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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

Old 04-17-20, 07:36 AM
  #4676  
burnthesheep
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
And that's only 10 mins faster than when Pantani did the real deal. We've come a long way, baby.
Alpe du Zwift excludes about 2km or so of real life road that is flat to rolling after the "peak" occurs in real life. Watch some old race footage and you'll see it, it's about a solid couple minutes more work to the "line" in real life.
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Old 04-17-20, 08:42 AM
  #4677  
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There are definitely bugs in Zwift.

I bet that first place rider either didn't do the course or had a software issue where Zwift thought s/he was riding when they were not. I've seen a clip of someone not on their bike, bike is stationary, but Zwift is showing them going 40 or 50 mph. I know that until recently if I was pedaling softly while Zwift was loading, Zwift would over read my power. I think my pedaling was considered "zero" but the power reading from the SRM was used to calculate power. So I'd start rolling along at about 100w, not pay attention to screen, then look up and Zwift has me at 250-300w, which for me is a VO2Max effort. I'd stop, let everything go to zero, start riding, and it would be fine. I'm aware of this so I keep an eye out when starting Zwift rides; recently it seems that this got fixed as I haven't seen it happen in a month or two.

Because Zwift is the Wild West of power/weight/etc, a lot of "more serious" riders use Zwift Power to get the "real placings". Requires HR, powermeter of some kind, some other stuff I think?

My best recent ride I avg 203w (26min), I was at 2.5 w/kg, and I got 2nd in a D race. However, at the line, pretty much everyone was over 3.0 w/kg (max is 2.5 w/kg) so in ZwiftPower I'm listed as first. Thing is that in real life for me to avg 203w is really, really hard, and I was cramping and in all sorts of trouble 15 minutes into the race. I had to use all my tricks to try and stay in the group for another 10 or so minutes. I was pretty cooked in the sprint, afraid of cramping, so I went early and hoped that people wouldn't go with me and then go around at the end. https://www.strava.com/activities/3296024835

In an earlier race (the only other one I "won"), I was probably 5 groups back from the front, like I was getting shelled over and over again. A group caught me that was more my speed, I stayed with them, and ended up "winning" the D race to my total surprise. That was 192w, and definitely wrecked me (43min long). The C race winner did 3.4 w/kg, 1 w/kg more than me, which is insane. I was well below that in FTP when I upgraded to 2 (3.1 w/kg). https://www.strava.com/activities/2874725466

I generally don't race because I can do well in a D race and I can't do anything in a C race. If there was a shorter 3.0 w/kg limit race I'd consider it.
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Old 04-17-20, 08:57 AM
  #4678  
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Perhaps the answer is to allow race organizers to set the limits and categories instead of seemingly random w/kg zones Zwift chose. Like, custom per the race. Or allow categorization based on prior race results, particularly for TT.

To show how broken some of the TTT stuff is, our group never got booted but bypassed the "system" by having a team A or A+ rider just pull the entire time. You get an 85kg dude holding 350w+ for 45min you're going to go faster just letting him pull instead of having the B riders pull each other at only 300w per turn. No joke, at times the rest of us B's were on superthreshold HR almost the entire time just getting pulled by the A+ dude. Other teams were doing the same thing also. On the flat 28+ mph average speeds for road bike for the TTT for B category. Lol.

I'll try the B and see how it goes. I feel there I could sit in, do some attacks on hills or something. A? It would just be a bunch of boring SS/threshold work just to sit in. I'd rather sit in in Z2 lower Z3 and attack or respond instead.

I couldn't find it, but there's apparently a few "super sprint" 5min races. There's a video of Vegan Cyclist up against a friend who is a body builder. Humorous fun looking little race:

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Old 04-17-20, 08:58 AM
  #4679  
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Originally Posted by wktmeow View Post
first place is an obvious cheat

2nd place is interesting, international level lightweight rower that does a ton of volume and pushed I believe over 400w (and does so outside regularly as well)
Yep, plenty of real unicorns on Zwift.
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Old 04-17-20, 09:29 AM
  #4680  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
There are definitely bugs in Zwift.

I bet that first place rider either didn't do the course or had a software issue where Zwift thought s/he was riding when they were not. I've seen a clip of someone not on their bike, bike is stationary, but Zwift is showing them going 40 or 50 mph. I know that until recently if I was pedaling softly while Zwift was loading, Zwift would over read my power. I think my pedaling was considered "zero" but the power reading from the SRM was used to calculate power. So I'd start rolling along at about 100w, not pay attention to screen, then look up and Zwift has me at 250-300w, which for me is a VO2Max effort. I'd stop, let everything go to zero, start riding, and it would be fine. I'm aware of this so I keep an eye out when starting Zwift rides; recently it seems that this got fixed as I haven't seen it happen in a month or two.

Because Zwift is the Wild West of power/weight/etc, a lot of "more serious" riders use Zwift Power to get the "real placings". Requires HR, powermeter of some kind, some other stuff I think?

My best recent ride I avg 203w (26min), I was at 2.5 w/kg, and I got 2nd in a D race. However, at the line, pretty much everyone was over 3.0 w/kg (max is 2.5 w/kg) so in ZwiftPower I'm listed as first. Thing is that in real life for me to avg 203w is really, really hard, and I was cramping and in all sorts of trouble 15 minutes into the race. I had to use all my tricks to try and stay in the group for another 10 or so minutes. I was pretty cooked in the sprint, afraid of cramping, so I went early and hoped that people wouldn't go with me and then go around at the end. https://www.strava.com/activities/3296024835

In an earlier race (the only other one I "won"), I was probably 5 groups back from the front, like I was getting shelled over and over again. A group caught me that was more my speed, I stayed with them, and ended up "winning" the D race to my total surprise. That was 192w, and definitely wrecked me (43min long). The C race winner did 3.4 w/kg, 1 w/kg more than me, which is insane. I was well below that in FTP when I upgraded to 2 (3.1 w/kg). https://www.strava.com/activities/2874725466

I generally don't race because I can do well in a D race and I can't do anything in a C race. If there was a shorter 3.0 w/kg limit race I'd consider it.
I can't remember if it was the 1st or 3rd strava result but one of them was obviously weight doping. His photos showed that he was middle aged and of not very athletic looking build, definitely not a small guy. Then he has a screenshot of his avatar doing 110w and it reading 2.1 w/kg on the side
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Old 04-17-20, 10:04 AM
  #4681  
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Originally Posted by wktmeow View Post
I can't remember if it was the 1st or 3rd strava result but one of them was obviously weight doping. His photos showed that he was middle aged and of not very athletic looking build, definitely not a small guy. Then he has a screenshot of his avatar doing 110w and it reading 2.1 w/kg on the side
Ha. Well there's that too.

Around here there was a Masters rider that was out of the scene for a while. Then he popped up on Zwift, was rolling around at 5 w/kg for long periods of time. Everyone figured he just needed to calibrate or something. Then the outside racing started and he rode away from the fields, time trialing alone. Ends up as his son was getting way into racing and the dad wanted to support. Both had a tremendous season that year. The son (14 or 15 at the time?) could work in a P123 race, and contest a 3 race. The dad was doing super well in M45 races.
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Old 04-17-20, 11:51 AM
  #4682  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
Ha. Well there's that too.

Around here there was a Masters rider that was out of the scene for a while. Then he popped up on Zwift, was rolling around at 5 w/kg for long periods of time. Everyone figured he just needed to calibrate or something. Then the outside racing started and he rode away from the fields, time trialing alone. Ends up as his son was getting way into racing and the dad wanted to support. Both had a tremendous season that year. The son (14 or 15 at the time?) could work in a P123 race, and contest a 3 race. The dad was doing super well in M45 races.
This is where I do feel Zwift is not an accurate demographic of all cycling at all. You've gotta be a bit more "into it" to pay the monthly fee for virtual cycling and even more into it to buy a $500 to $1200 smart trainer and fan and gear to do it indoors. To me, that narrows the scope from a ton of your C and B group real life riders a whole lot. In other words, the average power and w/kg on Zwift is probably a bit higher due to the population difference versus the real world.

If all those folks were there also, it might make more sense. So the story of the dad and son you presented would be much more common on Zwift than on the local isolated scene.

I'll tell you the folks smashing it now..........the freaking triathletes who can't go swimming. You go from folks who were just "middle of the road" Kona athletes doing 20 hrs a week 3 combined sports down to just two sports and probably dominantly the bike to avoid running overuse injury.........and yeah. It could get nuts real quick. Folks with no top end but a mammoth base and ftp suddenly applying that to intensity. Yikes.
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Old 04-17-20, 12:38 PM
  #4683  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I'll tell you the folks smashing it now..........the freaking triathletes who can't go swimming. You go from folks who were just "middle of the road" Kona athletes doing 20 hrs a week 3 combined sports down to just two sports and probably dominantly the bike to avoid running overuse injury.........and yeah. It could get nuts real quick. Folks with no top end but a mammoth base and ftp suddenly applying that to intensity. Yikes.
As much as I make fun of triathletes, I can't deny their aerobic zaniness. Lionel Sanders recently took the Mt. Lemmon KOM from Gaimon at 382W avg with a max HR of 141 bpm (avg 138) for over an hour an fifteen minutes.

Just bananas, man.
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Old 04-17-20, 02:54 PM
  #4684  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
As much as I make fun of triathletes, I can't deny their aerobic zaniness. Lionel Sanders recently took the Mt. Lemmon KOM from Gaimon at 382W avg with a max HR of 141 bpm (avg 138) for over an hour an fifteen minutes.

Just bananas, man.
Lionel isn't just some triathlete. He's probably the most physically gifted triathlete out there. He's a World Champ and would probably be dominant if he didn't have the tactical acumen of a Cat 4 (and a few injuries). So go ahead and make fun of them!

For real though that sport is a full time job. What a cyclist gets to do is 10x funner than triathletes.
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Old 04-17-20, 03:17 PM
  #4685  
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Sorry, I can't respect someone that intentionally runs.
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Old 04-18-20, 09:58 AM
  #4686  
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Our dog was attacked by 3 Corgis yesterday!

On our afternoon walk with my wife, they came out from a house in corgi tripod formation and made a b-line to our pitbull. I picked her up just in time as one just nipped her leg, so I had to run away with a 50 lb dog in my arms. The gave chase. The owner was saying, 'It's okay, they're harmless!'

I wasn't escaping to save my dog, but theirs. She wasn't at all antagonized by the dogs, but one bite in the wrong spot and we're in civil court.

I wish it was on camera, must have looked hilarious seeing a guy carrying a pitbull being chased my an army of Corgis.
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Old 04-18-20, 12:38 PM
  #4687  
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People. My wife and I just had confrontations with two different people who were hiking a popular trail with their dogs off leash. They’re harmless - really sets my wife offf.
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Old 04-18-20, 01:40 PM
  #4688  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
People. My wife and I just had confrontations with two different people who were hiking a popular trail with their dogs off leash. They’re harmless - really sets my wife offf.
My lab wouldn't hurt anyone intentionally, but I still don't let her bother people or run around off leash basically anywhere that isn't a dog park. People suck.
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Old 04-18-20, 01:48 PM
  #4689  
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Just because their dog is harmless doesn't mean mine is.
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Old 04-18-20, 03:23 PM
  #4690  
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Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
Our dog was attacked by 3 Corgis yesterday!

On our afternoon walk with my wife, they came out from a house in corgi tripod formation and made a b-line to our pitbull. I picked her up just in time as one just nipped her leg, so I had to run away with a 50 lb dog in my arms. The gave chase. The owner was saying, 'It's okay, they're harmless!'

I wasn't escaping to save my dog, but theirs. She wasn't at all antagonized by the dogs, but one bite in the wrong spot and we're in civil court.

I wish it was on camera, must have looked hilarious seeing a guy carrying a pitbull being chased my an army of Corgis.
My neighbor has an obnoxious Corgi/Pomeranian looking thing. One day he was barking his head off at me and Mrs John through a hole in the fence. My cat calmly walked over and slapped the dog so hard he ran away. He's a big cat but usually quite docile.
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Old 04-18-20, 04:26 PM
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Lieutenant Dan (channel Forest Gump) was commissioned yesterday, graduated today. He's coming "home" for a bit as travel is restricted for military.
As an officer he will have access to some of the most beautiful cycling routes around.
Then he is off to Luke AFB PHX, to make coffee while waiting for pilot training, although there might be more I don't know about.
Luke is also a few miles from the Valley of the Sun ITT course. He has done well on his investments (credits mom, some dad), so may also buying real-estate there.

This year was to be his all-in cycling year. That is a bust. He won the only collegiate race he entered - an ITT - 1/32 on clinchers.
He could not defend his CO state P1 crit win as that was canceled - Oy vey.

He is among the most skilled in what is needed for his next job. I am sad, it is not cycling. I will always have some misgivings about that, but that is mostly romance. I think he's pretty pumped right now.
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Old 04-18-20, 10:33 PM
  #4692  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Lieutenant Dan (channel Forest Gump) was commissioned yesterday, graduated today. He's coming "home" for a bit as travel is restricted for military.
As an officer he will have access to some of the most beautiful cycling routes around.
Then he is off to Luke AFB PHX, to make coffee while waiting for pilot training, although there might be more I don't know about.
Luke is also a few miles from the Valley of the Sun ITT course. He has done well on his investments (credits mom, some dad), so may also buying real-estate there.

This year was to be his all-in cycling year. That is a bust. He won the only collegiate race he entered - an ITT - 1/32 on clinchers.
He could not defend his CO state P1 crit win as that was canceled - Oy vey.

He is among the most skilled in what is needed for his next job. I am sad, it is not cycling. I will always have some misgivings about that, but that is mostly romance. I think he's pretty pumped right now.
Congrats to you and your son. Great things to come, I'm sure.

Found this pic while scrolling through Instagram tonight.

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Old 04-21-20, 08:42 PM
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Old 04-21-20, 10:04 PM
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I wonder how those tires would compare to today. Willing to bet those silk tubies probably would still stand the test of time.
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Old 04-21-20, 10:23 PM
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Some of them are cheaper than inner tubes.
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Old 04-22-20, 07:18 AM
  #4696  
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Did some quick google conversions, and those would only cost $50-70 in today's money (basically asked it to convert $6-8 in '65 money, so I didn't look at the cheap ones). For some reason, I'd been expecting them to be more expensive than that. I fitted some old school tire savers to my wife's bike a while back, and, when I took it to the shop, the mechanic asked me if they were just there to make noise. I explained what they did, and I'd just figured they were used back in the day because sew ups were expensive. I put them on my wife's bike because she's not a big cyclist and was hoping to reduce the likelihood of a flat because a flat out in the middle of nowhere would likely turn not much of a cyclist into not at all. Especially if I'm not around to fix it, even though I have all the stuff in her saddle pack.
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Old 04-23-20, 07:35 PM
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Old 04-24-20, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
Givin' em the ol' bowling ball
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Old 04-24-20, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
Givin' em the ol' bowling ball
wedgie
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Old 04-24-20, 08:47 AM
  #4700  
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That was during a 6 day track event - Madison race. Today, we use the throw where we grab the partners hand and throw them into the race. When I supervised track and taught beginners, I used the old Madison push as a training exercise. The idea was to ride slowly side by side on the banking and release one hand from the bar and just slightly touch the back of the partner with a gentle push. This was done in connection with the standard bumping / contact drills.
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