shovelhd

I would think that stopping for a light with auto-pause off would affect TSS, so the opposite should be true. But I'm no wattage weenie. Never will be.

mattm

Ha no wonder my training rides have such low numbers!!

I don't use auto-pause or manually stop the timing, like you said it is what it is.

shovelhd

So am I supposed to go through the numbers and throw out every number above and below the tempo range and reduce the time accordingly? The averages are the only practical thing to go by. When I do tempo I concentrate on three things in decreasing importance: 3s average power, NP, AP. If my AP ends up in the tempo range and NP and AP are within a watt, I did good enough to call it an hour of tempo.

Yesterday NP was 3w higher than AP but the winds were gusting to 35mph and I was getting blown all over the road. Spikey numbers for sure. Nothing I could do about it.

AzTallRider

No need to throw out anything, just remember that the numbers aren't your training, the riding is, and an arithmetic mean of the power on that ride is not necessarily reflective of what you were doing physiologically. NP of course tries to recognize that. If you target that three second average, and don't deviate from your target if your average goes up or down, then you are working your body the way the workout intended you to. Having a perfect average means nothing, if you had to push the power above your intended range to achieve that average. Personally, I use the 3s average. I display AP as a guide to how I'm doing over the longer term maintaining that target, but if having to slow for a bunch of lights has pushed the AP down, I don't increase my target to compensate, just as I'm sure you don't push harder when you watch your average drop sitting at a light with the meter running. I mention this because some people focus overly much on the average, when IMO what is important is how much time you've spent in your target range. I know you know all this stuff, Shovel, but am pointing it out for those who may not.

shovelhd

I guess where I differ with you (and it is just a difference, I ain't gonna do no watt-weenie b+tchfest ) is the value of the averages during the interval. There is no practical way to know exactly how much time I have spent in the range until post ride analysis, and even then, it's more trouble than it's worth. I guess if I rode tempo on a pan flat course I could, but I can't and I don't. I will always go under and over the target range many times during the interval. There's no way to avoid it. Yesterday, with the strong wind, even more so. So knowing that, if the NP and AP are equal, then my pacing is good, and if the NP and AP are in the tempo range, then that's about as good as it gets for the roads I ride on and the conditions I ride in. Part of the benefit of riding tempo, beyond the obvious fitness benefits, is the pacing work, and the focus on RPE versus power and HR. Riding 1+ hours of tempo is a mental challenge, but it pays off in races.

AzTallRider

I hear you, and I don't get obsessed with trying to figure out exactly how much time I've been on target. But if I know I've had to spend more time than usual outside the range due to a bad traffic day or choosing the wrong route for the workout, I'll extend the ride until I feel I've gotten in the assigned time in the assigned range. Gut level. I have 2 hours of pace assigned today, on the TT bike. That can be hard to do because riding in that power range on the TT bike can generate some high speeds, which makes lights/traffic more of an issue. Plus, watching the traffic on a TT bike has its own issues. If I get away from work early enough, I'll haul the bike to where I can ride two hours without breaking cadence or putting a foot down - same area I use for tests.

rkwaki

Interesting read guys and my comments on how I used AP when I had power (or rode). I used AP on recovery rides/commutes as a way to keep myself in check (I like to ride hard all the time) and allow myself to recover. Like you shovel I had my Garmin (when using PTap) set at 3s (I think I started out with 8 fields and that eventually came down to like 4). I'd get off the bike, download the numbers and it would stop there, very little post ride analysis except for days when I felt particularly taxed and was trying to figure what was going on.

Enthalpic

Unless the variations are extreme or prolonged it's ok to use averages.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10527322

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17499023

AzTallRider

For once my memory didn't fail me - I knew there was a reason I had things set the way they are. "Elapsed Time" is clock time; it keeps running even if you auto pause. "Time" and "Current Lap" both pause if you use auto-pause. There doesn't appear to be anything that displays riding time if you don't use auto-pause. So you have to decide whether to:

A. Have an indication of how much time you've spent actually pedaling the bike, which may or may not be important to you (it is to me), or

B. Avoid the WKO+ weird handling of short pauses and, in most people's opinion, improve accuracy a touch in the average calculations.

shovelhd

I am an A rider. I care more about the total amount of work done than the minutia of a watt or two. Rest counts. Different strokes. No worries.

Kwaki, my Garmin can show TSS. I use that for JRA days. I can do just about anything I want as long as I get home with TSS under 50.

valygrl

How do you know if you are peaking, as opposed to still on the way up?

I just did an indoor LT test and matched my peak 20 minute power from a race last August. I hope I'm on the way up to a new high, but how do you tell?

AzTallRider

There are so many vagaries that worrying about a watt or two (or a minute or two) is silly... important thing is to choose the method that works for you, and get on with the training.

shovelhd

Ask your coach

Before I had a coach, I trained in blocks. My peak would come at the start of the next block after a rest week. It is both physical and mental. My legs had good form. Recovery was excellent. Mentally I wanted to rip your legs off and tear your eyeballs out.

gsteinb

50 still sounds high to me for a rest day. Mine are usually sub 20.

shovelhd

50 would be the max. I may go longer, which adds up.

ljrichar

When your LT test is a higher wattage than your CP 20 from last year for starters. The fact that it's only April is a good sign though.

JAX_11

I have read through some of this forum now that I have a Quarq Riken.

1) Is it always so hard to stay on a certain wattage when it changes like every second.(garmin is set up to smart record) I tried to go out and do 200wt well looking at the screen its constantly going from 200 to 240-190-205 every second. How do I actually train like Im instructed if its so hard to keep it consistant, or is there a setting to see the actual numbers better on the garmin 500.

2) Do I use zeros or non zeros for my power and cadence on my garmin when training?

Thanks

bocksta

JAX the Garmin 500 has 3 and 10 second smoothing, That will allow the wattages to appear more stable. Just starting with power the 10 second maybe your best choice. If you ride on a trainer use the 3 second smoothing and you should be able to hold your numbers easier.

powpow

1) I use 3-second power. It's normal for the numbers to fluctuate quite a bit, but you'll get used to it and you should get better at holding a somewhat constant wattage. For intervals I have a separate screen with 3-second power, avg. lap power, and lap time.

2) You want to include the zeros (coasting/resting) in your power numbers.

rbart4506

When training you should be shooting for a wattage range, not a specific wattage...I personally use 3s smoothing and average lap wattage when doing intervals. I pay more attention to the average then I do the 3s number.

Include the zeros with your watts and don't include them with your cadence...

JAX_11

The only setting changes im finding is smart recording or every second. do you know where i might find it

rbart4506

The 3sec, 10sec are in your screen settings...

JAX_11

so thats the 3se 10sec and 30sec average? so every 3 seconds it gives you a average of the last 3 seconds and it keeps resetting every 3 seconds is that correct?

Thank you guys alot.

rbart4506

Yes, exactly...Same for the 10sec and the 30sec...

I'd stick with 3s and maybe 10sec...The other good one is lap average which will allow you to see the average watts for the interval you are doing. It's important for longer intervals, 5min and up...

JAX_11

Awesome thanks.