Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

ENVE releases their own tire

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

ENVE releases their own tire

Old 08-06-20, 09:02 PM
  #26  
sfrider 
Asleep at the bars
 
sfrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,557
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 82 Posts
Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
Does it bother anyone else that there is almost ZERO mention of anything related to grip in this gigantic press release, though? For all we know, it could have the grip of a soap bar in a shower.
Is that ever a limitation? I can't recall ever thinking to myself, "wow if only these tires had better grip!"
__________________
"This 7:48 cycling session burned 5933 calories. Speed up recovery by replacing them with a healthy snack." - Whoop

sfrider is offline  
Old 08-06-20, 10:18 PM
  #27  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,386
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12432 Post(s)
Liked 3,804 Times in 2,133 Posts
My 4.5 ARs were designed for 28 mm tires. I'm trying to figure out which size in these tires is best for my wheels. Obviously it's not a tan sidewall one, but that only narrows it down so much.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 08-07-20, 03:27 AM
  #28  
smashndash
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 993

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Liked 170 Times in 125 Posts
Originally Posted by sfrider View Post
Is that ever a limitation? I can't recall ever thinking to myself, "wow if only these tires had better grip!"
Yes. I’m frequently ride on the knife’s edge and recently crashed after switching from my race wheels (with vittoria corsas) to training wheels (beat up 4 year old turbo pros). I foolishly tried to think exactly like you - “the tires aren’t the limiter; I am”. It’s utter nonsense. I could feel the tires screaming at me and yet I chose to push.

“If only these tires had better grip” is all I think about when I’m trying to hold someone’s wheel going 50 down a mountain. How could you not?

I’m not saying everyone needs all the grip in the world. But if you’re riding with the kind of crowd where half a watt of aero or 3 watts of RR matters, chances are that grip matters too.
smashndash is offline  
Old 08-07-20, 05:07 AM
  #29  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 3,681

Bikes: Felt AR

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2138 Post(s)
Liked 780 Times in 393 Posts
Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
“If only these tires had better grip” is all I think about when I’m trying to hold someone’s wheel going 50 down a mountain. How could you not?

I’m not saying everyone needs all the grip in the world. But if you’re riding with the kind of crowd where half a watt of aero or 3 watts of RR matters, chances are that grip matters too.
I very much agree with this, and stopped riding both Shwalbe Pro Ones and Michelin Power Comps because they lacked the traction I got with Conti 4000s in the wet and dry, but I don't know how they'd ever qualify that into useful information for a consumer to use when making a purchase.
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 08-07-20, 06:24 AM
  #30  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 30,642

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 337 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13587 Post(s)
Liked 2,859 Times in 1,535 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
My 4.5 ARs were designed for 28 mm tires. I'm trying to figure out which size in these tires is best for my wheels. Obviously it's not a tan sidewall one, but that only narrows it down so much.
Did you see the chart? I mean, it does give you three "optimal" pairings, 27mm, 29mm, and 31mm, but at least it has the WAM specs (side note: it'll be great when more manufacturers provide WAM [width as mounted] and RAM [radius as mounted] specs); if you really want to, this would at least make it easy to go by the 105 rule (or whatever it is) -

WhyFi is online now  
Old 08-07-20, 06:35 AM
  #31  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,949

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 896 Post(s)
Liked 614 Times in 410 Posts
I might be wrong, but sometimes the tire/wheel pairing is meant to optimize the aero interface. That was the idea with Mavic and the tire/rim strip deal on the CXR. If that's the case, it would tend to cater more to TT/triathlon for pure aero and CRR versus grip needed for other racing. Again, I may be wrong. Grip does matter, but not sure how any company could quantify that.

Also, not to say they wouldn't work on other wheels............but LOTS of other aero wheel companies pick one or two really popular tires to design the wheel around. Like a GP4000 or GP5000. Going with these, unless someone tries it first with your exact wheels....you wouldn't know before buying how they'd match up.
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 08-07-20, 07:15 AM
  #32  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 30,642

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 337 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13587 Post(s)
Liked 2,859 Times in 1,535 Posts
Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Going with these, unless someone tries it first with your exact wheels....you wouldn't know before buying how they'd match up.
This is why the WAM/RAM specs should be pushed. Pirelli is doing it on their new tires and ENVE at least has the WAM; I hope that others follow suit. For now, Schwalbe has at least said that their new tires should measure out to their nominal with a 19mm int width rim, so it gives you a decent idea of a starting point, while Conti has been more vague, simply saying that they're sized with "modern width" rims in mind.
WhyFi is online now  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 08-07-20, 07:53 AM
  #33  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,949

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 896 Post(s)
Liked 614 Times in 410 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
This is why the WAM/RAM specs should be pushed. Pirelli is doing it on their new tires and ENVE at least has the WAM; I hope that others follow suit. For now, Schwalbe has at least said that their new tires should measure out to their nominal with a 19mm int width rim, so it gives you a decent idea of a starting point, while Conti has been more vague, simply saying that they're sized with "modern width" rims in mind.
Agreed. The bulging out and internal widths versus external at different pressures matters for some people. It's way too much to think about for most.......but when you're spending $1k for possibly ONE front wheel for time trial or triathlon.........you don't want to ruin the entire point of that purchase by purchasing a tire and size that doesn't work.

I think at slower speeds the gains in CRR of a larger tire on some aero wheels might work out fine. But the aero losses of the bigger tire bulging out at higher speeds far outweigh the CRR gain. That's why Enve and others are designing wider aero wheels now. Play both games at the same time.

One thing I'm surprised hasn't come back from Conti or others is the concept of the "attack/force" aero tires. Their CRR wasn't great, but they tested out pretty good in some tire/wheel aero tests I've come across. I would love for them to release an "aero" version of the GP5000 TL. Even if not branded as such.
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 08-08-20, 05:21 PM
  #34  
greatscott
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Indiana
Posts: 540

Bikes: 1984 Fuji Club, Suntour ARX; 2013 Lynskey Peloton, mostly 105 with Ultegra rear derailleur, Enve 2.0 fork; 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c, full Deore with TRP dual piston mech disk brakes

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 287 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
I look at this the same way I look at automotive tires. If you drive a Porsche 911 GT3RS, you have about 10 options for a rear tire, and the cheap one is ~$300. If you drive a Toyota Corolla, you have about 130 options, and they start at $39. In this analogy, the ENVE 3-point-whatevers are the Porsche.

Folks running the Mavic system seem to be pleased overall, despite being "limited" to a certain selection of tires.
Interesting idea, but how many Enve tires would it take to equal the width of one Porsche 911 GT3RS tire? Plus the Enve tires will last maybe 3,000 miles while the Porsche tires will last 30,000 miles, so now you have to apply the math of that and you'll be shocked to see that the bike tires will cost a great deal more than Porsche tires will over time.
greatscott is offline  
Likes For greatscott:
Old 08-08-20, 05:36 PM
  #35  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 8,463

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn, Lakitu

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4820 Post(s)
Liked 1,553 Times in 876 Posts
Absolutely unfair to blame the roadie tax on ENVE-- we don't even know how much their tires will cost yet (though I assume on par with a GP5000.) The "bike tire vs. car tire disparity" is a long running one, and every single manufacturer is guilty of it. In this case, I give ENVE a soft pass because they don't make automobile tires. I still have the screenshots from before the release of the Conti GP5000. Relative to the GP5000, the Extreme Contact is 8 times as wide, lasts 20 times as long, and costs about the same.


__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Likes For DrIsotope:
Old 08-08-20, 06:33 PM
  #36  
smashndash
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 993

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Liked 170 Times in 125 Posts
Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
Absolutely unfair to blame the roadie tax on ENVE-- we don't even know how much their tires will cost yet (though I assume on par with a GP5000.) The "bike tire vs. car tire disparity" is a long running one, and every single manufacturer is guilty of it. In this case, I give ENVE a soft pass because they don't make automobile tires. I still have the screenshots from before the release of the Conti GP5000. Relative to the GP5000, the Extreme Contact is 8 times as wide, lasts 20 times as long, and costs about the same.


This is true, but it’s also true that getting Enve product below RRP is extremely rare.
smashndash is offline  
Old 08-08-20, 06:40 PM
  #37  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 8,463

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn, Lakitu

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4820 Post(s)
Liked 1,553 Times in 876 Posts
Normal person's opinion, if you're fine with $2,500 for wheels, you probably don't flinch too hard at $90 tires. I spent like $700 for the wheels... on my car, which means there's four of 'em. And they were forged in Japan.

Further normal person's opinion, ENVE wheels are too expensive, their tires will be too expensive, pretty much everything in this life is too expensive. Except TVs. Those things are dirt cheap now.
__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Likes For DrIsotope:
Old 08-08-20, 06:48 PM
  #38  
sfrider 
Asleep at the bars
 
sfrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,557
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 82 Posts
Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
Normal person's opinion, if you're fine with $2,500 for wheels, you probably don't flinch too hard at $90 tires.
Well, I have ENVE SES wheels and would pay $90 if I had to. But I don't have to, so why would I? I'll just keep riding GP5000TL's or whatever seems competitive in the future.

And I just found GP5000TL 700x28 in stock (just received them today). $60 from Amain Cycling: https://www.amaincycling.com/contine...72580?v=871693
__________________
"This 7:48 cycling session burned 5933 calories. Speed up recovery by replacing them with a healthy snack." - Whoop

sfrider is offline  
Old 08-08-20, 07:19 PM
  #39  
aclinjury
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 358 Post(s)
Liked 101 Times in 76 Posts
Originally Posted by greatscott View Post
Interesting idea, but how many Enve tires would it take to equal the width of one Porsche 911 GT3RS tire? Plus the Enve tires will last maybe 3,000 miles while the Porsche tires will last 30,000 miles, so now you have to apply the math of that and you'll be shocked to see that the bike tires will cost a great deal more than Porsche tires will over time.
the GT3RS rear tires ain't gonna last 30k unless it's all easy boulevard miles!
aclinjury is offline  
Old 08-08-20, 07:20 PM
  #40  
sfrider 
Asleep at the bars
 
sfrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,557
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 82 Posts
Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
the GT3RS rear tires ain't gonna last 30k unless it's all easy boulevard miles!
How many Porsches out there ever get to see a track... 5%? 1%? 0.01%?
__________________
"This 7:48 cycling session burned 5933 calories. Speed up recovery by replacing them with a healthy snack." - Whoop

sfrider is offline  
Old 08-08-20, 07:21 PM
  #41  
Bah Humbug
runner
 
Bah Humbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 16,393

Bikes: S1, R2, P2

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6030 Post(s)
Liked 1,659 Times in 885 Posts
I have a (dentist, yes) friend who (before feeling the burning need to upgrade his 808s to 858s) said he would spend two grand on an Enve rear disc to match his 6 front for tri. Just so it would match, aesthetically. He'd totally pay $90 a pop for tires to be matchy-matchy. Or would have last year.
Bah Humbug is offline  
Old 08-08-20, 07:38 PM
  #42  
aclinjury
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 358 Post(s)
Liked 101 Times in 76 Posts
Originally Posted by sfrider View Post
How many Porsches out there ever get to see a track... 5%? 1%? 0.01%?
probably akin to the percentage of Hummers seeing dirt vs driveway pavement
Joking aside, I vaguely recall a collegue once told me his GT3RS rear tires only last about 10k, and he isn't tracking his car. I believe he had Michelin Pilot sport cup 2's.
aclinjury is offline  
Likes For aclinjury:
Old 08-09-20, 12:37 AM
  #43  
Princess_Allez
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
probably akin to the percentage of Hummers seeing dirt vs driveway pavement
Joking aside, I vaguely recall a collegue once told me his GT3RS rear tires only last about 10k, and he isn't tracking his car. I believe he had Michelin Pilot sport cup 2's.
high-performance tires will last <10k street driven miles
Princess_Allez is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.