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15lb bike, 4000 miles (dont worry, not in one go)

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15lb bike, 4000 miles (dont worry, not in one go)

Old 02-15-11, 03:54 PM
  #26  
nun
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Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
I totaly agree with fietsbob.
However..
I have done some very light touring, and what I consider to be not so light touring but a heck of a lot lighter than most full loads. I use some bags that I made, cause I am broke and I could.

This is my spring fall lightish weight setup, with tent, pad and larger bag. Fourteen pounds of gearnot counting water. in the middle of summer I just take a hammock and a silk sheet, about ten pounds of gear. Just sandals, one set of off bike clothes(homemade for low weight and packing)and two sets of shorts. Wood stove, pot, soap, strait razor, spork, some tools/first aid, plastic rain covers, Rain jacket, two water bottles and a dromodary bag, tea bags, Stovetop stuffing/other light emergency food, thats about it. This setup above rides very well, despite its topheavy look. The bike is a mid eightys steel rig, with 40rear 36front spokes, and compared to your cinelli is a limo.

And even with me doing this, I think that there is a reason why some bikes are better for touring than others. I have toured on fixed for short distances, but on a bike with slack angles. the only way to get your bike to carry a load well would be to get a frame bag, or do like 10 wheels and just lash it into the diamond.

Here is a link to a crazy ultralight guy. http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.com/
Interesting setup. What are the bags? What tent, pad and sleeping bag are you using?
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Old 02-15-11, 04:45 PM
  #27  
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I dont know what I have to gain by trolling this forum, but your concerns are legitimate. I did post up a previous thread a year or two ago about a fixed tour from AK to Mexico. People asked the same question then. It never came to fruition due to an injury (Exercised induced pain in my legs fascial tissue), so I guess that doesnt back me up super well.

But I am a full time engineering student planning this trip on the side, so the details are not all entirely there yet. Like I said, my bike is currently being put together (just bought the wheelset on ebay and the frame just arrived at my shop today). I can try to get a photo of my mamiya next to my frame up soon. That would probably quell any question.

I will get a gear list up soon, the big three I have right now are:

-nemo gogo tent (light, packable, no poles)
-montbell super stretch down hugger #5 bag (not purchased yet, but thats my next big item)
-Thermarest neo air

Packed dimensions of both the down bag and the pad are about a nalgene each, the gogo is smaller at 5.5" with a 7.5" diameter.

I am kind of considering forgoing the impossibly light with a bit of a compromise for comfort by using two small lowriding front panniers.
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Old 02-15-11, 05:03 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
OP. I am all for touring on any bike. Have fun with it.

I concur with 10 wheels. Don't listen to people who can't comprehend running a 5 mile errand without full front and rear panniers. I wouldn't ride that bike that long, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't. There are no rules, really.

Do yourself a favor and check out bikepacking.net You will see lots of lightweight options and approaches. If you're seriously thinking 15 pounds for your load, I don't see why you couldn't pull it off with your sleep system (bag, pad, etc.) on the handlebars and a large saddle bag ( http://carouseldesignworks.com/ ) for tent, clothes, etc. If that isn't enough room, explore a DIY frame bag in addition to that setup or look into backpacks made for bicycling (bikepacking). I bought and Osprey which has been great for commuting 14+ miles a day. Others like a brand called Deutor.

Whatever your decision, please enjoy yourself and come back and post pics.
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Old 02-15-11, 05:08 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by gmacmt View Post
I dont know what I have to gain by trolling this forum, but your concerns are legitimate. I did post up a previous thread a year or two ago about a fixed tour from AK to Mexico. People asked the same question then. It never came to fruition due to an injury (Exercised induced pain in my legs fascial tissue), so I guess that doesnt back me up super well.

But I am a full time engineering student planning this trip on the side, so the details are not all entirely there yet. Like I said, my bike is currently being put together (just bought the wheelset on ebay and the frame just arrived at my shop today). I can try to get a photo of my mamiya next to my frame up soon. That would probably quell any question.

I will get a gear list up soon, the big three I have right now are:

-nemo gogo tent (light, packable, no poles)
-montbell super stretch down hugger #5 bag (not purchased yet, but thats my next big item)
-Thermarest neo air

Packed dimensions of both the down bag and the pad are about a nalgene each, the gogo is smaller at 5.5" with a 7.5" diameter.

I am kind of considering forgoing the impossibly light with a bit of a compromise for comfort by using two small lowriding front panniers.
Should have read your gear list.... I am eyeing the Nemo gogo myself and imagine that the straps on the stuff sack can allow you to mount it to the seat in a similar fashion to a saddle bag. I would then, as I recommended, put the pad+bag in one stuff sack and attach it to the handlebars. I then plan on putting clothes+food into my backpack and just rolling like that. If you get a pack made to properly distribute weight and wear it correctly, you don't get any pressure points on your back or shoulders. Especially with something like 10 pounds after you have already mounted your tent and sleep system to your bike.
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Old 02-15-11, 05:41 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by nun View Post
Interesting setup. What are the bags? What tent, pad and sleeping bag are you using?
They are home made out of a pretty sturdy taffeta and rubberized liner. fairly water resistant, but everything is in drybags as well. The tent is a Eureka Zeus II, cause I have weathered some serious storms in that model, and on a longer trip like the protection it offers more than a tarptent or non freestander. It is on the back. My pad is just an old ten years young thermarest, about a pound. It was military overrun, very thin but full length. It folds down pretty flat nowadays, and is in the back as well, spread out to hold the Swiss army wood stove, tools, Medical, and heavyer items. The Bag varies, I don't do down cause when its wet its wet, been there, never again. Right now, a north face wasatch, 40 degree bag, for fall/spring in a homemade compression bag. Sometimes just a cut down fleece, sometimes just a silk bag. Generaly have an emergency bivy/blanket as well. The tent and bag are fiveish pounds, and the hammock(byers?) and minimal tarp is one and 3/4 pound. If I take the hammock, the front bag straps double as tarp lashings.
I am more about bulk and simplicity than weight. Everything multitasks. Sometimes I am cold and wet, but always have hot tea. Don't get me wrong, this is just my high mileage rig. I have a few bikes with front and rear racks, and have been known to bring a fishing pole and chair.


{{I am kind of considering forgoing the impossibly light with a bit of a compromise for comfort by using two small lowriding front panniers.****
OP. Comfort is pretty important, helps you get on the thing the next day. Looked at the tent, that sounds neat, I might have to look into one myself. Also, check this guy out. www.gordontaylor.co.uk

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Old 02-15-11, 08:11 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by gmacmt View Post
I dont know what I have to gain by trolling this forum, but your concerns are legitimate.



I am kind of considering forgoing the impossibly light with a bit of a compromise for comfort by using two small lowriding front panniers.
I've never understood trolling either. OK sorry if I caused offense. You should get that list together, it's amazing how long it can become without "administration".

I'm not really a fan of putting all the weight up front, I'd look at the bike packing solutions of a saddlebag with a bagman support.
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Old 02-15-11, 08:31 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by gmacmt View Post
I dont know what I have to gain by trolling this forum, but your concerns are legitimate.



I am kind of considering forgoing the impossibly light with a bit of a compromise for comfort by using two small lowriding front panniers.
I've never understood trolling either. OK sorry if I caused offense. You should get that list together, it's amazing how long it can become without "administration".

That Gogo is interesting, but I think I'd be a bit uncomfortable in it. You might also look at the tents at http://www.tarptent.com. Some are lighter than the Gogo, but they do need a pole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n38trYmHBdk

I'm not really a fan of putting all the weight up front, I'd look at the bike packing solutions of a saddlebag with a bagman support.
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Old 02-15-11, 08:50 PM
  #33  
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Whatever... i guess if you want to eat your soup with a fork that is just the kinda person you are?

Godspeed on the mountain descents if your chain snaps.
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Old 02-15-11, 10:49 PM
  #34  
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This is intended to just to give you a hard time:

I told our son when he was racing cyclo cross on a singele speed that it was a little like playing a game of golf with just a nine iron-- sometime during the game (race) you might have the right tool for the job. His new cross bike actually has a rear deraileur!

Have fun, and go for it!
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Old 02-16-11, 12:04 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by gmacmt View Post
It never came to fruition due to an injury (Exercised induced pain in my legs fascial tissue), so I guess that doesnt back me up super well.
is this injury conducive to many hours riding a fixed gear over varied terrain?
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Old 02-16-11, 12:30 AM
  #36  
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Nice video of a bunch of fixie bikers. But how many had a load ?? 1 or 2 ?
Most of these dips didn't even carry a water bottle.
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Old 02-16-11, 12:33 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
Nice video of a bunch of fixie bikers. But how many had a load ?? 1 or 2 ?
Most of these dips didn't even carry a water bottle.
They had a support van it seems.
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Old 02-16-11, 12:47 AM
  #38  
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i think the problem here is more of hauling the load. have you been able to figure out how all that crap is going to fit on your bike?

you are just purchasing your camping gear, so i take it you haven't done much of this type of self supported living yet? You haven't even looked at your gear in a pile on your living room floor yet.

My honest advice: Get a bike that takes panniers, a rack. Set it up with fixed gear (and brakes!) if you think this is going to enhance your tour.

absolutely set on touring on a cinelli track bike lugging around a medium format camera? Good luck.

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Old 02-16-11, 01:44 AM
  #39  
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Walks on two wheels, thanks man. Solid info.

Nun, I lived out of a blackdiamond lightsabre bivy (very much like the nemo except lighter and with poles) for some time. I was fine in it. If I was any bigger than I am (5'9", 140#) I would be too big. I have JUST enough room to read inside. But you are absolutely right, it is not for everybody.

LeeG, I had something called exercise induced compartment syndrome. At the time I didnt know how it would affect my cycling, and thought I was going to have to get surgery. I have since discovered some alternative therapy, and bicycling is no problem. I have yet to tour on it, but I have ridden quite a few miles with no adverse effects.

Bekologist, I have actually done a bit of this before, and have a bike that fits panniers. You can see it in this thread actually. Even my fixed gear will take panniers. If you read through the thread you will see that. The reason for my purchasing new gear is because I finally have enough money saved up to purchase nice equipment. Previously I was utilizing used, heavy, and borrowed.

And to everyone concerned, there will be brakes on this bicycle. I am not entirely stupid... I think. I did sell my crosscheck frame to buy this cinelli, so that is evidence against my own intelligence.

To those of you helping, I appreciate the advice. This trip is going to be half sufferfest and half adventure. But where is the fun in riding standard roads on a bike like a surly long haul trucker with all the gear you ever need? That sounds boring, and that is not why I am riding my bike.

Regarding my camera, the more I think about it, the more I feel I should be carrying my old smaller SLR. But that is a decision I can make later.

As an anecdote, on my west coast tour I met a lot of people as I was riding north instead of south. One of the people I met was carrying four panniers and a bob trailer. In that trailer he had two fifths of whiskey, a full size (two burner) coleman camp stove and a BOX of condoms. Like more than forty, and for no real reason as he was traveling mostly alone. Not only that, but he was passing gas stations and stores to buy these items every day on his trip. Maybe seeing his misery on the hillclimbs is what makes me subconsciously turn into a weight weenie. And knowing that I am going to be traveling through an area filled with stores, I can always change my mind if something really doesn't work. If I was riding through Iran on the other hand, things may be different.

Last edited by gmacmt; 02-16-11 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 02-16-11, 01:58 AM
  #40  
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Sounds like your gear should fit without panniers. Barbag/framebag (easier to get at stuff for the day)/seat bag. Like the bike packer folks do.

Camera? Waist bag, or perhaps a chest harness with the weight offset by a mid/small camel back.
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Old 02-16-11, 02:01 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by electrik View Post
They had a support van it seems.
I imagine in japan you wouldnt even need that. There are so many services along the entire route you could likely credit card everything, maybe including water?
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Old 02-16-11, 07:30 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by gmacmt View Post
\

Nun, I lived out of a blackdiamond lightsabre bivy (very much like the nemo except lighter and with poles) for some time. I was fine in it. If I was any bigger than I am (5'9", 140#) I would be too big. I have JUST enough room to read inside. But you are absolutely right, it is not for everybody.
My main point is that some tarptents are lighter than your bivy. You can make a few compromises when trying to go lightweight, but not too many. With the Nemo the advantage I see is no pole, the compromises are that it's heavier than the alternatives and looks quite flimsy. Also single walled shelters are notorious for condensation so essential features are lots of ventilation and enough room so that your sleeping bag won't touch the shelter.

Your choice of bike is pushing you towards ultralight rather than lightweight and if you really want to go ultralight you can't compromising so don't bring things like SLRs etc.
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Old 02-16-11, 08:57 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by gmacmt View Post
Positron, the weight I listed, ~15lbs, was without including the weight of the bags. That is just the stuff that will go in them.
The mamiya is going to make it tricky. That is not calculated into my overall weight, so you are right, will likely be around 20 w/ lens and film.
I have a spreadsheet that I have been using to play around with various pack weights for a CC trip (no camp gear).
The lightest I can get so far for my gear (not including rack/bags) is about 9.5 lbs. No rain gear, no medium format camera, but probably a little more off the bike clothing/shoes, etc.

My bag/rack weight is about 3.7 lbs. A titanium rack would be a bit lighter at a lot more expense.

I point this out for a couple reasons. One is that the bag and rack is a weight hit. The only way around it that I can see is to forego panniers and use stuff sacks. Not sure how durable or user-friendly that would be on a long trip. Two is that your overall goal of 20 lbs for all your gear seems reasonable if you do everything you can to stay light.

Good luck with your trip. Glad I'm not riding your bike, though!
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Old 02-16-11, 09:06 AM
  #44  
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maybe a front basket mounted to the front axle and handlebars would do the trick, a Wald delivery basket. Medium format camera will fit fine.

I've done a fair bit of ultralite and quite lite touring, and finding a place to strap all the crap on a bike without racks is problematic. Get the largest Carradice and large handlebar bag and you'll be fine.

have fun!
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Old 02-16-11, 09:24 AM
  #45  
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the 7 is a nice camera isnt it, I was sorely tempted to get one at one pt, but alas, never did. As you know, if you take it, dont screw around with water protection, your shot rolls will not be happy (nor you) if the paper gets wet. God, when I think of the all the B+W 120 film I have developed over 20 years...
Some years ago a photog I know travelled in China with a 7, did his own scans on a Nikon scanner 8000 I think, and the show he did with the 3-4 ft wide prints were really really nice.

all the best with it, there are some really nice seat post bags outs there. Check out the poster Asana, he has used this stuff a lot too.

oh, and as you say, Im not sure I would take a rangefinder on a bike, ive shot with M bodies and even they can get out of whack and so if you do, you would want to be able to do the adjustment yourself. I never learned how to do it with Ms, but if I was doing something like you were doing, I would definitly get a tech to show you how to do it properly--can you imagine the feeling if after developing you see your focus is out********** Btw, what body are you thinking of taking instead, 35mm I presume? Ive worked in photo since 89 and while I havent shot film since the D100 ('02-03??) I been at it since the late 70s.

*you know, thinking about it, if you can safely and gently take the 7, the quality and more thoughtful approach to shooting would be worth it---I just wouldnt put it in a bike mounted bag-vibrations, i would be inclined to have it on my body, it would be treated to a lot less shaking etc. Id go with my instincts on that one, vibrations arent great for a real camera, and Ive seen screws come loose on Hasseblads etc, so I dunno....if it was me, id want to super protect it from vibrations....

good luck with your wacky bike project!
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Old 02-16-11, 10:23 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by gmacmt View Post
LeeG, I had something called exercise induced compartment syndrome. At the time I didnt know how it would affect my cycling, and thought I was going to have to get surgery. I have since discovered some alternative therapy, and bicycling is no problem. I have yet to tour on it, but I have ridden quite a few miles with no adverse effects.

.
good to hear, I was wondering if your syndrome developed from fixed gear riding and this trip was an attempt to prove you could win over it since riding 1000's of miles on a single speed is a decision you want to work harder than you would with gears.
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Old 02-16-11, 06:28 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by gmacmt View Post
I imagine in japan you wouldnt even need that. There are so many services along the entire route you could likely credit card everything, maybe including water?
Well, it looked like they were camping with quite a large tent. I'm not sure what it is like in the mountains of japan, percentage wise w.r.t. to populations Japan has a LOT of forested area... so despite many people living there they almost all live in the major cities.

also... at that man showing you his box of 40 condoms and giant whisky stash. wink wink... you must be cute!!
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Old 02-18-11, 10:17 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
oh, and as you say, Im not sure I would take a rangefinder on a bike, ive shot with M bodies and even they can get out of whack and so if you do, you would want to be able to do the adjustment yourself. I never learned how to do it with Ms, but if I was doing something like you were doing, I would definitly get a tech to show you how to do it properly--can you imagine the feeling if after developing you see your focus is out********** Btw, what body are you thinking of taking instead, 35mm I presume? Ive worked in photo since 89 and while I havent shot film since the D100 ('02-03??) I been at it since the late 70s.
I do think it would be worth it.

My go to film camera is my 1979 Canon A1. I absolutely love it. Tiny, sharp, fun to shoot with.



Ive got a digital kit, but it has no soul and is for sale. As good of image quality as the 5d is capable of, my heart isnt there. It is good when I am on an assignment as far as workflow and stuff, but it doesnt make me want to go take photos.

But yeah, to show everyone here I am actually ignorant enough to really be considering this, here is a supa doopa lofi camera phone pic of my frame and mamiya. Look at that geometry!




I am thinking hard about the carradice bag. Seems like a solid compromise between panniers and revelate baggage. Def bringing the camera in a pack that is on my body, and surrounded by clothes. Cant be a whole lot worse than just walking with it.

And electrik, I havent thought of it that way

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Old 02-18-11, 11:15 PM
  #49  
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gmac, glad to hear your response. Well, as you say, with the 7 surrounded by clothes or whatever in a fanny pack, or something, ya it wont be any worse than carrying it around. Youcan always improvise and do bubble wrap etc to reduce vibrations. As I said, the deliberate way of shooting is offset by limited shooting (even if you took 15-220s) but the image quality is so diff than 35, so much richer. I've done bike touring with a good pt and shoot with a good lens (fixed 35 or thereabouts) with b+w film. Its funny what you say about the 5D, Ive felt the same (to an extent) with my digi bodies, part of it cuz of the zooms, but I miss the purity of shooting with a fixed lens. Its better now that I use a fullframe (after years of using Nikon 1.5 factor stuff) but I still miss using a FM2 with a 35 and a 50 or 85. simple, yet a more focused way of "seeing" I find. Dont get me wrong, a digi body is just a tool, but its been too long since I used an easy to carry around body with 1 or 2 lenses, unobstrusive. Even my D700, while smaller than a D2X, is still a big hunk.

again, all the best with the bike stuff, I still think you're wacked for wanting to tour with this type of bike, but hey, if you stick with the idea, either you'll have a good time, or after go "what the heck was I thinking?"--but won't change the visual experience of shooting. All the best with that. To go back to the 7, ya I figure if you use common sense, transporting it will be no diff than when I schlepped my Nikon bodies with me everywhere I went in a small bag. And our human bodies are pretty good vibration absorbers.

cheers.
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Old 02-19-11, 10:19 AM
  #50  
Divtos
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Wow that guy is crazy!
"I do like to shower or wash at the end of the ride, but if there is no such possibility, it's no disaster: I know the sweat will dry out in an hour, leaving the dry, crisp layer of salt that I lick off and replenish the electrolytes that were lost."

Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
I totaly agree with fietsbob.
However..
I have done some very light touring, and what I consider to be not so light touring but a heck of a lot lighter than most full loads. I use some bags that I made, cause I am broke and I could.

This is my spring fall lightish weight setup, with tent, pad and larger bag. Fourteen pounds of gearnot counting water. in the middle of summer I just take a hammock and a silk sheet, about ten pounds of gear. Just sandals, one set of off bike clothes(homemade for low weight and packing)and two sets of shorts. Wood stove, pot, soap, strait razor, spork, some tools/first aid, plastic rain covers, Rain jacket, two water bottles and a dromodary bag, tea bags, Stovetop stuffing/other light emergency food, thats about it. This setup above rides very well, despite its topheavy look. The bike is a mid eightys steel rig, with 40rear 36front spokes, and compared to your cinelli is a limo.

And even with me doing this, I think that there is a reason why some bikes are better for touring than others. I have toured on fixed for short distances, but on a bike with slack angles. the only way to get your bike to carry a load well would be to get a frame bag, or do like 10 wheels and just lash it into the diamond.

Here is a link to a crazy ultralight guy. http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.com/
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