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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

Old 04-16-20, 10:00 AM
  #4651  
gsteinb
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Holy ****. I have no idea what any of that means :/

There's a world I might need to stay out of.
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Old 04-16-20, 10:42 AM
  #4652  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
The physics engine in Zwift is an interesting thing. I've had to "coach" one of my friends through the Zwift racing world, even though I only have one event under my belt. He's a smaller dude and got DQ'd for having too much power in a B event, but he's never won a race against the huge guys dumping watts. At the end of the race, his average W/kg is huge compared to the guys that won and it bothers him that he's getting beaten by "weaker" "fat" riders. Now that he's getting DQ'd in the B's, he has to race in the A's where he'll get mauled.

I do think Zwift Power's category guidelines are a bit skewed. Dudes that can't crack top ten in cat 3 races or top 20 in Strava leaderboards are winning Zwift B races. Then there are guys like my friend that are routinely top 10 on Strava, and can't podium a Zwift B race to save his life, but are getting DQ'd for having too much power.
Exactly. I'm smaller also and fear after one or two races I'll get mauled being bumped up to A from B. Even if mountainous in Zwift, huge difference from a 4.0 A rider and a 4.5 or 5.0 A rider. Yuge, bigly difference.

Around town, if it's uphill, I'm top 10 leaderboard. Now, it's short 1 to 5min little hills, but it's what we have. But, just to sit in with the huge massive riders I'll be averaging a 4.0 or more at 20min at some point. I threw out 6.1w/kg for 2min the other day to tie a local hill KOM, a new PR for that time range.

I think it should be absolute power based also, not just w/kg. W/kg matters squat in the flatter lands.

But, it's a video game and I still have fun riding solo and doing group workouts or the "z1/z2 cruise but sprint the sprint KOMs".
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Old 04-16-20, 12:04 PM
  #4653  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
The physics engine in Zwift is an interesting thing. I've had to "coach" one of my friends through the Zwift racing world, even though I only have one event under my belt. He's a smaller dude and got DQ'd for having too much power in a B event, but he's never won a race against the huge guys dumping watts. At the end of the race, his average W/kg is huge compared to the guys that won and it bothers him that he's getting beaten by "weaker" "fat" riders. Now that he's getting DQ'd in the B's, he has to race in the A's where he'll get mauled.

I do think Zwift Power's category guidelines are a bit skewed. Dudes that can't crack top ten in cat 3 races or top 20 in Strava leaderboards are winning Zwift B races. Then there are guys like my friend that are routinely top 10 on Strava, and can't podium a Zwift B race to save his life, but are getting DQ'd for having too much power.
I don't quite get dq'ed in the B's but I'm a tweener as well. I don't get top 10's in Strava though but I'm pretty much the top guy at 45+ in all our mountains around here. Zwift is too much of a moving target to take seriously. You'd need weigh ins and calibration tools to ensure all the meters read the same (because about 30% are notably off) and that kind of oversight isn't going to happen.

Also 80% of the events are designed for big guys....group rides neutralize the hills and us light guys get dropped on descents with comments like, 'you're not trying hard enough'. I have to do 300w to keep up on a descent!

Its also fair to bear in mind its a global platform and even though someone is a big fish somewhere, Zwift is a much bigger pond.

Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Holy ****. I have no idea what any of that means :/

There's a world I might need to stay out of.
You'd probably do well and enjoy it. I'd at least try out the free demo (I think its the first 100k is free).
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Old 04-16-20, 12:16 PM
  #4654  
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These are entrants in a recent C race I jumped on during a workout. Several pro level guys here lol
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Old 04-16-20, 12:17 PM
  #4655  
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Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
Zwift is too much of a moving target to take seriously. You'd need weigh ins and calibration tools to ensure all the meters read the same (because about 30% are notably off) and that kind of oversight isn't going to happen.
1000%

It's fun/sad to read the comment sections of the guys that hold Zwift KOM's on Strava. Those are the guys "averaging" 620W up the Epic KOM while only putting in 3 hours a week split between their daily commute and the weekend "big ride". I'm convinced that the top 500 peeps on the Zwift leaderboards are due to spurious data.
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Old 04-16-20, 12:20 PM
  #4656  
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Zwift seems rather...kind to some people.
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Old 04-16-20, 12:22 PM
  #4657  
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So the weight is just whatever number you plug in? And the w/kg is an algorithm using that weight plus whatever other questionable data you provide?
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Old 04-16-20, 12:22 PM
  #4658  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
So the weight is just whatever number you plug in? And the w/kg is an algorithm using that weight plus whatever other questionable data you provide?
correcto-mundo
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Old 04-16-20, 12:25 PM
  #4659  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post
correcto-mundo
Seems fair. Like Strav*******s who put their bike in the car for KOMs.

I guess it would work if you knew and trusted the other riders.

Last edited by big john; 04-16-20 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 04-16-20, 12:28 PM
  #4660  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post
These are entrants in a recent C race I jumped on during a workout. Several pro level guys here lol
How on earth did that guy win by that much???
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Old 04-16-20, 12:33 PM
  #4661  
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I have no clue about that first person, that doesn't jive with the power. I was way off the back, I had a NP of 241 and finished in 29min
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Old 04-16-20, 12:36 PM
  #4662  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post

These are entrants in a recent C race I jumped on during a workout. Several pro level guys here lol
This alone tells me not to ever bother.

That data is so bonkers all over the place it's worthless.

I have to say, averaging 6.4 W/kg for over 21 minutes, without even pushing the HR (159 HR), someone get that guy a contract.

And he didn't even come close to winning somehow?
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Old 04-16-20, 12:49 PM
  #4663  
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Well the winner was at 2.9
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Old 04-16-20, 01:02 PM
  #4664  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
Well the winner was at 2.9
And everyone knows that 2.9 is less than 6.4, and therefore, by the rules of golf cycling, he wins.

Wait, this could be good for me.
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Old 04-16-20, 01:31 PM
  #4665  
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I try to take into consideration that it's the whole world of fast cyclists that use Zwift. That said, the record on alpe du zwift is 28 minutes. I have done 4.8 up it and was 42 minutes, so...
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Old 04-16-20, 01:43 PM
  #4666  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
I try to take into consideration that it's the whole world of fast cyclists that use Zwift. That said, the record on alpe du zwift is 28 minutes...
And that's only 10 mins faster than when Pantani did the real deal. We've come a long way, baby.
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Old 04-16-20, 01:46 PM
  #4667  
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Here's the secret:
https://twitter.com/LeXXiAlexx/statu...404723714?s=20
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Old 04-16-20, 01:47 PM
  #4668  
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It's said Chris Hoy could hit 27 w/kg at peak sprint power.

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Old 04-16-20, 02:14 PM
  #4669  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
So the weight is just whatever number you plug in? And the w/kg is an algorithm using that weight plus whatever other questionable data you provide?
Well, I have a bluetooth scale that submits my weight automatically, so, assuming our scales are properly calibrated, some of us have our accurate weight. Nothing to do about whether people are honest about height though. Or use a powermeter/trainer that makes sense. To be honest, it's been years since I've done anything to try to make sure my powertap is calibrated, but I have to assume that's more accurate than people using a dumb trainer with no power meter and just assuming they have the wheel clamped down hard enough.
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Old 04-16-20, 02:16 PM
  #4670  
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Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
This alone tells me not to ever bother.

That data is so bonkers all over the place it's worthless.

I have to say, averaging 6.4 W/kg for over 21 minutes, without even pushing the HR (159 HR), someone get that guy a contract.

And he didn't even come close to winning somehow?
You notice that only 2 of them recorded their HR.
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Old 04-16-20, 02:18 PM
  #4671  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
When zwift first came, there used to be youtube videos of kids with a powerdrill attached to a sensor going up nice and slow behind someone and then turning up the speed and blasting by them while laughing maniacally.
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Old 04-16-20, 08:00 PM
  #4672  
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Zwift is just a video game and reading the posts on zwift racing / slowtwitch are funny as a kid who grew up playing "real" video games. You learn to ignore the cheaters / hackers / trash talkers and move on real quick. The real competitions happen in environments where those kinds of things don't fly.
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Old 04-16-20, 09:15 PM
  #4673  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
I try to take into consideration that it's the whole world of fast cyclists that use Zwift. That said, the record on alpe du zwift is 28 minutes. I have done 4.8 up it and was 42 minutes, so...
first place is an obvious cheat

2nd place is interesting, international level lightweight rower that does a ton of volume and pushed I believe over 400w (and does so outside regularly as well)
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Old 04-17-20, 06:41 AM
  #4674  
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But why are any of them racing in C?
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Old 04-17-20, 07:15 AM
  #4675  
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For real road riding I sill find that NP and AP don't give the whole story of a ride sometimes. I got home after doing 30mi last night at a solid roll. It was using a lot of neighborhoods to link up parts of town. Decent little rollers, 66 feet per mile elevation.

Then I looked and due to the rollers in spots, I had a total of nearly 5min with zero power and 7.5min under 100w. Tossing the average. I think based on the type of ride I need to see how I can flatten out the route a touch if that's what I'm after.
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