Kapusta

Kapusta

mstateglfr 

right, but the other options are to-
- take suggestions from here- a place with countless examples of hardly being precise or accurate.
- take manufacturer's advertising as truth, which is just obviously a bad idea.
- spend a bunch of money on multiple tires and swap em out ride after ride to figure out what feels faster while keeping recent memory in mind(frequent swaps).


while a drum test isnt the be all end all, it's a great place to start when looking at options. I can use the results to reduce 10 tires I am considering based on price to 5 tires and it makes the research that much faster.
what is inaccurate about the drum testing? Are you saying its inaccurate compared to road testing or are you saying its inaccurate due to a repeated error in the testing?

honcho

So which is it :

A. Personally, I’ll go with my subjective impressions in the real world conditions I ride in over relaible, repeatable, and quantifiable results in conditions completely unlike those I ride in.
or
B. If you consider researching what other people find to be fast rolling tires in real world conditions “flying by the seat of my pants”, then yeah, that’s me.

Your subjective impressions or the subjective impressions of others?
Your bike, your time, your money, your ride, your choices.......mostly just giving you a hard time. Have fun!

ogmtb

The OP asked for for "high-quality" rim/tire recommendations. I guess it's understandable that so many folks would ignore that and just recommend whatever clunky stock tire they are riding or the best bargains that they have found on their preferred tire.

Here's another tire/rim to throw into the "high-quality, fast" mix:

WTB Exposure 32s.

fietsbob

Compass tires ?

Mark Manner

I have ENVE SES 4.5AR rims (about 31mm wide) with Schwalbe Pro One 700x28mm tubeless (which measure out on that rim at right at 32mm). I ride them at 50-52psi on pavement and smoothish gravel/dirt and they ride great. [I weigh 145lbs] I am about to set up a more gravel oriented bike with ENVE G23 rims (same width but much more shallow) and Schwalbe G-One Speed 700x35mm. I hear good things about them, but haven't ridden them yet. I know they are expensive, but your high quality question means maybe worth mentioning.
Mark

HTupolev

Most oft-mentioned is the issue of a flat versus a cylindrical rolling surface. Small drums dig into the tread area of a tire and cause it to flex inward in a way that roads don't, and probably create more tread flex relative to sidewall flex than a road does.

The Compass Bon Jon Pass might be a good test case for seeing who's right. It seemed to do alright in Tour's flat-surface rocker test (and I've heard people claim that they've coast-down tested their BJPs to be pretty fast, although I haven't actually seen data), poor on BRR's large drum, and downright abysmal on Tom Anhalt's small rollers.
The drum testers seem confident that this is a result of inconsistent manufacturing across the different tire samples. The folks on the other side of the fence think it's due to the varying degrees to which the test methods represent roads.

mstateglfr 

ok, thanks. This is actually interesting. Wouldn't the tread flex be consistent across all tires though, so it would make all tires show 'poorly'?
or does tread flex theoretically hurt wider tires like compass more?
and with compass being a softer casing, the sidewalls flex more on a bike compared to some other tires, but that flex isnt seen on rolling tests?

just guessing at why it would matter. If all tests have the same issue, the results are still telling...no?

HTupolev

This is the position of the drum testers.

The fact that the drum digs into the tread would be consistent across all tires, but the concern is that this might affect some tires differently from others.
For instance, suppose Tire A has beefy sidewalls and a supple tread, and Tire B has supple sidewalls and beefy tread, and they perform the same on the road. If the drum puts more emphasis on tread hysteresis relative to sidewall hysteresis than the road does, Tire B would look worse than Tire A when they're tested on the drum.

I'm not sure I've seen that brought up, but it's an interesting point. I'm not familiar enough with the particulars to give a good answer.

Doctor Morbius

Perhaps some tire manufacturers are designing their tires to do well with drum tests giving them more marketing appeal to those who value rolling resistance?

Kapusta

I have long had reservations about trusting roller drum tests as a way to simulate real world conditions for two reasons: First is the fact that the roller drum is very smooth. Roads are not, and the fact that a roller drum test ignores that makes them very compromised, IMO. The other issue is the shape of the deflection that the roller drum causes in the tire. Does it make a difference? I don't know, but it is a valid concern.

While I have had these doubts in the back of my head for a while, it was the results of the Bon Jon Pass that really confirmed my doubts. I have ridden a lot of tires in my time, and none have been faster. I am sure there are faster tires, but it is definitely ridiculously fast.

So, when it comes down to it, I am going to take my own (admittedly unscientific) experience in real world conditions over results from a test that are far from it.

BTW, in regards to the Tour test, I believe they show that the BJP was the 4th fasted tire they have tested. Though without knowing how many other tires there were, it is hard to say how impressive that is.

el forestero

Cool, I'll just use my 28 mm tubes. Thanks!

jwalther

Anyone running their Gravelkings tubeless? Curious about your experience.

Craptacular8

I've been curious about these. What is their real life measurement? I've still got a lot of miles left in some Compass 32's that measure out at 32.7 and 33.7 on the same 20m internal width rims, but would like to find something about that same size to run tubeless. I think I've only run across one review, where they were critical of them for fast wear, though if I got over a 1,000, I'm okay with that lifespan. Thanks.

ogmtb

I have over 1,000 miles on this set. 60/40 off-road/pavement mix. Probably have at least another 500 or so before I have to switch them out.