28  
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Victim Blaming

Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Nah, just ride on the shoulder instead of out in traffic.

Of course it helps to monitor cars approaching from behind on roads like this, no matter where you ride. But as a motorist, I would definitely not be expecting someone to be to the left of the rumble strip on a road with this wide of a shoulder. What was the bike rider thinking?

This video probably sold thousands of cameras and radar units, but some common sense I think would provide much greater dividends.
I've seen this multiple times in the thread and it's inappropriate. This accident was avoidable. The overtaking driver's responsibility was to not hit anything in front of them. End of Story. The rider chose his line for his own reasons, flats, upcoming turns, whatever. The rider has a right to use the road and not get killed or maimed as a result.
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Old 09-06-19, 07:50 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
So as a bailout training video, I have to consider how I would react to a quickly upcoming car, and make the decision to bail, especially with an inhospitable shoulder.
Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Nah, just ride on the shoulder instead of out in traffic.

Of course it helps to monitor cars approaching from behind on roads like this, no matter where you ride. But as a motorist, I would definitely not be expecting someone to be to the left of the rumble strip on a road with this wide of a shoulder. What was the bike rider thinking?

This video probably sold thousands of cameras and radar units, but some common sense I think would provide much greater dividends.
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
I'd be riding on the shoulder instead of the fog line.
Originally Posted by JW Fas View Post
It's not the clearest picture with the 720p video, but you can make out the rumble strips. The rest of the asphalt doesn't look the smoothest or cleanest either, so I can see why the cyclist chose the traffic lane.
Not to take sides, but the subject of position on the road is hotly debated.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
In the “cycling community” there are two schools of thought about riding in traffic:As Far Right as Possible: close to the curb; or Take the Lane to be out there and visible to cars. Bike lanes encourage the former behavior, likely more tolerated by motorists.

Bike lanes are not that wide, but then cyclist is in the “door zone” in danger of opening doors from parked cars.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 09-06-19 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 09-06-19, 08:01 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
The overtaking driver's responsibility was to not hit anything in front of them. End of Story. The rider chose his line for his own reasons, flats, upcoming turns, whatever. The rider has a right to use the road and not get killed or maimed as a result.
I do agree with this in principle; however the prudent rider should recognise the shortcomings of other road users as well as the probability that certain conditions may enhance these shortcomings.
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Old 09-06-19, 08:08 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Dr.Lou View Post
Proficiency usually has little or nothing to do with it. Being tired, speed, distracted, under the influence or all the above are usually the primary factors in traffic accidents.
More proficient motorists don't drive when they're tired, don't speed or go too fast for the conditions, don't distract themselves, and don't use drugs or alcohol prior.

Use airplane pilots as as comparison. When you go to flight school you're taught to maintain a constant scan of your instrumentation and your surroundings. You are also taught this in driver's ed, but clearly one is enforced better than the other. A pilot has to continuously prove they are capable of safely operating an aircraft by passing biennial flight reviews, which consist of a ground course followed by in-air evaluation (typically 1.5-2 hours total). With airplanes you have so much physical space around you that you have more time to recover from an error. In a car you don't have that luxury, yet somehow we think it's appropriate to hand teenagers licenses and never expect them to demonstrate safe operation for as long as they live.

Last edited by JW Fas; 09-06-19 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 09-06-19, 08:36 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by JW Fas View Post
It's not the clearest picture with the 720p video, but you can make out the rumble strips. The rest of the asphalt doesn't look the smoothest or cleanest either, so I can see why the cyclist chose the traffic lane.
I had no trouble seeing the rumble strips. The rest of the asphalt, on the shoulder. Made it impossible to ride on the shoulder.

Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
It's good that he survived this. It looks like it may not have been a direct hit, but instead a grazing hit on his left side. A few inches more and it would have probably been fatal.
Agreed, It wasn't a direct hit. But, While not intentional, it definitely wasn't a grazing. Because, The SUV's front bumper. Made direct contact with the back wheel. The SUV started to drift to the right. But the driver not stopping, after the collision. Is heinous by itself.

Originally Posted by SactoDoug View Post
He has my empathy. I was rear ended by a minivan doing 40 mph a few years ago but had different injuries due to being on a recumbent bike. It was still a very unpleasant experience.

I wish him a successful recovery.
I am glad you survived. I wish him a speedy recovery.

In just a few weeks, I am moving from an urban setting, to a semi-rural setting. Where the main traffic artery is just like this:

1. 55mph

2. No traffic lights or stop signs

3. Poor conditions on the shoulder


Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
I am not sure the word "rear ended" is appropriate here. Hit. Run down. Bludgeoned. Those all come to mind.

Driver will barely get a pee pee smack unless they were drunk.
Hit-n-Run, is certainly applicable here.

Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
Terrifying!
To say the least.

Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I agree...

One of the problems with the rumble strips is that if one is to the left of the rumble strips, one can't easily move right when traffic comes up behind.

The other thing is that the cyclist must also be aware of the sun in the eyes problem.

If the cyclist can't see, then the drivers behind him also can't see (so, proceed with that in mind).

That is a high speed, 4 lane hwy... One of the types of roads that I try to avoid. But, if I have to ride one, then I try to get as far away from the cars as is practical.

I do ride skinny tires, but that might be an argument to go fatter if it is part of a regular route (and the shoulder is rough, hard to tell from the video).

During low traffic times, I'll often ride close to the white line, or sometimes in the lane, but move over when cars approach (which the rumble strip precludes).

I've ridden rumbles... downhill, they can be really bad.
I unfortunately am moving to an area. Where the 'main artery', is a road just like this. I would have to stay on it for 1.4mi., before I could get off of it. So I am still wondering what I will do.

When I originally got my road bike in 2003. It came with 700x23. I eventually went to 700x25. I don't think that will be much help with rumble strips. Even if I have the tire pressure. At the top of the PSI rating.
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Old 09-06-19, 08:47 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
I've seen this multiple times in the thread and it's inappropriate. This accident was avoidable. The overtaking driver's responsibility was to not hit anything in front of them. End of Story. The rider chose his line for his own reasons, flats, upcoming turns, whatever. The rider has a right to use the road and not get killed or maimed as a result.
Sure, just like you have a 'right' to ride in the door lane and expect everyone to check before opening their doors.

I consider riding to the left of the rumble strips and riding in the door line to be highly risky behaviour and try to minimize it. I commute every day on a 4 lane highway with a wide shoulder but no rumble strips. Despite the wide shoulder I generally ride within 3' of the fog line (usually 1-2' to the right) to avoid debris in the shoulder. I occasionally have to ride on, or to the left, of the fog line to avoid an obstacle but when I do I'm checking over my shoulder to ensure no cars are coming. I take a fair number of risks on the bike bombing down high speed mountain descents but I wouldn't be riding to the left of those rumble strips and consider that to be an unnecessary risk. Perfectly legal and within the rider's rights but playing with fire.

If my kid showed me a video of him riding like that I'd slap him upside the head (figuratively speaking).
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Old 09-06-19, 09:04 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
I had no trouble seeing the rumble strips. The rest of the asphalt, on the shoulder. Made it impossible to ride on the shoulder.


Agreed, It wasn't a direct hit. But, While not intentional, it definitely wasn't a grazing. Because, The SUV's front bumper. Made direct contact with the back wheel. The SUV started to drift to the right. But the driver not stopping, after the collision. Is heinous by itself.



I am glad you survived. I wish him a speedy recovery.

In just a few weeks, I am moving from an urban setting, to a semi-rural setting. Where the main traffic artery is just like this:

1. 55mph

2. No traffic lights or stop signs

3. Poor conditions on the shoulder




Hit-n-Run, is certainly applicable here.



To say the least.


I unfortunately am moving to an area. Where the 'main artery', is a road just like this. I would have to stay on it for 1.4mi., before I could get off of it. So I am still wondering what I will do.

When I originally got my road bike in 2003. It came with 700x23. I eventually went to 700x25. I don't think that will be much help with rumble strips. Even if I have the tire pressure. At the top of the PSI rating.
What are the sightlines on this 1.4 mi stretch? I wonder the same thing for potential tours outside of the Ohio to Erie trail: How will I mitigate a rear end collision with overtaking traffic?

I advocate for taking the lane, precisely because that's where an alert driver will be looking for traffic. If the road sees heavy traffic when you ride, that can be in your benefit because a driver will be expecting to stop, or you'll potentially gain a 2 ton guardian on your six while everyone creeps along. A bright rear light helps, maybe two, one flashing (something novel for the driver) and something solid to help gauge distance if light or visibility is poor. However, if there are tighter curves with vegetation that blocks the sightlines, it might be too much of a risk. I want the driver to have as much time to react as possible so I only have to deal with impaired or reckless drivers. If you know your route, you can plan on where to be to either maximize visibility (say, drift toward the center on a tight curve to be in a sightline earlier rather than later in the curve) or well out of the way (shoulder inside the curve).

One of the (poorer planned but necessary) bike routes I regularly use has a chicane followed by a long gentle downhill curve. The city planned this because it's a posted 10mph curve coming from a 25 mph zone transitioning to a 35 mph zone after. They put a bike lane on the shoulder of the curve, but then they're also working on the overpass and have that choked with gravel and debris. The chicane makes me nervous because cars regularly move through it at 25 mph (I'm one of them), so positioning is important there to give traffic time to react. Unfortunately, as infrequently as I use it, I've still had an impatient and reckless driver overtake me down the hill with oncoming traffic, so he could get to the T and stop at the bottom.
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Old 09-06-19, 09:08 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
I unfortunately am moving to an area. Where the 'main artery', is a road just like this. I would have to stay on it for 1.4mi., before I could get off of it. So I am still wondering what I will do.

When I originally got my road bike in 2003. It came with 700x23. I eventually went to 700x25. I don't think that will be much help with rumble strips. Even if I have the tire pressure. At the top of the PSI rating.
Beach cruiser tires might work on the rumble strips.

But, if you stay to the right of the rumbles, you should be OK. Also, you can hear if a car is hitting the rumbles.

If you have to cross the rumbles, slow down to 5-10 MPH, and you can make it across, even with the road bike and 25mm tires.

The worst... in the past, people have posted accident reports where shoulders were narrow, and rumble strips were cut the entire width of the shoulder, forcing the cyclist to ride on the road.
I posted a funny map of a river crossing a few days ago. 10 miles out of the way to cross a river... but there are many things that take me to that extra loop specifically to avoid a 4-lane road, wide shoulders, and rumbles... (and where I have encountered rumbles after midnight, and 170+ miles down the road, and exhausted).
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Old 09-06-19, 09:09 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
Did the cyclist have a rear light to help be seen? Would it have even helped?
They did have a rear light and it obviously did not help. After the impact the red flashing of the blinker can be seen for several minutes.

Last edited by Leisesturm; 09-06-19 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 09-06-19, 09:18 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
Hit-n-Run, is certainly applicable here.
I don't see notes of a hit & run.

State with no front license plates? This might be a reason to require front licenses.

It wouldn't take much to track down the make/model/year/color of the car. If the driver is local, the police could track down every similar car and check them out.

Lots of car parts seem to be left at the scene. Mirror, perhaps a rear bumper cover (license?)
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Old 09-06-19, 09:22 AM
  #38  
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Sigh. FWIW, the shoulder is covered with loose chip seal.

For those who proclaim that this couldn't happen to you because you'd be riding on the shoulder, see this thread by Metric Man.

For those who proclaim that by riding on the other side of the rumble strips you would hear the rumble strips and get out of the way, note that in Metric Man's crash (not accident) from the time the full size pickup touches the fog line at 25.28 to impact at 26.16 is 0.88 seconds. Your cat-like reflexes are much better than mine.

For those who wouldn't ride on such roads, good for you.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 09-11-19 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 09-06-19, 09:23 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
I unfortunately am moving to an area. Where the 'main artery', is a road just like this. I would have to stay on it for 1.4mi., before I could get off of it. So I am still wondering what I will do.
Are you in Witness Protection or something? Why are you 'unfortunately' moving to an area you know will be hostile to your cycling centric lifestyle? None of my business. Your life. I wouldn't do it. I've seen many of your posts and you have racked up an impressive amount of negative interactions with motor vehicles already. What gives? Not why you are moving, that's obviously personal. Why you seem to be such a magnet for road rage, that's what I am genuinely curious about.
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Old 09-06-19, 09:30 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Sigh. FWIW, the shoulder is covered with loose chip seal.

For those who proclaim that this couldn't happen to you because you'd be riding on the shoulder, see this thread by Metric Man.

For those who proclaim that by riding on the other side of the rumble strips you would hear the rumble strips and get out of the way, note that in Metric Man's crash (not accident) from the time the full size pickup touches the fog line at 25.28 to impact at 26.16 is 0.88 seconds. Your cat-like reflexes are much better than mine.

For those who wouldn't ride on such roads, good for you.

-mr. bill
You were doing well until that last line. Weak. If that's all you've got ... well I for one would have waited until I had something stronger. If the rider was not prepared to ride to the right of the rumbles and deal with whatever that entails, then they should have avoided that road. Period. They didn't, and they now have to live with the consequences. The driver has to live with different consequences. I'd rather not to have to live with either set of consequences.
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Old 09-06-19, 09:37 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
They should have avoided that road. Period.
AVOID THIS ROAD! PERIOD!

-mr. bill
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Old 09-06-19, 09:45 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Sigh. FWIW, the shoulder is covered with loose chip seal.

For those who proclaim that this couldn't happen to you because you'd be riding on the shoulder, see this thread by Metric Man.

For those who proclaim that by riding on the other side of the rumble strips you would hear the rumble strips and get out of the way, note that in Metric Man's crash (not accident) from the time the full size pickup touches the fog line at 25.28 to impact at 26.16 is 0.88 seconds. Your cat-like reflexes are much better than mine.

For those who wouldn't ride on such roads, good for you.

Road positioning on those busy streets is complex, with all the road debris on the shoulders.
-mr. bill
Loose chip seal is a problem. Governments should sweep it up, say after a couple of months post application. Of course, there is the accumulation of other road debris.

Rumbles? If I heard them 50 feet behind myself, they would be a strong wake-up.
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Old 09-06-19, 10:14 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Rumbles? If I heard them 50 feet behind myself, they would be a strong wake-up.
If the closing speed is 50 mph, that gives you 0.68 seconds to get out of the way.

-mr. bill
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Old 09-06-19, 12:03 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
What are the sightlines on this 1.4 mi stretch? I wonder the same thing for potential tours outside of the Ohio to Erie trail: How will I mitigate a rear end collision with overtaking traffic?
Apart from a slight hill, and a long curve, it is clear.
Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
I advocate for taking the lane, precisely because that's where an alert driver will be looking for traffic. If the road sees heavy traffic when you ride, that can be in your benefit because a driver will be expecting to stop, or you'll potentially gain a 2 ton guardian on your six while everyone creeps along. A bright rear light helps, maybe two, one flashing (something novel for the driver) and something solid to help gauge distance if light or visibility is poor. However, if there are tighter curves with vegetation that blocks the sightlines, it might be too much of a risk. I want the driver to have as much time to react as possible so I only have to deal with impaired or reckless drivers. If you know your route, you can plan on where to be to either maximize visibility (say, drift toward the center on a tight curve to be in a sightline earlier rather than later in the curve) or well out of the way (shoulder inside the curve).
I am also. A proponent for 'taking the lane'. I also agree about heavy traffic. But heavy traffic on a road w/ a speed limit meant for the interstate is another matter.
Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
One of the (poorer planned but necessary) bike routes I regularly use has a chicane followed by a long gentle downhill curve. The city planned this because it's a posted 10mph curve coming from a 25 mph zone transitioning to a 35 mph zone after. They put a bike lane on the shoulder of the curve, but then they're also working on the overpass and have that choked with gravel and debris. The chicane makes me nervous because cars regularly move through it at 25 mph (I'm one of them), so positioning is important there to give traffic time to react. Unfortunately, as infrequently as I use it, I've still had an impatient and reckless driver overtake me down the hill with oncoming traffic, so he could get to the T and stop at the bottom.
That is why, I 'take the lane'.
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Old 09-06-19, 12:06 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
What is your point? Is that [US-6] the road the cyclist was hit on? BTW, I've checked. I can't find where I said the quoted. Could you please point it out for me? Anyway, I thought that was an east/west road, something about sun in the drivers eyes was said. Pulling out I see a beach road that parallels US-6. I'm not going to work any harder at this. I was commenting on your post as written, not its content. I can't remember, did the road the cyclist get hit on have two lanes in each direction like US-6? Not that it matters much. The cyclist should never have been hit like that. But they were. So the driver should see the inside of a jail cell for some period of time. Did they stop? Have they been identified? Someone said the driver was female?

The A&S forum exists largely to vent the frustrations of a cycling community caught in the bizarro world reality stemming from the fact that a tortured system of inequality that favors overwhelmingly those Americans that drive motor vehicles exists. It has turned the Criminal Justice System into an absolute joke with respect to restitution for the non-driving victims of motorist violence. The rare exceptions arise mainly when the driver belongs to a scapegoat class of American. Recently in NYC a young ethnic driver's egregiously reckless behavior resulted in the death of another person. He will be paying for his and others' crimes for some time to come. The planets won't align like that again for some time. In the meantime ... carry on ...

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Old 09-06-19, 12:10 PM
  #46  
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Cyclist rides in breakdown lane and we are not having this discussion. When did it become safe to ride in the travel lane of an interstate?
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Old 09-06-19, 12:13 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Beach cruiser tires might work on the rumble strips.
Hmmm...
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
But, if you stay to the right of the rumbles, you should be OK. Also, you can hear if a car is hitting the rumbles.
The only problem with the rumble strips, is. While they will alert me to a vehicle behind me. They won't keep a vehicle from hitting me.
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
If you have to cross the rumbles, slow down to 5-10 MPH, and you can make it across, even with the road bike and 25mm tires.
Ok
[QUOTE=CliffordK;21110721]The worst... in the past, people have posted accident reports where shoulders were narrow, and rumble strips were cut the entire width of the shoulder, forcing the cyclist to ride on the road.
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I posted a funny map of a river crossing a few days ago. 10 miles out of the way to cross a river... but there are many things that take me to that extra loop specifically to avoid a 4-lane road, wide shoulders, and rumbles... (and where I have encountered rumbles after midnight, and 170+ miles down the road, and exhausted).
There aren't many alternatives.

Last edited by Chris0516; 09-06-19 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 09-06-19, 12:22 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I don't see notes of a hit & run.

State with no front license plates? This might be a reason to require front licenses.

It wouldn't take much to track down the make/model/year/color of the car. If the driver is local, the police could track down every similar car and check them out.

Lots of car parts seem to be left at the scene. Mirror, perhaps a rear bumper cover (license?)
I hope the driver in the video is local.
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Old 09-06-19, 12:39 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
A similar incident comes to mind. This man was riding to the right off the fog line on a 4 lane divided highway. He didn't survive.
Cancer survivor training for pelotonia struck and killed while riding bike
Off the road means you're invisible.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
What is your point? Is that [US-6] the road the cyclist was hit on?

The A&S forum exists largely to vent the frustrations of a cycling community caught in the bizarro world reality stemming from the fact that a tortured system of inequality that favors overwhelmingly those Americans that drive motor vehicles exists. It has turned the Criminal Justice System into an absolute joke with respect to restitution for the non-driving victims of motorist violence. The rare exceptions arise mainly when the driver belongs to a scapegoat class of American.
I would take exception to the characterization of drivers striking anything as violence. The sad fact is that these motorists are negligent. There's generally no malice in it. We ignore the risk we pose in a car because we don't regularly see the carnage that a momentary lapse in attention brings.

Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
Cyclist rides in breakdown lane and we are not having this discussion. When did it become safe to ride in the travel lane of an interstate?
See the link I shared. If you put yourself in the driver's focus, they might choose to pay attention to you.

The road is apparently US-95 in AZ. Not an interstate highway, but part of the US route system. Interestingly, AZ apparently does not ban bicycles from the interstate highways if there is no suitable alternative route. This is a state highway.
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Old 09-06-19, 01:03 PM
  #50  
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I approached a crossing earlier, and a sports car stopped for me. I didn't want the sports car to stop, I'd have preferred it if the sports car had just gone past, so it'd have been clear for me to proceed quicker and without confusion.

Yeah, this didn't happen. I'm just pointing out how tacky, long-winded and unnecessary it is to call a car an SUV. It's a car. And your car is a car.
And it's especially a car when it's a Toyota Camry.

Last edited by MikeyMK; 09-06-19 at 01:07 PM.
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