When did 9/16" x20 become a standard pedal interface?
02-05-24, 01:19 AM
#2
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: Wessex UK
Posts: 111
Bikes: Vintage Raleigh and more modern Roberts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked 158 Times
in
60 Posts
I have seen that thread on pre-WW2 English pedals and like many cycling standards was possibly started by Raleigh who dominated the cycle manufacturing world at the time, others might have more specific information.
02-05-24, 06:10 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,506
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1648 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 843 Times
in
549 Posts
It sounds like it was an "imperial" threading standard, do most likely quite old.....
The other standard, which is French (14 X 1.25, metric?) must be newer.
The other standard, which is French (14 X 1.25, metric?) must be newer.
Last edited by Chombi1; 02-06-24 at 10:39 AM.
Likes For Chombi1:
02-06-24, 01:22 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,115
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 269 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4528 Post(s)
Liked 6,425 Times
in
3,698 Posts
02-06-24, 05:29 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,832
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,334 Times
in
787 Posts
There has always seemed to me an unusual kind of "standard" in pedals, unusual in that it is never mentioned, much less specified.
It's the distance between the front and rear plates - the same in almost every quill and rat-trap.
It's the distance between the front and rear plates - the same in almost every quill and rat-trap.
Likes For oneclick:
02-06-24, 10:19 AM
#6
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,528
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2751 Post(s)
Liked 3,408 Times
in
2,063 Posts
It's also not the only standard as any Ashtabula crank proves.
Likes For dedhed:
02-06-24, 01:22 PM
#7
On the road
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 2,187
Bikes: Old Schwinns and old Raleighs
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 375 Post(s)
Liked 886 Times
in
336 Posts
Use of 9/16 by 20 goes back well before WWII. I've owned bikes from the 1920s and 30s that used it. They were all English-made bikes.
Good observation above - one-piece cranks ran 1/2 pedal shanks as standard. As a bit of additional trivial, the 1/2 inch shank even passed over to the relatively unusual American cottered cranks on bikes like the Schwinn New World and Superior prior to 1952.
Good observation above - one-piece cranks ran 1/2 pedal shanks as standard. As a bit of additional trivial, the 1/2 inch shank even passed over to the relatively unusual American cottered cranks on bikes like the Schwinn New World and Superior prior to 1952.
__________________
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
02-06-24, 01:35 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,517
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 988 Post(s)
Liked 1,653 Times
in
1,062 Posts
That's a good question. I have never known any other threading for pedals and that's even on my old French bikes. I do know that back in the day pedals were changed and exchanged often. In the old bike shops there were many bikes with slightly bent Cottered cranks and trashed pedals waiting for repair...
__________________
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
Likes For zandoval:
02-06-24, 02:28 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,470
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 802 Post(s)
Liked 757 Times
in
413 Posts
It hasn't changed for decades and decades, one of the few standards that has stood the test of time.
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
Likes For Piff:
02-06-24, 02:38 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,875
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2349 Post(s)
Liked 2,862 Times
in
1,558 Posts
It hasn't changed for decades and decades, one of the few standards that has stood the test of time.
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Likes For squirtdad:
02-06-24, 05:55 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,897
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1866 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
507 Posts
Likes For Road Fan:
02-06-24, 06:36 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,451
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2522 Post(s)
Liked 3,008 Times
in
1,711 Posts
It hasn't changed for decades and decades, one of the few standards that has stood the test of time.
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
02-06-24, 06:42 PM
#14
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,851
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2298 Post(s)
Liked 2,057 Times
in
1,256 Posts
BMX did 1/2" for awhile. You can still buy them on Amazon
Likes For clubman:
02-06-24, 06:55 PM
#16
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,015
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1196 Post(s)
Liked 2,606 Times
in
1,091 Posts
Looking at my pics of the Wright Brothers bike in the Smithsonian, it looks like 1/2" to my uncalibrated eye-crometer.
I forget, but I think the bike is late 1890s or maybe early 1900s. US-made of course, so it shines no light on what England would have been doing then.
I have heard it said that the Wrights first used or popularized the use of the left-hand thread for the left pedal. Maybe apochryphal?
I forget, but I think the bike is late 1890s or maybe early 1900s. US-made of course, so it shines no light on what England would have been doing then.
I have heard it said that the Wrights first used or popularized the use of the left-hand thread for the left pedal. Maybe apochryphal?
Last edited by bulgie; 02-06-24 at 06:59 PM.
Likes For bulgie:
02-06-24, 07:32 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 12,066
Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3017 Post(s)
Liked 3,820 Times
in
1,414 Posts
02-06-24, 08:20 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,115
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 269 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4528 Post(s)
Liked 6,425 Times
in
3,698 Posts
Likes For merziac:
02-06-24, 09:01 PM
#20
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,851
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2298 Post(s)
Liked 2,057 Times
in
1,256 Posts
02-07-24, 08:36 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 3,442
Bikes: 1984 Miyata 310, 1986 Schwinn Sierra, 2011 Jamis Quest, 1980 Peugeot TH8 Tandem, 1992 Performance Parabola, 1987 Ross Mt. Hood, 1988 Schwinn LeTour, 1988 Trek 400T, 1981 Fuji S12-S LTD, 197? FW Evans
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Liked 1,034 Times
in
530 Posts
It seems like the 9/16-20 pedal thread has been around about as long as the 1/4"-20 thread for camera tripods. You can mount a 100 year old camera on a modern tripod or a new camera on an old tripod. There were some bigger cameras that had a 3/8" mount, but they came with a bushing to adapt to the standard 1/4" screw.
02-07-24, 12:59 PM
#22
Newbie
Some delving into it with internet searching (which may or may not be apocryphal), it seems that it was standardized/published by the Cycle Engineers Institute (CEI) in Britain first in 1901 and in 1938 were revised as BSC (British Standards Institution as BS811:1950 and thereafter known as British Standard Cycle). By 1950 the standard of having 20 threads per inch with a 60º cut had been dropped but was still included in the index. 20 tpi is more common in Whitworth threads (BSW) but those are cut at 55º. I read that some early Campagnolo cranks were cut to 55º 9/16-20 threads and were considered an Italian thread.
02-07-24, 01:34 PM
#23
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,822
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3601 Post(s)
Liked 3,428 Times
in
1,949 Posts
1/2" x 20tpi has a long history on North American bikes. You can still find it on bikes with one-piece (aka "Ashtabula") cranks and some exercise bikes.
02-07-24, 02:18 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,115
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 269 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4528 Post(s)
Liked 6,425 Times
in
3,698 Posts
Some delving into it with internet searching (which may or may not be apocryphal), it seems that it was standardized/published by the Cycle Engineers Institute (CEI) in Britain first in 1901 and in 1938 were revised as BSC (British Standards Institution as BS811:1950 and thereafter known as British Standard Cycle). By 1950 the standard of having 20 threads per inch with a 60º cut had been dropped but was still included in the index. 20 tpi is more common in Whitworth threads (BSW) but those are cut at 55º. I read that some early Campagnolo cranks were cut to 55º 9/16-20 threads and were considered an Italian thread.
02-07-24, 03:40 PM
#25
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,641
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1680 Post(s)
Liked 1,840 Times
in
1,069 Posts
Some of the items on display in the shop:
*Yep, Henry Ford bought the Wright's cycle shop and had it moved from Dayton to Dearborn!