Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Changes to increase speed

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Changes to increase speed

Old 08-05-20, 01:30 PM
  #51  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 39,207

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2311 Post(s)
Liked 1,090 Times in 574 Posts
I don't get this fascination with cadence. Seems like anyone who's done any training with a powermeter eventually realizes it might be mildly interesting but functionally unimportant.
caloso is offline  
Likes For caloso:
Old 08-05-20, 01:52 PM
  #52  
RChung
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked 219 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
And you have 17 posts. I have 3,408 posts. So, there's that.
Hey, we all once had 0 posts. @BoraxKid isn't wrong because he has 17 posts. He's wrong and he has 17 posts.
RChung is offline  
Likes For RChung:
Old 08-05-20, 02:06 PM
  #53  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,442
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1546 Post(s)
Liked 508 Times in 265 Posts
Cadence is important, but it's also something that people tend to figure out on their own. You can feel what your legs want to do.

The only common exception seems to be when cyclists convince themselves that bottoming out gearing on a climb isn't a performance issue. But that's also not a situation that a cadence meter will help with; the issue isn't that the person doesn't know that their cadence is low, it's that they don't acknowledge the power penalty. In other words, a power readout would be much more informative than a cadence readout.
HTupolev is online now  
Old 08-05-20, 02:29 PM
  #54  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 3,682

Bikes: Felt AR

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2141 Post(s)
Liked 782 Times in 394 Posts
Originally Posted by RChung View Post
Hey, we all once had 0 posts. @BoraxKid isn't wrong because he has 17 posts. He's wrong and he has 17 posts.
True, true.

Though that quip was more of a reference to his posting "tip". Always a fun tangent when brand new people give tips on posting to people who have clearly wasted...er...spent... lots of time posting.
rubiksoval is offline  
Likes For rubiksoval:
Old 08-05-20, 02:35 PM
  #55  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,074

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 122 Posts
Cadence is like bike weight- overvalued and overinvested because it's easier and cheaper to understand and measure than power or CdA. Yes, a lot of beginners would benefit from knowing they are not getting training improvements because they aren't recruiting their whole system enough when pedaling too slowly and coasting too much, or could benefit from not riding tanks on 2 wheels, but those aren't things that need more than some awareness to address.
surak is offline  
Old 08-05-20, 03:01 PM
  #56  
genejockey
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,215

Bikes: Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 602 Post(s)
Liked 740 Times in 393 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
I don't get this fascination with cadence. Seems like anyone who's done any training with a powermeter eventually realizes it might be mildly interesting but functionally unimportant.
I think it's useful for beginners, because spinning a faster cadence doesn't feel natural at first. Once you've adapted to spinning faster, yeah, obsessing over it is probably chasing phantoms.
genejockey is offline  
Old 08-05-20, 03:06 PM
  #57  
BoraxKid
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 355
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 99 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Disagreeing with you does not make his post useless.
ok boomer.
BoraxKid is offline  
Old 08-05-20, 03:11 PM
  #58  
BoraxKid
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 355
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 99 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by surak View Post
Cadence is like bike weight- overvalued and overinvested because it's easier and cheaper to understand and measure than power or CdA. Yes, a lot of beginners would benefit from knowing they are not getting training improvements because they aren't recruiting their whole system enough when pedaling too slowly and coasting too much, or could benefit from not riding tanks on 2 wheels, but those aren't things that need more than some awareness to address.
Well actually, power on the bike is a direct function of cadence and gearing; which is why I suggested using cadence as a proxy for power before investing the money into a power meter. Wow, it's like you didn't even read my post at all!
BoraxKid is offline  
Old 08-05-20, 03:12 PM
  #59  
genejockey
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,215

Bikes: Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 602 Post(s)
Liked 740 Times in 393 Posts
"Where do Mansplainers get their water? From a well, actually."
genejockey is offline  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 08-05-20, 03:15 PM
  #60  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,074

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 122 Posts
Originally Posted by BoraxKid View Post
Well actually, power on the bike is a direct function of cadence and gearing; which is why I suggested using cadence as a proxy for power before investing the money into a power meter. Wow, it's like you didn't even read my post at all!
How do you get power from cadence and gearing without slope, rolling resistance, CdA, air density, wind speed and direction, and draft effect? Am I responding to a real poster or the bot powered by Strava's power estimation algorithm?
surak is offline  
Likes For surak:
Old 08-05-20, 03:19 PM
  #61  
genejockey
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,215

Bikes: Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 602 Post(s)
Liked 740 Times in 393 Posts
Originally Posted by mercator View Post
I see all the talk about aero and training, but it seems to me that gearing must be near the top of the list in terms of what needs to be changed. From the OPs description, it sounds like a lot of riding is done in 40-11, or the highest possible gear. And he wants to go faster.

For a comparison, here is the OPs gearing compared to what I am running, and I don't consider myself all that fast. Also I'm old, but I use the 53-12 quite often and I don't think I could even pedal the OPs bike over 30 mph.
Yeah, I think we've wandered into the weeds a bit here. He needs bigger gears, but not necessarily more than, say, 48, because he lives where it's quite flat, and he'll never have a chance to spin out a 48x11 unless there's a hurricane blowing behind him - which, given he lives in Florida, is a distinct possibility.
genejockey is offline  
Old 08-05-20, 03:37 PM
  #62  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 3,682

Bikes: Felt AR

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2141 Post(s)
Liked 782 Times in 394 Posts
Originally Posted by BoraxKid View Post
Well actually, power on the bike is a direct function of cadence and gearing; which is why I suggested using cadence as a proxy for power before investing the money into a power meter. Wow, it's like you didn't even read my post at all!

This has to be someone's sock.
rubiksoval is offline  
Likes For rubiksoval:
Old 08-05-20, 03:41 PM
  #63  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,212

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 733 Post(s)
Liked 699 Times in 311 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post

This has to be someone's sock.
Very likely.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 08-05-20, 03:50 PM
  #64  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,212

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 733 Post(s)
Liked 699 Times in 311 Posts
Originally Posted by BoraxKid View Post
ok boomer.
I'm a boomer?
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 08-05-20, 05:46 PM
  #65  
BoraxKid
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 355
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 99 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by surak View Post
How do you get power from cadence and gearing without slope, rolling resistance, CdA, air density, wind speed and direction, and draft effect? Am I responding to a real poster or the bot powered by Strava's power estimation algorithm?
Easy: force applied at the pedals times cadence gives you the power output from the rider into the bike. Since OP is new to the sport, this will be an instructive thing to look at, and it's the only factor that OP will have constant control over, aside from perhaps some marginal effects on frontal area presented to the wind. Why are you being so obtuse about this? Perhaps you should lurk more.
BoraxKid is offline  
Old 08-05-20, 05:46 PM
  #66  
BoraxKid
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 355
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 99 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post

This has to be someone's sock.
I am a person. I am not a sock. Jerk.
BoraxKid is offline  
Old 08-05-20, 05:53 PM
  #67  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,074

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 122 Posts
Originally Posted by BoraxKid View Post
Easy: force applied at the pedals times cadence gives you the power output from the rider into the bike. Since OP is new to the sport, this will be an instructive thing to look at, and it's the only factor that OP will have constant control over, aside from perhaps some marginal effects on frontal area presented to the wind. Why are you being so obtuse about this? Perhaps you should lurk more.
I'm being obtuse? How do you magically calculate force with just a cadence sensor?

Folks, I think this is the Strava power estimator posting as an elaborate prank. The moment our worst timeline's version of Skynet gained self-awareness. Good thing that instead of terrorizing the human race, it will just go around giving us completely inaccurate power estimates on our rides!
surak is offline  
Likes For surak:
Old 08-05-20, 06:06 PM
  #68  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,442
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1546 Post(s)
Liked 508 Times in 265 Posts
Originally Posted by BoraxKid View Post
Easy: force applied at the pedals times cadence gives you the power output from the rider into the bike.
Right. And the devices that make accurate measurements of forces in bicycle drivetrains, for the purpose of calculating power, are power meters.
HTupolev is online now  
Old 08-05-20, 06:07 PM
  #69  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 30,648

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 338 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13594 Post(s)
Liked 2,871 Times in 1,537 Posts
Originally Posted by surak View Post
I'm being obtuse? How do you magically calculate force with just a cadence sensor?
Bathroom scale pedals, duh. Just don't corner aggressively.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 08-05-20, 08:33 PM
  #70  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,212

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 733 Post(s)
Liked 699 Times in 311 Posts
Originally Posted by surak View Post
I'm being obtuse? How do you magically calculate force with just a cadence sensor?
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Bathroom scale pedals, duh. Just don't corner aggressively.

Buy a couple of dog toys and cut out the "squeakers." Put one squeaker in each shoe. You can estimate the applied force from the sound made by the squeakers when you mash on the pedals. Calibrate with bathroom scales.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 08-05-20, 09:34 PM
  #71  
RChung
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked 219 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Buy a couple of dog toys and cut out the "squeakers." Put one squeaker in each shoe. You can estimate the applied force from the sound made by the squeakers when you mash on the pedals. Calibrate with bathroom scales.
Many years ago I lived next door to a woman who had toy dogs who barked all ****ing day. Cutting out their squeakers is a good idea but putting them in my shoes would have been messy.
RChung is offline  
Likes For RChung:
Old 08-05-20, 09:38 PM
  #72  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,212

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 733 Post(s)
Liked 699 Times in 311 Posts
Originally Posted by RChung View Post
Many years ago I lived next door to a woman who had toy dogs who barked all ****ing day. Cutting out their squeakers is a good idea but putting them in my shoes would have been messy.
Dog toys, not toy dogs. But ... I hear you.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 08-05-20, 09:52 PM
  #73  
woodcraft
Senior Member
 
woodcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 5,277
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1482 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 519 Times in 307 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Buy a couple of dog toys and cut out the "squeakers." Put one squeaker in each shoe. You can estimate the applied force from the sound made by the squeakers when you mash on the pedals. Calibrate with bathroom scales.

I had a bike with a BB creak that kicked in pretty reliably at 150w.
woodcraft is offline  
Old 08-05-20, 10:02 PM
  #74  
RChung
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked 219 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Dog toys, not toy dogs.
Oh. That's different.

Never mind.
RChung is offline  
Likes For RChung:
Old 08-06-20, 03:58 AM
  #75  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 3,682

Bikes: Felt AR

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2141 Post(s)
Liked 782 Times in 394 Posts
Originally Posted by BoraxKid View Post
I am a person. I am not a sock. Jerk.
Ah, new word, huh?

You're learning a lot today!
rubiksoval is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.