Helderberg

The above photo is the current iteration of my bike. Here is what I have done to get to this point. After reading all of the posts about three times each and watching the videos linked and the others that turned up on Youtube I was overwhelmed with information. So I decided to do a complete reset and put the bike back to the way it rolled out the door and start from there. Put the 100 mm stem back on along with the pedals w/cages, Fabric saddle and went for a ride. What I found was that I felt better on the bike like this than with all of the stuff I had tried but it was still not right. Lowered the saddle height about a 1/4" and liked what it felt like. Dropped another 1/2 " and felt that was too far so split the difference and went back up 1/4. That feels good along with the setback on the seat rails. The reason for the return of the cage peddles is to get a foot placement that was repeatable. The stem was not agreeing with my big belly and lack of flexibility so I went for a 35* rise with about a 60mm length. Did around 30 miles over the last two days and it seems to be good. I also have adopted a more flat foot angle instead of toe down and that has greatly engaged the back of my thighs. I have an 80% muscle loss to the front of my right lower leg along with a 20% loss of that same legs thigh. I have run through the saddles I own and the stock one seems the best of the bunch. Before I do anything else I am going to drop some weight and continue to ride and see what happens. I think a shorter stem, 60mm with about a 6-7* rise in in my future but the best news is no more "crotch on fire." I think that was a direct result of the seat being lowered. I am also playing with the handlebar angle to get the best feel for my hands on the hoods. Arthritis is a bear in my left hand and today's ride convinced me it needs to be lowered a couple degrees from what is in the photo. Thanks for reading and if you have any remarks or added suggestions please feel free to speak up.
Frank.

shelbyfv

Here's a prior, similar thread https://www.bikeforums.net/fitting-y...re.html:thumb:

Helderberg

Yes, that was my first post. This is a follow up.
Thank you, Frank.

Iride01 

Just be careful of saddle height. To high is bad, but too low is bad too. When you start riding for several hours at a time and more frequently each week, be sure to revisit the saddle height anytime you think you need to adjust bar height or reach.

Maybe you were too high with the saddle and now it's correct. However I'm thinking you might be too low and don't feel the negative things about too low a saddle because your ride time isn't long enough yet to realize them.

What's the magic saddle height? I don't know, I've tried them all. I just don't want my leg to be fully extended, nor do I want to end the stroke with so much bend remaining that my thighs get shoved into my gut at the top of their stroke.

I'm not a follower of the one and done bike fits. To me a fit depends on how you ride the bike, with duration of ride, speed you ride at and how often you ride being factors to how things need to be adjusted at that point in time. As well, your own fitness level will alter how you need to be fit to the bike.

Helderberg

Thank for this. When I measure seat height I am using the seat post, tube, as my constant, run the ruler parallel to the tube but I am thinking that I should be using the center of the saddle as my reference point? If I move the saddle forward or backward the actual height to my BB has changed but the measurement to the seat, assuming it is a flat seat, will not be different correct?
Thanks again for your time and input, Frank.

GAtkins

Center of BB to center of saddle profile.

Glenn

headwind15

Since no one else has said it, I will; DUDE THAT FRAME IS WAY TOO BIG. I used to own bike shops for over 12 years an have sold hundreds of road bikes. Your frame is what is called a compact frame, and should have twice as much seat post sticking out of your frame. You know like a mountain bike. The reason that you have to put on such a short stem, is that the top tube is too long. OK now this has really nothing to do with CROTCH ON FIRE. I can say that at the bottom of the pedal stroke you should be able to drop your heel down. In other words if the seat height is preventing you from dropping the heels then your seat is too high. Good luck

Helderberg

This is what I have been afraid of but - - - I compared the frame spec's of the medium, that is my bike, to the same frame in small and the difference in seat tube height is 1.97 inches. If I went to a small frame the seat post would still only be extended only about 17/8" longer. The difference in the top tube is only 1.8 inch. The stock stem is 90mm, I had thought it was 100 but I was wrong, at 60 mm makes up most of the reach and the minimal difference in seat tube height is tough to push me enough to sell this bike for a small. My legs are short but my torso is long and arms are normal so the reach is not a problem. Having said that, I have tried to find this bike as a small but nothing within 30 miles has any in stock as I wanted to see what a small felt like. If I am looking from the wrong perspective and spec please feel free to educate me.
Frank.

headwind15

Compact frame design, but could have a higher rise stem if you want (so you're not bent over so much)

Helderberg

Thanks for this. I this bike in their current inventory? I can not find it in the on line catalog. Is it considered a road, gravel, etc? Thanks for taking the time to help me out.
Frank.

headwind15

Oh, I was not saying you should buy a Giant or what size or anything. (you never gave your height). I was just trying to give a visual on the frame size/ seat post extension on the Giant to give you a better idea of how a compact frame/ seat height is suppose to look like. Also after building (not sure if I mentioned that I build frames) compact style frames, why I may have sounded alarm bell(s) about your size.

phughes

If lowering the saddle helped the issue, the saddle was too high, as are most saddles, even after supposed "professional" fits. There has been a bad trend of overly high saddles over the past few years, causing all sorts of issues, and contrary to what many believe, it is better to have a saddle a little "too low," than too high.

Iride01 

I agree. I was just cautioning not to go too far in the other direction.

I think for me, as I lost weight, got fitter and went lower with the bars, the saddle height changed for me. Although it wasn't a big change, I actually increased the saddle height. From what I rode ten years ago to today, it probably was less than 2 cm of difference if that much.

phughes

Congrats on the weight loss! Yes, as you lose or gain weight, the fit can change. If you loose "padding" you seat height may need to go up. Good problem to have.

Road Fan

I also don't know if your seat is too high or too low, or what. There are a few standard methods for getting a starting position, from which you might adjust, preferably in small increments.

One is to sit on the saddle with your heel (in your riding shoes whatever they are). When the leg hangs, your heel should be just touching the pedal with the knee straight but relaxed. While your checking this the other leg is relaxed, so you need an assistant to help you sort out how to keep from falling. A bike trainer (for indoor pedaling at home) is one way, leaning carefull against a wall is another, and having a friend hold you is a third way.

Another is to make a measurement of your pubic bone height. This is like trouser inseam but done right is a more precise measurement of you skeletal bones. Look it up on the 'net, do it several times and take the biggest number. Multiply by 0.883 to get your generic saddle height. This measurement is from the center of the BB axis to the top of the saddle, measured along or in parallel with the seat tube, in a straight line.

Third method is very much like the second, but instead of multiplying by 0.883 you multiply by 1.09. Then you measure from the pedal axis when it is farthest from the saddle to the saddle top along the seat tube as before. For most pedal/crank sets the second and third are identical results.

With any of these three, if your saddle is too high, your hips will rock and rub the crotch in front of your butt (pelvic basin) on the saddle. This can cause really painful chafing, requiring several days off the bike to heal. No long term damage but it really hurts. If you feel this your saddle needs to come down something like ⅛ inch or maybe even less. It any case, lower the saddle in little increments once your skin heals.

If your saddle is too low, several things. First if you tend to mash the pedals down hard, you might find your foot feeling like you are trying to break off the pedal at the bottom of the stroke. This is a sign that your saddle is too low, and could result in knee pain. I'm not a doc and I don't know if its harmful, but I do know it hurts inside my knee, so I try to prevent it by scooching my saddle up a really small amount at a time. Second thing is, you might feel pain in your kneecap or right behind it, above it, or below it. These are all signs of too much force in a kneecap that is bent too much. For a cyclist you again have to raise the saddle a little bit at a time, but now so far you have chafing. I had this kneecap problem and went to see my doctor, who said to try easing up on the stress. I tried raising the saddle and pedaling faster in a lower gear. Knock on wood, no surgery or added pain for quite a while!

Not to be frightening, just trying to share what I've learned about setting saddle heights, some simple techniques, and why it's important.

Professional fitters have other methods and I can't say they are not good. I had a really good fitting once and it was better than I can do myself.

After I have these adjustments made, I look at whether I should adjust height based on having moved it forward or back. Eventually I do and it makes a positive improvement. I tend to leave that for on-ride adjustments after I've done the basic adjustment.

But you are correct in your question, to slide the saddle back increases the distance from the pedal bottom position to the actual point where the sitbone contacts the saddle. It is worth making this correction. For me it is more accurate if I adjust it based on riding results. You can use trigonometry to calculate an exact hypothetical leg length/saddle height triangle, but I don't think I know where on the saddle my sitbone contact point really is. I can see an area where it is, but to do it mathematically you need to identify a point. This is why my instructions include adjusting the saddle to reduce abrasion under the saddle after making a good measured saddle setting. That one won't be final for most people.

Helderberg

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I will be very careful to make any adjustments in small increments.

Frank.

trailangel

I don't think your frame is too large. Looks good to me. I'm not a fan of this trend toward smaller frames. Not everyone is training to race all cramped tight.... some want to enjoy the ride.
I would try lowering your bars to about the height of the saddle.
Keep working on it and riding.

unterhausen

That frame is perfectly fine, especially if you feel the need for the handlebars to be that high.