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Training Status??? (IV)

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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 07-14-20, 10:45 AM
  #15101  
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ramp test day, and in my case 2 ramp tests lol I did the first on trainerroad at 7:30am, made it 17mins and decided I wasn't feeling it, despite having pretty awesome legs and lots of motivation. Just did the zwift version, which has 20w steps as opposed to TR's percentage jumps. Made it to 20mins, which is break even 285w for me, and as I tend to do I stop in anticipation of the really gruesome step as opposed to really emptying the tank, so maybe I had 15sec left in me. I don't doubt my fitness has improved, so I'll bump up 5w and see how things go. I'm doing a short power build, so I don't want to go nuts lol
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Old 07-14-20, 02:47 PM
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Taking it easy this week, short ab workout and jog last night, easy hour on Zwift this morning. Might hit up my TT bike on Fiesta tomorrow for a little time in position, then the Zwift TTT on Thursday night, which will likely be my only harder effort.

I am now entering my de-training phase, where I will remain for the next 3 months before I start to ramp up for 2021 sometime in October. Hopefully we get a full season! After our mini-honeyoon to Napa in June, my wife was kind enough to let me focus on training for one more block. I wasn't sure what for or why - just that I was in good shape and wanted to keep it going another month.

For the next three months I'll focus on prioritizing other plans first, then working my cycling around that. For much of the year things are the other way around for me. It's time to go to the beach, hike, backpack, camp and do other things for a while. The lady and I would love to go on an actual honeymoon as well but anything international is certainly out of the question. We originally wanted somewhere with beautiful mountains and red wine, Spain, France, Italy or New Zealand. Maybe we can scrounge up a domestic trip somehow, which also seems like a bit of a stretch with things going back into lockdown due to the pandemic. What a year!!!
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Old 07-15-20, 09:09 AM
  #15103  
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Old guys are scared to detrain for fear that what is lost will not return. This theory is perpetuated in social media and by some coaches. Yes, age does seem to reek havoc on performance but I see that as a very long and slow moving trend line with ups and downs. My strategy is more about short rest periods for recovery versus taking time off for something else. But I absolutely get elites doing as the please. Why not?

So the current Herme’s household ad hoc training plan continues. We are sooooooooooo scientific. On the way to Fiesta yesterday wife is reading from Facebook a post from Amber Neben. Amber is a female pro racer age 42 and current pro time trial WC and used to be my wife’s racing team coach.

Amber is posting about becoming permafit. That is doing the same thing over and over. Once one is permafit, one begins to get SLOWER. My wife says, she does not want to TTT again today and become permafit. Okay how about 3x10’ of 30on 30 off 5’ RBI with a sprinters warmup on lap one and the 5th lap of tempo.

After the warmup, we start together on set one of 30/30. She is pulling away from me and after a couple of minutes I see her up the road. If she puts a Fiesta lap into me on this workout, I will hate myself. I pick up the power - value of a training partner. We talked about power targets for the ride. I started out with what we agreed but she increased hers to pursuit power. She was feeling great. Girls will be girls or it is a woman’s prerogative to change her mind. Hard but fun workout and maybe permafit averted.

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Old 07-15-20, 09:27 AM
  #15104  
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I made a go to see how far "up" I could go in an hour. We have no mountains. We barely have hills. Lots of little short hills. You just can't only ascend for the hour, you have to make it back.

I made it 2700 ft doing the hill in front of my house 30 times. All splits were within 2 to 3 seconds each at 1:12. Power was worthless on the left-only meter that reads really low. One lap of 1:11 was like 235w average and another 270w. Zero wind.

It was 91 deg F outside, so power was down a bit. I'm pleased. Not bad I'd say. The math worked out that I was going up for 38min out of 60. So 22min spent going down, or putting my chain back on. It dropped 3x. It needs dropped into the wax pot, it's due.

I will admit to maybe 100 feet of that being "cheat" from gravity. It's a tight loop. Straight up to the stop light, u-turn, hang a left, go down, two rights. The first right is really tight but you do maintain some speed. I will accept the cheat simply because the hill is only 90 feet high. There's no doubt that with longer hills like 400 feet or so you benefit from the faster descent. This one, soon as you hit max speed you're on the brakes. Lots of bumps and pine cones also to avoid.
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Old 07-15-20, 09:42 AM
  #15105  
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You know, a 2.5-hour drive west and you can hit some decent climbs.
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Old 07-15-20, 10:04 AM
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I know, I know. I'm trying to build some "honey please" time to do so. I would usually wake up really early to drive out that way and do it. She just hates being woken up early no matter how quiet folks are. So can't do it really often. I'm trying to convince renting a cabin for a local vacation kind of deal. A cabin in the mountains where I can take both the road and cross bikes and ride each morning.
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Old 07-16-20, 08:21 AM
  #15107  
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started training for a CX season that'll probably never come, hopefully my club is still planning on their weekly training races which may scratch the itch. Anyhow I've started trainerroad's short power build HV, using FTP of 290, and on today's menu was a series of 15/15's at 88/125% and then 45mins @ 65%. Not bad, it wasn't pleasant, but I got through it so I'm happy, especially since I've bailed on similar stuff in the past when I was slightly overreaching with my targets.
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Old 07-16-20, 11:15 AM
  #15108  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I made a go to see how far "up" I could go in an hour. We have no mountains. We barely have hills. Lots of little short hills. You just can't only ascend for the hour, you have to make it back.

I made it 2700 ft doing the hill in front of my house 30 times. All splits were within 2 to 3 seconds each at 1:12. Power was worthless on the left-only meter that reads really low. One lap of 1:11 was like 235w average and another 270w. Zero wind.

It was 91 deg F outside, so power was down a bit. I'm pleased. Not bad I'd say. The math worked out that I was going up for 38min out of 60. So 22min spent going down, or putting my chain back on. It dropped 3x. It needs dropped into the wax pot, it's due.

I will admit to maybe 100 feet of that being "cheat" from gravity. It's a tight loop. Straight up to the stop light, u-turn, hang a left, go down, two rights. The first right is really tight but you do maintain some speed. I will accept the cheat simply because the hill is only 90 feet high. There's no doubt that with longer hills like 400 feet or so you benefit from the faster descent. This one, soon as you hit max speed you're on the brakes. Lots of bumps and pine cones also to avoid.
I can get to 2500 total feet in about 7 miles from my door. I usually take the mtb because part of it is dirt but road bikes work there, too.
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Old 07-16-20, 01:44 PM
  #15109  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Old guys are scared to detrain for fear that what is lost will not return. This theory is perpetuated in social media and by some coaches. Yes, age does seem to reek havoc on performance but I see that as a very long and slow moving trend line with ups and downs. My strategy is more about short rest periods for recovery versus taking time off for something else. But I absolutely get elites doing as the please. Why not?

So the current Herme’s household ad hoc training plan continues. We are sooooooooooo scientific. On the way to Fiesta yesterday wife is reading from Facebook a post from Amber Neben. Amber is a female pro racer age 42 and current pro time trial WC and used to be my wife’s racing team coach.

Amber is posting about becoming permafit. That is doing the same thing over and over. Once one is permafit, one begins to get SLOWER. My wife says, she does not want to TTT again today and become permafit. Okay how about 3x10’ of 30on 30 off 5’ RBI with a sprinters warmup on lap one and the 5th lap of tempo.

After the warmup, we start together on set one of 30/30. She is pulling away from me and after a couple of minutes I see her up the road. If she puts a Fiesta lap into me on this workout, I will hate myself. I pick up the power - value of a training partner. We talked about power targets for the ride. I started out with what we agreed but she increased hers to pursuit power. She was feeling great. Girls will be girls or it is a woman’s prerogative to change her mind. Hard but fun workout and maybe permafit averted.
Yeah I hear ya, I probably get unnecessarily anxious about it. It does feel good to sleep in for once and I will take a couple 3-7 day trips off the bike though. I'm around ~85 CTL now, and last year my minimum was in the first week of October at ~62 or so. I imagine this year it will be similar.

Typically it takes me a couple months (two blocks) to get mostly back, but last year after just 1 month I surprised myself with my performances by November. Could just be momentum from the previous season (2018 to 2019 lead in) where I kicked things up a notch and lost a little weight. I intend to keep that going so maybe I'll be even better next year, we'll see.

If all goes as planned we'll have kids by next summer so this may be the top for me . Unless I can hit some time-crunched motivated turbo trainer sessions and unleash some dad watts, which some of my teammates seem to have done.
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Old 07-16-20, 03:06 PM
  #15110  
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Fiesta hour of power.
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Old 07-17-20, 04:27 AM
  #15111  
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The northeast hill climb series is trying to put on a handful of races in September and October. Seems like folly to me. They're doing crits in PA and honestly I don't think the optics are very good. I haven't ridden Whiteface yet this season. And, for me, I'm pretty fat so that would be folly too I suppose. I'm hiking 4 days a week. Riding 2-3. I do an hour of yoga about 5 days a week. When the dust settles I usually end up with about 20-25 hours of exercise a week. So hard to say that I'm not in good shape. If I stopped with the nightly desserts I'd probably be pretty lean. I was going to spend yesterday's hike intentionally pondering if I'll race next year, and honestly forgot to think about it until dinner time. I'm wondering if that in and of itself might be a sign.
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Old 07-19-20, 01:46 PM
  #15112  
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Done with week 1 of short power build, went smoothly, although today's 5x15 ~90% was a bit grueling, only because it was 80 degrees and 70% humidity in my basement (it's upper 90's in the Boston area today). CTL is 88, 11 weeks until I peak lol
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Old 07-19-20, 03:38 PM
  #15113  
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First week back to real training slightly derailed by work emergency that had me up til 4am.

Still, got about 7 hours in. Skipped a weight session and a z2 session, moved my vo2max session to Friday from weds. But I threw in a couple of runs. 3 hours solo with no coffee stop yesterday. I was going to do an ftp test up alpe du zwift today but I underestimated how much power I lost and started too hard, so I turned it into intervals and called it a day. Weights tonight, hoping I can get some good sleep and focus on eating healthier. My weight is lower than I thought it would be with all the weight training, was back down to 148 after today's ride.

Really hoping the fitness starts coming back, I hate feeling this slow. My 3 minute vo2 efforts were around my old FTP and I still struggled. Blah.
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Old 07-19-20, 09:40 PM
  #15114  
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Rode for a few hours this morning w some of my non-racing buddies, ended up w 3 hrs. On my FG! Rode my Wabi Classic road fixed gear, 42/15, got some good hammering time in. I forgot how much of a good groove FG can be on the road. I think I may integrate it more into my base training for 2021 this time around, commuting and some long rides.
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Old 07-20-20, 10:17 AM
  #15115  
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70mi on Saturday. Left at 6:15 from the house. I was within 15mi of home late in the ride seeing poor souls headed out the other direction.

Never again dairy before one of those rides. Mistake.

Also, road bike power meter is now worthless. It thought it only took me 140w AP to almost go 20mph at 50 feet per mile on that ride. That's cute. About as useful as a paperweight now. The math on that ride for total elevation and distance would mean it is a 1% road grade. So, 145w to go 19.5mph up a 1% grade sounds.............suspect.
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Old 07-20-20, 03:58 PM
  #15116  
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16.5 last week. Saturday and Sunday were in the 90's but I was able to do back to back 5hr rides without much issue.

Question - I am bad at making sure I am fresh enough coming in to races and efforts. What signs do y'all look for coming into a goal - whether it be a hill climb, mass start race, itt, etc. What sort of sensations do you look for in your legs, general body feeling? How do you balance that against making sure you're not losing fitness?
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Old 07-20-20, 05:25 PM
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1) You're not losing fitness.
2) see 1
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Old 07-21-20, 07:53 AM
  #15118  
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TKP, in my experience, it varies - a lot.

I got a Whoop for Christmas, so I've been trying to use that to track my training and progress. There are days when it says I'm fully recovered, and I ride like crap, and vice versa - though generally, I tend to do really well when it says I'm recovered.

But that has zero connection to how my body feels. I can feel absolutely beat, legs heavy and sore, but have a high recovery score and end up with a solid workout. And there are days I feel absolutely great, have a surprisingly low recovery score, and can't hit my numbers to save my life.
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Old 07-21-20, 01:33 PM
  #15119  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
16.5 last week. Saturday and Sunday were in the 90's but I was able to do back to back 5hr rides without much issue.

Question - I am bad at making sure I am fresh enough coming in to races and efforts. What signs do y'all look for coming into a goal - whether it be a hill climb, mass start race, itt, etc. What sort of sensations do you look for in your legs, general body feeling? How do you balance that against making sure you're not losing fitness?
I look to be fully rested and fully primed, which kind of seems counterintuitive to a point, but isn't really that difficult. Being overrested and flat is absolutely horrendous mentally as you just physically feel like **** and question and second guess everything, even if your performance isn't all that bad.

But generally if I start pulling back overall volume back two to three weeks out and then hit it hard but with reduced volume in the week before, I'll feel really good. I always ensure I'm riding in the days leading up a race (rest days before a race do me in). Before PM races I'll also ride the morning with an effort or two (or even a short KOM). Not enough to take much out of you, but enough to keep muscle tension and blood plasma volume and whatever other physiological issues working as needed.

As mentioned, losing fitness is never really an issue provided you're not trying some 4-6 week taper or something.
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Old 07-21-20, 04:54 PM
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1 hr of zwifting this morning. This week I'm doing these ICP-MS webinars (Thermo) for work in the morning just as kind of a top-level refresher, they're not too technical. It's awesome to be billing my hours while at home on the trainer!

Tomorrow I think I might treat it was a warmup and join a Z race after. Hopefully I can find one that isn't stacked full of A+ riders with > 5.0 w/kg threshold numbers. Split out A+ already!!!!
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Old 07-21-20, 05:20 PM
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Fiesta TTT Tuesdays. I was a very nice morning with light winds for the first two laps and then the wind came. Averaged 21 mph for the 4 laps. Nothing exciting just some solid z2/z3 TT bike work.
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Old 07-22-20, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I made a go to see how far "up" I could go in an hour. We have no mountains. We barely have hills. Lots of little short hills. You just can't only ascend for the hour, you have to make it back.

I made it 2700 ft doing the hill in front of my house 30 times. All splits were within 2 to 3 seconds each at 1:12. Power was worthless on the left-only meter that reads really low. One lap of 1:11 was like 235w average and another 270w. Zero wind.

It was 91 deg F outside, so power was down a bit. I'm pleased. Not bad I'd say. The math worked out that I was going up for 38min out of 60. So 22min spent going down, or putting my chain back on. It dropped 3x. It needs dropped into the wax pot, it's due.

I will admit to maybe 100 feet of that being "cheat" from gravity. It's a tight loop. Straight up to the stop light, u-turn, hang a left, go down, two rights. The first right is really tight but you do maintain some speed. I will accept the cheat simply because the hill is only 90 feet high. There's no doubt that with longer hills like 400 feet or so you benefit from the faster descent. This one, soon as you hit max speed you're on the brakes. Lots of bumps and pine cones also to avoid.
Not too shabby. I was watching GCN the other day and they had a bit on people posting their Uphill Hour totals. If I remember right, two of the presenters were at 1100-1200 meters. There was a "Chris Phipps" who sent in a message that he'd done 1,000. If that's multiple time national champ Chris Phipps, I'm a little surprised he didn't go better.
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Old 07-22-20, 05:07 AM
  #15123  
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Originally Posted by wktmeow View Post
First week back to real training slightly derailed by work emergency that had me up til 4am.

Still, got about 7 hours in. Skipped a weight session and a z2 session, moved my vo2max session to Friday from weds. But I threw in a couple of runs. 3 hours solo with no coffee stop yesterday. I was going to do an ftp test up alpe du zwift today but I underestimated how much power I lost and started too hard, so I turned it into intervals and called it a day. Weights tonight, hoping I can get some good sleep and focus on eating healthier. My weight is lower than I thought it would be with all the weight training, was back down to 148 after today's ride.

Really hoping the fitness starts coming back, I hate feeling this slow. My 3 minute vo2 efforts were around my old FTP and I still struggled. Blah.
I think that right there is what will someday get me to permanently throw in the towel on racing. I love it now, but at some point I'll get that feeling, and instead of embarking on all the hard work to get back, I'll stop and realize I don't have to.
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Old 07-22-20, 07:45 AM
  #15124  
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Yesterday was 3 sets of 6x70sec @ 127% with 40sec rest between the intervals, and followed by z2 @ 65% to round out the 2hrs. This is quite doable, starts to get unpleasant for the last couple of intervals of each set but never at risk of blowing up. Today was just endurance with a couple of sprintish efforts and tomorrow will be the tougher one of 20/15 @ 125/88% for 4.5min
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Old 07-22-20, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Yep View Post
Not too shabby. I was watching GCN the other day and they had a bit on people posting their Uphill Hour totals. If I remember right, two of the presenters were at 1100-1200 meters. There was a "Chris Phipps" who sent in a message that he'd done 1,000. If that's multiple time national champ Chris Phipps, I'm a little surprised he didn't go better.
Chris routinely did over 4500 FPH in the Low Key Hill Climb races series during the time that I raced the series in NorCal. In fact, most of the better male climbers are above 1000 VAM or 3000 FPH.

The key to having a big VAM is a steeper constant grade climb but not too steep.

burnthesheep what is the protocol for your climbing?
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