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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 06-30-20, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
I don't really understand how racing on Zwift is supposed to work. First off, why does w/kg even matter unless it's all climbing? Even if they estimate your frontal area based on weight it shouldn't make THAT much of a difference, right? Also, can't people just input whatever weight they want?
The speed in Z is mostly w/kg based. Not entirely sure how the speed is calculated but it's overly emphasized compared to real racing. Maybe something about their being too much variation in actual w/CdA among riders with similar height and weight? IDK there just making a guess. Also, drafting does work, but it's minimized compared to real life.

Lastly yes, you can input whatever weight you want. You're supposed to be honest about it, but there is no real way to check it. When they did the virtual Tour de Gila a few months back. USAC required that certain riders made a video of them weighing themselves every morning before the stages.
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Old 06-30-20, 09:25 PM
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There's also an informal "A+" category as well that you can't sign up for, but some riders are categorized as. Like pros and stuff.

I'm not the highest FTP style rider and so at my weight (145 lbs) I'm a mid pack rider on a longer climb. At this point I've come to learn that I have a left-leaning pursuit profile if you will, meaning I have a decent sprint but from 1-3 minutes I excel versus my competitors. Also I have great anaerobic recovery so I can get up the road and then roll a break or TTT with some pretty tough riders. Also I have never recorded any data but I just feel like I have a pretty aero/low profile on the bike for my size and can maintain speed with less power than most people with my height (5'9") and weight.

Of course none of that matters of Zwift, and I'm still just making excuses for why I got dropped today. I looked it up, and most of the top 5 today in the race averaged 5.0+ w/kg for the first 20 (of ~40) minutes... . That's about my best ever 20 min outdoor performance, set on Fiesta Island with a steadier effort and some heroic motivation.
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Old 07-01-20, 09:49 AM
  #15053  
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more sweet spot, 3x20 @ 90, 94, 92%, HR barely cracked 160 even at 94% so that's a win (humidity in basement was at 70% and mid 70's temp). tomorrow is 3x30 @ 90% which was tough for me on Sat so hoping I'm better fueled to better do this one.
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Old 07-01-20, 11:27 AM
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Ended my June with a terrible time trial. Still dealing with hip issues and of course 10 minutes into the race things dropped off a cliff despite feeling great during my warmup.

Oh well. 39.5 hours and 620 miles for June, so not all is lost. The club races this year we arent giving points so in the end it matters only for fitness.
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Old 07-02-20, 08:50 AM
  #15055  
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nailed my 3x30 @ 90% today, again HR stayed under 160 for the most part, feeling especially good because I suffered through this one on Saturday (likely due to not eating that much in the day prior), easy z2 tomorrow and then hopefully going out and riding 100 miles one of the weekend days so wrap up the serious work portion of the SSB2 block (also curious to see how I do going from max 2hr indoors straight to 100 miles). CTL is 88
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Old 07-03-20, 10:35 AM
  #15056  
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Haven't been riding much. I ramped for a gravel race then tapered-ish for it only to have the promoter cancel the race 4 days before it was supposed to happen (covid protocols would be followed, etc). Not only is this physically crappy, but even worse is the mental/emotional damage. This whole season has been months of effort towards specific events, then having the rug pulled out from under me at the last minute. Canceling hotel reservations, PTO requests, resetting the TrainingPeaks calendar...it's wearing on my happiness outside of cycling.

The wife and I wanted to go camping this weekend (not because of the 4th, but because we like to camp), but ditched it because the woods are literally the only thing thats open to people right now. We camp to get AWAY from people, but it's likely that the woods is exactly where everyone is. Hoping to get some decent base miles in before hopping back on a maintenance/sweet spot plan next week. There's a Gran Fondo "happening" on the 25th that will have a time trial format for 134 miles (?!). I'm not working my riding around it in order to avoid potential disappointment, so IF it happens, it'll be on whatever legs I might have that day.
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Old 07-04-20, 07:46 AM
  #15057  
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Yeah the season has been a bit of a bust for most. I got some good racing in including Valley of the Sun and Tour de Murrieta, but those are 4+ months back at this point. Even the weekly track series is something to get jazzed about - it's a fun, tight-knit community and there are some hitters out there in the "A's". It's cool to be able to instigate pace and attacks out there when I'm going very well.

In regards to the camping - is dispersed camping and option up there on National Forest (USFS) or BLM land? Campgrounds are certainly going to be full. I did that once with the lady on what was supposed to be our wedding weekend (5/9), and although less accommodating and comfortable, the privacy and "remoteness" were nice. I might do it again.
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Old 07-04-20, 12:45 PM
  #15058  
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My road bike left the trainer for the first time since August. Did 100miles today, not bad considering all my training is a max of 2hrs. It was 267tss, almost 3500kj and np of 200w. I only consumed about 1100cal so kept the pace conservative and still had some in the tank at the end.
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Old 07-04-20, 02:27 PM
  #15059  
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Longest ride in a while for me yesterday, 60 miler partially with friends. No power meter on the Venge yet but pace was laid back. No breakfast other than coffee, and a muffin 30 miles in with coffee #2 .

Hour on zwift today at 120ish bpm and 170 watts. Easing back into it. Also ran a couple easy miles with the wife and kid. I might order some trail running shoes as well, I'm starting to enjoy jogging
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Old 07-05-20, 04:04 PM
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19 mile hike yesterday, 5000 feet of vertical. We started out near that little pond way back on the left (not the lake - keep looking left), then traversed the ridge and all its peaks eventually descending down that one on the right and heading out of the wood like 7 miles away.





We went up the infamous Macomb Slide



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Old 07-05-20, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
19 mile hike yesterday, 5000 feet of vertical. We started out near that little pond way back on the left (not the lake - keep looking left), then traversed the ridge and all its peaks eventually descending down that one on the right and heading out of the wood like 7 miles away.
Does your son do that stuff with you?
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Old 07-05-20, 05:28 PM
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He was there, yes.

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Old 07-06-20, 07:36 AM
  #15063  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
He was there, yes.
Very cool.
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Old 07-06-20, 09:08 AM
  #15064  
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Took yesterday off after the 100miles Saturday and felt like I could go again, always a good sign. Mondays are usually off for me but I’m at my parents with no trainer so I need to just get out when I can. Went 2hrs today and was pretty unstructured, legs were feeling good so I pushed it in one of the only areas I know I can pace well. Ended up with an IF of 0.91 for about 37mins and felt great (my HR avg 145 when I usually do just under 160 at 90 percent indoors), so hopefully that means a threshold bump next week. Also did the ride fasted, not that I’m actively trying to do any goofy dietary thing, but more and more I’m just a get up and go person out of necessity. I’ll take it easier the rest of the week since it is recovery week
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Old 07-07-20, 12:03 PM
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Had a great week last week, and really strong rides Friday and Saturday. I felt amazing. Took Sunday and Monday off and got lots of rest, only to hop on the bike early this morning and my legs felt like they were on fire, so I called it quits after 20 minutes. It was like they wouldn't "open up" and I had this crazy burning sensation at anything over 150w (less than half my ftp). Legs feel better now after being awake for 8 hours. Anyone else have this happen after a couple day break?

Edit: Went for an afternoon ride same day, legs felt great.

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Old 07-07-20, 12:39 PM
  #15066  
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Things are improving. Getting a little consistency. Based on the last couple sets of 2x20s, I think I'm ready to retest.
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Old 07-07-20, 01:20 PM
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We had a solid weekend of riding doing two coast rides from Del Mar to Carlsbad and back. 70 miles and 4 hours of riding. I took my R5 on Sunday and the SRM battery is dead so I did not have any power. I felt like a blind man without his cane.

Yesterday, I had my piano lesson. I am making solid progress on my Bach fugue playing the four voices with two hands. Old dogs can learn new tricks. My teacher said, to take 4 days off the Fugue to give my brain a chance to connect up all the neurology. I am going to play other easier stuff.

Improving cycling is more about pedal smashing and physiology but I think there is a significant neurological component where the brain needs time to connect up all the wiring.
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Old 07-08-20, 09:05 AM
  #15068  
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Recovery week, just enjoying the outdoor rides in the morning, around 70tss, although my HR at 185w (nominally 0.65 IF) has been averaging like 122 or so, which has been where my HR has been during my warmups at 50% indoors

the thing Iím adjusting to outdoors versus indoors in erg mode is my cadence, with the flywheel indoors Iím in the mid 90s and outdoors Iím mid to upper 80s. And of course being on 8 speed it gets a little challenging to dial in the right mix of watts and cadence sometimes. Anyhow thatís the overanalysis portion of this lol
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Old 07-08-20, 12:25 PM
  #15069  
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3 hrs on Z this morning, Watopia "Pretzel" route plus a little extra warmup before logging on and then some extra sweet spot in Fuego Flats after. Good for 3 hrs of mid z2.

I like to ride the trainer at 100% difficulty to simulate hills realistically, but man that radio tower climb sucked at a constant 15%.... With my gearing I had to ride it 4.5-5.0 w/kg just to keep a reasonable cadence. My H3 flywheel squeaks a bit with low cadence.
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Old 07-08-20, 01:50 PM
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Looking back my old self directed training over the first few months back on the bike, I had a time in zone of around 50% endurance, 35% tempo, and 15% FTP+. The last 4 weeks my coach has my time in zone around 80% endurance, 5% tempo, and 15% FTP+. Similar amount of kJ / week, but a little more saddle time. Overall I feel better in general, with less fatigue during the week, and my power numbers have made huge improvements. Starting to wonder if the polarized model *is* in fact a better way to go than doing a ton of SST...
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Old 07-08-20, 03:24 PM
  #15071  
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Originally Posted by procrit View Post
Looking back my old self directed training over the first few months back on the bike, I had a time in zone of around 50% endurance, 35% tempo, and 15% FTP+. The last 4 weeks my coach has my time in zone around 80% endurance, 5% tempo, and 15% FTP+. Similar amount of kJ / week, but a little more saddle time. Overall I feel better in general, with less fatigue during the week, and my power numbers have made huge improvements. Starting to wonder if the polarized model *is* in fact a better way to go than doing a ton of SST...
I'm starting to be more convinced that it is, just from looking at other sports like rowing. The "get sorta quick fast" plan (the popular one I've seen for rowing is the Pete Plan) is a lot more similar to a heavy sweet spot cycling plan, but the long term development advice seems to be more like "lots of steady state with a little bit of more intense efforts.'" I have to wonder at the minimal effective dose of the z2 work, though.

I just put together my endurance plan for the summer on TP. Might be a little ambitious with all the kid and other stuff going on but I'll try my best. The gist of it is:

Mon - Off/Easy
Tues - Z2 1-2 Hours
Weds - Z5 Intervals, each week progressively longer duration intervals until 4x8
Thurs - Z2 1-2 Hours, weights in the evening (Deadlifts and Press, following Wendler's 5/3/1)
Fri - Easy/Off
Sat - Endurance Ride - Starting at 3 hours and working up to 5 hours - wife is OK with the longer rides as long as I start early and don't make too many coffee stops
Sun - ~2 hours with FTP Efforts, starting with 2x15 and working up to 2x30, weights in the evening (Squats and benchpress 5/3/1)

Rest and test every 6 weeks

Subsequent blocks will likely start with longer FTP intervals too, probably 2x20 or 2x25 as I get more fit.

I'll likely either replace or supplement some of the mid-week days with running or rowing as well. I'm enjoying mixing it up a bit these days, and I'm able to use the jogging stroller to get lunch runs in during the work day, which gives my wife a well deserved break.
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Old 07-08-20, 05:46 PM
  #15072  
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The weather is ******g killing me, it is so hot and humid. It's like insta-overheat anytime i try to do something. My inner phhhhhrrrrreak is grounded and blasting purple rain era Prince all alone in its room, rocking gently back and forth waiting for daddy to set it free.
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Old 07-08-20, 09:10 PM
  #15073  
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Originally Posted by wktmeow View Post
I'm starting to be more convinced that it is, just from looking at other sports like rowing. The "get sorta quick fast" plan (the popular one I've seen for rowing is the Pete Plan) is a lot more similar to a heavy sweet spot cycling plan, but the long term development advice seems to be more like "lots of steady state with a little bit of more intense efforts.'" I have to wonder at the minimal effective dose of the z2 work, though.

I just put together my endurance plan for the summer on TP. Might be a little ambitious with all the kid and other stuff going on but I'll try my best. The gist of it is:

Mon - Off/Easy
Tues - Z2 1-2 Hours
Weds - Z5 Intervals, each week progressively longer duration intervals until 4x8
Thurs - Z2 1-2 Hours, weights in the evening (Deadlifts and Press, following Wendler's 5/3/1)
Fri - Easy/Off
Sat - Endurance Ride - Starting at 3 hours and working up to 5 hours - wife is OK with the longer rides as long as I start early and don't make too many coffee stops
Sun - ~2 hours with FTP Efforts, starting with 2x15 and working up to 2x30, weights in the evening (Squats and benchpress 5/3/1)

Rest and test every 6 weeks

Subsequent blocks will likely start with longer FTP intervals too, probably 2x20 or 2x25 as I get more fit.

I'll likely either replace or supplement some of the mid-week days with running or rowing as well. I'm enjoying mixing it up a bit these days, and I'm able to use the jogging stroller to get lunch runs in during the work day, which gives my wife a well deserved break.
For me, I can start to ďfeelĒ my legs develop some fatigue after about 90 minutes of Z2 and assume thatís about my minimum. My coach has given me 90-120 min z2 rides during the week and I usually just do the 120 if I have the time / start early enough in the morning.

I also seem to have my endurance days after a day of intervals, not the other way around. Like 3-4 hours of z2 would after a big vo2 max interval day. My vo2 intervals would be really difficult to do full gas after 80-90 miles the day before. Something to think about.
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Old 07-08-20, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by procrit View Post
For me, I can start to “feel” my legs develop some fatigue after about 90 minutes of Z2 and assume that’s about my minimum. My coach has given me 90-120 min z2 rides during the week and I usually just do the 120 if I have the time / start early enough in the morning.

I also seem to have my endurance days after a day of intervals, not the other way around. Like 3-4 hours of z2 would after a big vo2 max interval day. My vo2 intervals would be really difficult to do full gas after 80-90 miles the day before. Something to think about.
I think I feel the same, some of the shorter z2 stuff seems to serve as a bridge to the next workout to prevent going stale more than anything. I try to get the most out of the shorter z2 stuff by trying to get the sessions in before breakfast when I can, and doing them on the trainer or Fiesta Island to maximize quality. Sometimes I'll do them at low cadence as well (theory being more muscle fibers are recruited and stimulated this way, iirc some of the adaptations from longer rides come from your slow twitch fibers being fatigued later in the ride so, you end up recruiting more of the intermediate/fast twitch ones. I think the low cadence stuff is an attempt to sort of hack that. Not sure if related, but rowers seem to do a lot their steady state at fairly low stroke rates and tend to be aerobic monsters from my experience, so I have a suspicion that there's a similar effect going on)

Vo2 would definitely be super tough after a long day. Threshold work is doable - I did a lot of weekends similar to this setup when I was being coached, with the weight training on Sunday night as well. But, it was only weights once a week then. Hopefully twice a week isn't overdoing it. I would have done the vo2 stuff on Thursday, but from my experience it would definitely compromise the amount I could lift after. I tried to schedule the lifting after the hard sessions and before a rest day. I believe it's PGC1 alpha (edit: sorry, nope, it's AMPK) that inhibits mTOR, but not vice versa, so my understanding is that doing weights after should not hinder aerobic adaptations from the earlier session, and by not doing cardio work after weights, it allows the muscular adaptations to continue as well.

There's a good chance I'm way off on some of this, so pardon my kooky hypothesizing. A bit is from reading a bunch of stuff online, a bit is from things I picked up from my coach that seemed to be effective but that he never gave me an adequate explanation for. Hopefully I'll find out in a few months if it's effective! Another one is that I'm taking a PQQ + CoQ10 supplement, because I suspect that lack of mitochondrial density and/or quality is an issue for me.

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Old 07-09-20, 06:59 AM
  #15075  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
The weather is ******g killing me, it is so hot and humid. It's like insta-overheat anytime i try to do something. My inner phhhhhrrrrreak is grounded and blasting purple rain era Prince all alone in its room, rocking gently back and forth waiting for daddy to set it free.
The heat has been the reason ive been riding at 5am the past 2 rides (this morning and yesterday). Planning on more 5am rides next week since the forecasted highs are damn near 100
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