tandempower

There seems to be some controversy over electric scooters in SF. Are these scooters so great for going up and down hills that they beat bikes for convenience? My concern with using one would be depriving myself of exercise as part of transportation. I have seen similar scooters with step-levers like a step machine, but I haven't tried one yet. I've heard they are faster than biking. I can't imagine they would be very efficient for going up hills like those of SF. Maybe some combination of electric-assist and pedaling is possible?

https://qz.com/1289530/san-francisco...ndustry-legit/

linberl

The scooters can be pushed, they are just kick scooters, but generally people use the motor. Not for long distance travel, not for exercise. Point-to-point close distances where you either don't want to lock up a personal bike (theft is an issue) or you don't have one. Going from office to lunch or office to Bart station. Going down Market street is pretty much all flat, no hills, and that's where primarily are....the wharf/embarcadero to civic center to the mission. All flat. Currently however they are banned, until the providers comply with city new ordinances - they were getting dropped everywhere, impeding pedestrian traffic, etc.

tandempower

It sounds like a good idea, but why aren't people stowing them out of the way so they won't cause problems? Do they have pneumatic tires or those hard wheel-tires like skateboards?

linberl

...because people are stupid and lazy, lol. I'm sure it will get sorted eventually. Tires are pneumatic, they roll pretty comfortably. I suspect the City will make the providers responsible for keeping the scooters off pedestrian ways by fining them and confiscating the scooters; this will hopefully motivate the providers to figure out a way to make the user more responsible (maybe they have to text a picture of where they leave the device). And giving tickets to riders on sidewalks will also generate some money for the City so I'm sure they'll get busy with that as well. Takes time to get used to new stuff.

tyrion

San Francisco banned Segways from sidewalks and bikepaths...

tandempower

It seems the segway ban was at least partially the result of fears that people would get less exercise. Could this issue be similar with the scooters?

linberl

I don't think so. People in the Bay Area are generally pretty fit and you don't find anyone over 40ish riding those scooters, anyway. Share bikes are probably more often used by older folks than scooters. Most of the millennials riding scooters work in tech and either have on-site gyms or belong to crossfit, lol. I think the ban is purely related to safety of pedestrians and others and, once resolved on those counts, scooters will be back. Before the scooters, we saw LOTS of electric assist skateboards in the same general routes, but those are privately owned. SF is an area where lots of people are car-free because cars are a PAIN here; scooter-share, bike-share, and car-share companies are an ideal solution.

tandempower

So do these electric skateboards and scooters go as fast as a Segway (12mph)? Has the Segway ban since been lifted, btw, or is it still in effect?

linberl

Don't know about the Seqway; probably you can google that. They go up to 15mph (skateboards have a remote control).

Rollfast

Have you ever tried to operate one? And have you seen the slope of some of the hills in San Francisco? I was there in 1982 and I can still remember just how impractical this thing is there. Not to mention how jammed with people the tourist hotspots are.

Dahon.Steve

I've been using kick scooters for years (Xootr) and would love to try out those 1K electric scooters. Bike share will be electric in 5 or 10 years so we should start looking at EV vehicles as an alternative. I created a thread about kick scooters and its benefits years ago.

I would like to see a scooter share system like bike share with docking stations.

linberl

Bie share is moving towards the dockless style and scooters, too. It enables users to actually get all the way to and from their destinations. Docks are not always conveniently located near residential neighborhoods, and if folks can't use them within a block of so of their living space, then some will continue to drive cars as solo drivers.

fietsbob

The Google employees are the kinds of people using that stuff,

& renting 3k$ a month SF apartments.

linberl

I know that's what the media is putting out, and sure some of them do use them. But you are far more likely to see an office clerk, bank employee, or retail salesperson on one grabbing lunch, or a tourist, or a kid. But the fact is that the google/facebook/twitter employees pretty much all have electric skateboards that they personally own and don't need to use share models.

LanghamP

I've used the smaller Segways and other electric vehicles extensively in dense urban environments, on steep hills.

Segway has at least four consumer electric vehicles, of which I've ridden the mini Pro and the S1 (don't know about the others).

Mini Pro is just a tiny electric 2-wheeled scooter, top speed about 12 mph with a range of about 15 miles. The vehicle's width is smaller than even a small person's shoulders. Can be trolleyed. I'd say for most people, they can cover vast amounts of ground in a short amount of time, comparable to the fastest runner.

Segway S1. I own this one. Somewhat challenging to learn, incredibly useful for getting around. Some versions are 14 mph. Mine goes 12 mph. Impossibly small, think briefcase small and thick.

In regards to going up SF hills, and specifically SF hills, these two Segways go up them easily. You just fly up those hills, it is no problem at all for getting my 220 pound body up any hill. We are talking about 400 watts sustained power in a tiny 14 inch wheel, and way more than that peak power.

The consumer Segways (not the mall-cop behemoths) are hands-down the best way of getting around any urban city such as SF. Although you can rent the behemoth segways touring, I strongly urge the tiny mini Pro and the S1 due to their form factor.

I-Like-To-Bike

Got any pictures of yourself actually riding this wonderful device () in S.F.?

LanghamP

Here's mine but not me going up an extremely steep hill.


For some reason I've noticed older bicyclist loath electric unicycles while the younger crowd thinks it is so cool. It's like EUCs are old people filters; you can almost immediately tell if someone is old and cannot learn new skills by the sweeping contempt they have of new devices.

Are you old?

I-Like-To-Bike

You should try juggling bowling pins while riding, you would really impress "the younger crowd" performing that "skill".

LanghamP

I do.

I-Like-To-Bike

Sounds like the perfect transportation tool for BF-LCF brand "Critical Thinkers" looking to impress similar young (very young) "thinkers."

LanghamP

Oh absolutely, you got it exactly right.

I-Like-To-Bike

I presume they are priced correctly for Critical Thinkers in need of a device to "impress the younger set", and are therefore free for layabouts, vagabonds, and traveling minstrel wannabes who don't want to contribute to the wicked economic manipulations of the current transportation cabal.

LanghamP

They're pretty cheap. Want one?

I-Like-To-Bike

"Pretty Cheap" is not free. Critical thinkers expect their stuff to be available and free wherever they wander to and whenever they want it. "Cheap" is just a term used by the automotivist conspirators to subjugate the masses into working unnecessarily to pay too much for the stuff that should be made available to critical thinkers for free.

LanghamP

Regardless, do you find any electric type transport device to have some merit or value?

My argument is automobiles, even electrical ones, and their infrastructure have already greatly exceeded the carrying capacity of our planet, and I believe the auto culture to eventually turn into the Great Filter in the near future. Therefore anything that has less impact has value, even if others redicule it.