The scariest pass I have ever seen on video
07-14-18, 08:15 PM
#52
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To further clarify what I mean... for years I commuted into Sorrento Valley in north San Diego... to get to work, I rode the interstate freeway, with 70 MPH traffic. The shoulder was a marked and sanctioned bike lane.
I don't care how much debris, crud or whatnot was there... you did not leave that shoulder to "take a lane" in that traffic.
I don't care how much debris, crud or whatnot was there... you did not leave that shoulder to "take a lane" in that traffic.
07-14-18, 09:01 PM
#53
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Or using THE ONLY ROAD IN THE AREA. I know this is a difficult concept for some east coast folks... but there ARE areas in the west where the only road is a 70MPH farm road. Those tend to have shoulders... tractors, cyclists, horseback riders and the like are expected to use the shoulders.
So poor choice... or ONLY choice.
Far enough to the right, is on the shoulder... regardless of how poor YOU think it is.
Now I will readily admit that most of these places are sparsely populated, and thus don't tend to have much of a "rush hour." But all it takes is one indian casino, or one development to change that "sparce" situation... and counties tend to take a while to catch up to new traffic needs with road improvements.
I've seen it happen many times in San Diego county. (Most farm roads there are 55... but in contrast, in Texas, they can be 70MPH) I have also seen the county propose to add shoulders to alieviate such situations... only to have voters say no... and yes, road rage ensues.
Not muddling a thing... have seen the whole process with my own eyes.
So poor choice... or ONLY choice.
Far enough to the right, is on the shoulder... regardless of how poor YOU think it is.
Now I will readily admit that most of these places are sparsely populated, and thus don't tend to have much of a "rush hour." But all it takes is one indian casino, or one development to change that "sparce" situation... and counties tend to take a while to catch up to new traffic needs with road improvements.
I've seen it happen many times in San Diego county. (Most farm roads there are 55... but in contrast, in Texas, they can be 70MPH) I have also seen the county propose to add shoulders to alieviate such situations... only to have voters say no... and yes, road rage ensues.
Not muddling a thing... have seen the whole process with my own eyes.
What I'm saying is that you are either riding in the traffic lane or you aren't. If there is enough shoulder cars can possibly pass you without crossing into the incoming traffic lane, you aren't in the lane. If they can't, then you're "taking the lane", and there isn't anything you can do about that.
07-14-18, 09:35 PM
#54
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When did I say riding on the shoulder is poor?
What I'm saying is that you are either riding in the traffic lane or you aren't. If there is enough shoulder cars can possibly pass you without crossing into the incoming traffic lane, you aren't in the lane. If they can't, then you're "taking the lane", and there isn't anything you can do about that.
What I'm saying is that you are either riding in the traffic lane or you aren't. If there is enough shoulder cars can possibly pass you without crossing into the incoming traffic lane, you aren't in the lane. If they can't, then you're "taking the lane", and there isn't anything you can do about that.
Originally Posted by you stated
Also, be advised that some poorly maintained shoulders are strewn with debris and/or broken asphalt.
As ILTB says...
Take the lane on such a road? Not only idiotic, nonsensical and ridiculous, but suicidal too.
07-14-18, 10:11 PM
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So long as its sufficiently wide enough so that cars aren't tempted to "squeeze" you off the road. Better to take up some lane space than to put yourself in a dangerous situation like that. Also, be advised that some poorly maintained shoulders are strewn with debris and/or broken asphalt.
07-14-18, 10:19 PM
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07-14-18, 10:20 PM
#57
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I used to commute on the shoulder of I 80N (now designated as I-84) west from Hermiston OR. There was no alternative road to and from work, the shoulder was not marked or designated as any kind of bicycling facility but it was (and probably still is) quite legal and quite safe for bicycling. Take the lane on such a road? Not only idiotic, nonsensical and ridiculous, but suicidal too.
07-15-18, 05:24 PM
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Never any at bicycling speeds in the traffic lanes on any Interstate highway.
07-15-18, 05:28 PM
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Note, I said nothing about riding in a debris strewn shoulder on I-80N. That shoulder was clean as a whistle compared to the debris and glass strewn streets of Philadelphia that I rode daily as a youth in the 50's and 60's and to and from work in the 70's. Taking the lane on an Interstate or any high speed highway when a perfectly good ride-able shoulder is available is what I consider only for boneheaded zealots who don't have a brain in their heads. The presence of a pebble, pine cone, stick or piece of tire carcass does NOT make any road or shoulder unride-able or require bicyclists to take unsafe emergency evasive maneuvers.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-15-18 at 05:34 PM.
07-15-18, 06:40 PM
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Worse than interstates are rural high speed roads with wide clean shoulders and an occasional *gasp* driveway. You could ge lulled into complacency and get killed by a truck at those driveways.
-mr. bill
-mr. bill
07-15-18, 06:40 PM
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Note, I said nothing about riding in a debris strewn shoulder on I-80N. That shoulder was clean as a whistle compared to the debris and glass strewn streets of Philadelphia that I rode daily as a youth in the 50's and 60's and to and from work in the 70's. Taking the lane on an Interstate or any high speed highway when a perfectly good ride-able shoulder is available is what I consider only for boneheaded zealots who don't have a brain in their heads. The presence of a pebble, pine cone, stick or piece of tire carcass does NOT make any road or shoulder unride-able or require bicyclists to take unsafe emergency evasive maneuvers.
You just indicated that a bit of debris shouldn't really bother a rider. And I fully agree... in the circumstances we are discussing... ie, along high speed roads and freeways for instance.
Really, the only time I avoid shoulders is when doing so might cause confusion at the next intersection... not really an issue for the type of roads in this discussion.
07-16-18, 06:59 AM
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I disagree with any generic categorization of shoulders re cycling. Some are dirty; some are clean. Some terminate at intersections or awkwardly and without warning. Some are continuously perforated by busy driveways. I have a four-lane parkway on my commute, where the shoulder is about 3' wide and tempting to ride on. However, when I do, motorists appear to regard me as completely off the road and give me frequent 1.5' passes, despite the nice broad right lane. Paradoxically, when I ride just on the carriageway side of the fog line, I tend to get a lot more room. In contrast, I work out on roads where the shoulder is wider in spots and I'm happy enough to use it, especially up hills.
Another problem that I and others have with the concept of using the shoulder as a default is that the motoring public conflate anything delineated by paint with "bike lanes," regardless of whether they're two or twelve feet wide, and compound the error with the incorrect belief that cyclists have a legal obligation to use them. This can play out in dangerous misunderstandings on the road.
Another problem that I and others have with the concept of using the shoulder as a default is that the motoring public conflate anything delineated by paint with "bike lanes," regardless of whether they're two or twelve feet wide, and compound the error with the incorrect belief that cyclists have a legal obligation to use them. This can play out in dangerous misunderstandings on the road.
07-16-18, 07:15 AM
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I disagree with any generic categorization of shoulders re cycling. Some are dirty; some are clean. Some terminate at intersections or awkwardly and without warning. Some are continuously perforated by busy driveways. I have a four-lane parkway on my commute, where the shoulder is about 3' wide and tempting to ride on. However, when I do, motorists appear to regard me as completely off the road and give me frequent 1.5' passes, despite the nice broad right lane. Paradoxically, when I ride just on the carriageway side of the fog line, I tend to get a lot more room. In contrast, I work out on roads where the shoulder is wider in spots and I'm happy enough to use it, especially up hills.
Another problem that I and others have with the concept of using the shoulder as a default is that the motoring public conflate anything delineated by paint with "bike lanes," regardless of whether they're two or twelve feet wide, and compound the error with the incorrect belief that cyclists have a legal obligation to use them. This can play out in dangerous misunderstandings on the road.
Another problem that I and others have with the concept of using the shoulder as a default is that the motoring public conflate anything delineated by paint with "bike lanes," regardless of whether they're two or twelve feet wide, and compound the error with the incorrect belief that cyclists have a legal obligation to use them. This can play out in dangerous misunderstandings on the road.
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