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I would love input on commuting and light touring

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I would love input on commuting and light touring

Old 01-04-07, 05:04 AM
  #26  
gbrandt
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Originally Posted by MillCreek
I have been waiting for this thread. I would like an aluminum frame in traditional or compact geometry with flat bars, aheadset stem, rigid front fork, 700c wheels, a Shimano Nexus 8 speed red band (I would pay a premium for this), platform pedals, mechanical disk brakes, a built in dynamo front light, installed fenders, installed rear rack, medium tires with tread and a couple of water bottle braze-ons. My requirements here are very specific to being able to do a business commute in the rainy Seattle area. This is why I would like a bike to be as corrosion-proof as possible, require little modification out of the box to meet our rainy and dark weather, be able to carry a business suit onboard, and have mechanical disk brakes to maximize stopping power in our rainy weather.

I would easily pay $ 1000 and then some for a bicycle that meets these requirements.

PS: In terms of an off-the-shelf bike that would meet many of my requirements, the Ibex Corrida Ultimate comes close. But it does not have the Nexus, fenders, lights and racks that I would need.
Check out Breezer commuters. Everything you list I believe except the disc brakes...
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Old 01-04-07, 06:01 AM
  #27  
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I like this one I built around a mid-90's Raleigh M400 frame:



It has a steel fork, seat tube, seat stays, and chain stays. The top tube, down tube, and head tube are aluminum. Raleigh called it "Composite Technology". The combination gives a very smooth ride. I have an 11X34 8-speed cassette and a 28/38/48 crank. I love my Simplex friction bar-ends. The brake levers are Diacomp. The brakes are Alivio cantilever. The derailleurs are Deore LX. I like a quill stem because of its adjustability up and down to find the most comfortable position which for me is semi-upright.

I find this bike a lot more comfortable than my Giant Yukon with front suspension. Flat bars make my hands go numb within 3-4 miles. I can ride drop bars on the hoods all day with no problems. I am on the hoods 99.8 % of the time.

The 26" wheels allow me to use 1.25" slicks, 1.5" invert treads (as pictured), or studded snows as the weather and mood suits me.
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Old 01-04-07, 11:51 AM
  #28  
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Steel frame and NO suspension

Drop Bars

7 or 8 speed internal hub

V-Brakes or disc brakes

I would like to see a bike that comes with all the little extras you will need for commuting like: fenders, lights front and rear that are actually bright enough to ride at night with and see where you are going, rear rack, frame pump, etc. Whether this is all in an add-on kit or comes with the bike those things always cost a lot to buy seperately and would add value, in my mind, to the bike.
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Old 01-04-07, 12:25 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by gbrandt
Check out Breezer commuters. Everything you list I believe except the disc brakes...
Yes, I am familiar with the Breezers and was really interested to see the change in the Novara bike pictured above, with it now having disk brakes. The 2006 year did not.
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Old 01-04-07, 12:41 PM
  #30  
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I really like the Jamis Commuter series. Their "high-end" model, the 3.0, has an alu frame, Nexus drivetrain and fenders for less than $550!
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Old 01-04-07, 12:42 PM
  #31  
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I built up my bike very similar to Fender1's bike.
Steel frame-- Al is too soft for my tastes, and I like a traditional horizontal top tube.
Internal hub-- It's all about the internal hub for me. I.H.'s are a vastly superior drive train than derailers. Less wear and tear, easy to use, except for weight they are superior.
Horizontal dropouts-- A must
Fender clearance and proper eyelets
Handle bars-- To each their own but I have to be picky, a plate in my neck keeps me off if drop bars.

The next commuter I build up will be for my brother.
I'm going to start with a Raleigh One-Way and hang a Sturmey-Archer generator/drum brake front hub, and a 5 speed internal hub with a coaster brake on the rear. As a bonus I'm going to also build up a flip-flop hub for the winters.
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Old 01-04-07, 12:48 PM
  #32  
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That caught my attention as well. Having to wait 2-3 months for a breezer uptown in my size to arrive has given me a wandering eye. I think I'll wander down to REI and have a look...
-gb
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Old 01-04-07, 01:19 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by WillisB
I like this one I built around a mid-90's Raleigh M400 frame:



cut.
Very handsome bike!

I don't get why riding on the hoods would be better on your hands than flat bars. It seems like it's the same thing, isn't it?

This is a great thread, with lots of good inputs.

My only comment is that I disagree with the majority here who suggest 700 cc wheels. I have them on my hybrid, but have 26's on my Breezer. I was reluctant to switch, but glad I did. I quickly noticed that the 26's have better riding dynamics for city use (stop, go, turn). They feel more sporty and quicker, while my occasional rides with the hybrid feels bulky and clumbsy in comparison. I believe they are stronger, too. It's also nice to get the foot down more quickly. I'm not surprised to see 26's on new road bikes now at LBS's. I suggest you keep an open mind on this and try them out.

There are lots on suggestions on here I'd second, but two that resonate for me are the internal gear hub and the generator lights. Generator lights take little leg power and are low maintenance--you only have to replace bulbs once in a blue moon. Why pollute the world with more batteries when these things don't slow you down noticeably? When I have mine on, it takes me an extra minute on my 30 minute bike ride (with the same effort) and I don't have the dynamo hub kind--which wouldn't take any extra time at all. They are very nice.
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Old 01-04-07, 03:03 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by thdave
Very handsome bike!
I don't get why riding on the hoods would be better on your hands than flat bars. It seems like it's the same thing, isn't it?
No the hand position while riding on the hoods or in the drops is about 90 degrees from riding the top bar or a flat bar. For me this makes a world of difference. Thats why my bikes have moustache or bull horn bars. I may try a dropbar when I can get a taller stem and wider drop bars.
Battery lights are simple, light, fairly cheap and most importantly easy to move between bikes. However an integrated hub generator and light system on a commuter would be nice to eliminate the need to charge batteries.
Nothing wrong with 26" wheels but most drop bar bikes come with 700c and 26" road tires look too small on a 62cm frame.
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Old 01-04-07, 03:37 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by thdave
Very handsome bike!

I don't get why riding on the hoods would be better on your hands than flat bars. It seems like it's the same thing, isn't it?
CBBaron got it right.

Think of how you hold your hand when shaking hands or when your arms are hanging down at your sides. Now stick your hand out and turn it 90 degrees to the flat bar position. See the difference? The twist sets up your carpal tunnel for pressure damage. This is why typists get carpal tunnel syndrome. Ergonomic keyboards slope radically down from the middle to give a more relaxed wrist position.

If flat bars would angle down at about 30 degrees and angle back at the same time they would be far more comfortable.
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Old 01-05-07, 05:58 PM
  #36  
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Serve an unmet need

Many of the bikes described in this thread are available today, although not at the price point you are talking about. IMO it would be best to provide a bike that is not currently being offered. I have gone through various commuter bikes in my 15 years of commuting and the things that were hardest to find in a commuter are as follows:

Full fenders and wide tires
Small front rack and integrated front bag
British style saddle bag with support mechanism (e.g. Bagman support or Silver Loop)
Attachement points for standard lights on front fork/rack and on rear fender

Everything else should be chosen based upon cost and durability. I would go for a cheapo frame and nicer wheels that can be trued. Bars, seats and shifters are going to be things that are highly dependant on individual commuter and as long as standards are followed can be easily customized. I guess a basic model should not require much in the way of training so an internally geared hub or single chaing ring / rear derailleur setup will be best.
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Old 01-06-07, 10:25 AM
  #37  
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I'd like to add a slightly different (?) perspective, though echoing implicit thoughts above: for some, self included, my 'commuting' bike IS my primary (only, in my case) bike. It's my 'car'! I think this is more common in Europe than here (Can/US), hence the greater variety of high-spec 'commuters' available in Europe/UK. Example: Compare Cannondale's NA with its European or UK site, and note the subdivisions in 'Urban' bikes in Europe (here, a very restricted selection under 'Recreational' -- rest my case!). Given my needs and -yes -wants, something like the UK Cdale 'Bad Boy Ultra Rolhoff' would be virtually perfect. Expensive, but very well built/equipped. A steel alternative, Thorn's (St John Cycles) 'Raven' Rolhoff bikes. I know there might never be enough market for this kind of high-end, quick, multi-use 'sport-light touring-commuting-utility-light offroad with a tire change' kind of bike here, but I for one wish they were available here from stock -- would buy one in a heart beat!
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Old 01-06-07, 07:00 PM
  #38  
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I hate the lettering on bikes.
Get rid of it save yourself some money.

I don't want to advertise your product.
I don't want a sticker price hanging on the frame.
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Old 01-12-07, 01:08 PM
  #39  
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Trekking bikes are the best. Build it with Deore are something really strong. I wore out my Dawes bike in 3 years, and I friends have trashed Giants and Ridgebacks.
Something like the sonic cycles FORT build.
The Dawes Kalahari is a fine template
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Old 01-15-07, 04:54 PM
  #40  
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Personally, I love road bikes....but I don't like how they are missing rack/fender mounts, capacity for wider tires (700x29c w/fenders would be just dreamy), and other such things that used to be able to be found.

my preference for frame material is Aluminum, since there is no rust concerns. I also love my carbon fiber forks, but I also think it's pretty uncommon to have fender compatible CF forks.

As for price, keep it low....on par with the Motobecane Vent Noir at the most.

Anothe nice consideration would be if you could find some nice road-style platform pedals to sell as an option....something with tons of grip. Not everyone wants to ride clipless, or use toe clips.
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Old 01-15-07, 08:15 PM
  #41  
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Where's the fenders? Who wants to show up for work with a brown stripe up the back of his/her work clothes?

Some of us start or finish work in the dark, where's the lights? An easily detachable battery powered LED lamp up front (take it off to fix flats and lock/unlock it in the dark, or to keep the light from getting stolen) and an LED light in back will keep your customers alive so they can come back and buy more bikes from you.

A rack would be nice, carrying stuff in a backpack or messenger bag gets tiresome. A rack is also a good place to put the taillight.

Big, fat 26" slicks hold lots of air for a smooth ride, and you can get cheap replacements at *Mart if you're too broke to get good tires at a bike shop. Schrader valves are nice for airing up at gas stations, all though it's not that hard to stick adaptors on Presta valves and leave them there.

At the price point you propose, the bike should have a single chain ring and a wide range 7 or 8 speed cassette. If the bike has flat handlebars then thumb shifters with a friction shifting option are a great way to go. For drop bars, down-tube or bar-end mounted shifters are simpler and therefore more dependable than cheap brifters. For people in flat environments a 3 or 5 speed hub gear would be nice, and this would permit a fully enclosed chain. Fully enclosed chains need less lubrication and don't get your right pants leg greasy.

A peg for a full sized frame pump would be nice, unless you've found a tire that will never puncture .
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Old 01-15-07, 09:37 PM
  #42  
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Thanks for asking for opinions.

I'm a veteran 15 year, 3 season, 54 year old bike commuter and white collar professional in southern Ontario. I generally ride used bikes, in part because of high theft rates in Toronto, and in part because I'm a "retro" guy. Still, I would certainly consider a new, moderately priced bike if it fit my needs and wants.

What are my needs and wants?

I don't want to sweat on my way to work. That means I ride my road (tour) bike in hot weather, since it rolls more easily than my mountain bike. I need a rear rack, because backpacks make you sweat. I wish my lowest gear was equal to 20 gear inches, since I sometimes haul a lot and I have some modest hills to climb.

I need fenders.

I like a forward leaning position because it is efficient. I wouldn't want an upright or pedal forward position since you have to work harder and you would sweat more. However, I can see an upright, pedal forward or step through bike appealing to returning, older cyclists, who aren't comfortable starting right off swinging their leg over the bike, and sitting up high with their torso cranked forwards 45 degrees or more.

I don't want a compact frame, because at 220 lbs, I would worry about bending the long seatpost over a few years of riding. My 130 lb son bent the seatpost back on his cheap mountain bike, so I know it can happen.

I have a rear rack, but I would also like those eyelets halfway up the front fork, so I would have the option to conveniently add front racks.

I want reliability. As others have pointed out, flat tires are the most common bike failure, so really good tires would be great. I haven't had any problem with my derailleurs and rarely get chain oil on my pants so I don't think I would pay extra for hub gears and don't need a shaft drive bike. A chain guard, maybe. EDIT: of course if the hub gears weren't too expensive....

I also would like a two legged kick stand as long as it doesn't rattle. A one legged stand isn't stable enough for loading the bike. My bike seat is a bit worn from leaning it against my brick wall when I load up in the morning.

I prefer a steel frame - I believe it to be more durable and repairable than aluminum.

I ride a mountain bike with 2" tires in early spring and late fall because of potholes and the risk of ice. I want slicks for low rolling resistance, and I still want fenders and rack mounts.

I don't want suspension. It's unecessary and inefficient for commuting.

Regards

Last edited by cooker; 01-15-07 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 01-16-07, 12:00 AM
  #43  
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a mini front decked rack so i can pull off a layer real quick at a light and secure it on bungies, and also to hold the newspaper so I can read the headlines while stopped at the lights, and a coffee cup holder/ travel mug thingie.

and all the rest of the stuff the other posters posted about.

Oh, and name brand some of the accessories. it's real cool when Burley offered genuine Brooks saddles on some of their bikes. I'm not concerned about the saddles, but if you're going to put LED blinkies on a commuter bike, use name brand accessories- not top of the line, but good quality stuff- not your own brand or lame generic-badged stuff on there.

you add lights, add good lights. Add a computer to the OEM? spec out Cateye or some other reliable brand. The Trek 520 stock rack is a great example of a terribly lame rack. they should just put Blackburn racks on there, save a lot of people a lot of headache.
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Old 01-16-07, 05:53 AM
  #44  
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It has to be as tough as a DH/FR bike, it has to have the ride of high end steel, it has to have lights, fenders, racks and panniers, it has to be as light as a carbon racer and as aerodynamic as a lowracer recumbent, and it has to be priced like an x-mart junker without compromising the quality of any components.

Do you have anything that fits the above?
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Old 01-16-07, 12:03 PM
  #45  
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Seems to me whats needed is a frameset more suited to the commuters needs.
Must have room for fenders, built in tabs to simplfy removal and replacement a plus, should clear Nokian studded tires.
Frame should be made of highly corosion resistant material, paint or coatings will wear through or hide corosian. My first choice would be a stainless steel, can still be painted to hide its value if needed. Rear dropouts should be the old style horizontal type with derailer hanger. Frame geometry should be near touring specs with long chainstays. Rear rack should be intergral and provide support for rear fender, tabs for mounting lights a real plus. Wiring should be pre-run though the frame for lights front and rear and work for either dynamo or battery setups. Itegral MR16 headlight housing as part of the headtube. I like 700C wheels but the case can be made for 559/26, if everything else is done right either can be a good choice with all the wheel and tire options out there.
I'dd let the buyer spec such things as drive train, handlebars, shifters and seat/saddle. Some will be happy to transfer the gruppo from "old trusty" that finally broke its frame, others will want a turn key bike. I think you market segment is the commuter or car free person who is looking for a frame with a long reliable service life that supports the items that allow them to be at work on time and ready to go with no worrys about getting home again.
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Old 01-16-07, 12:44 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Rural Roadie
Seems to me whats needed is a frameset more suited to the commuters needs.
Must have room for fenders, built in tabs to simplfy removal and replacement a plus, should clear Nokian studded tires.
Frame should be made of highly corosion resistant material, paint or coatings will wear through or hide corosian. My first choice would be a stainless steel, can still be painted to hide its value if needed. Rear dropouts should be the old style horizontal type with derailer hanger. Frame geometry should be near touring specs with long chainstays. Rear rack should be intergral and provide support for rear fender, tabs for mounting lights a real plus. Wiring should be pre-run though the frame for lights front and rear and work for either dynamo or battery setups. Itegral MR16 headlight housing as part of the headtube. I like 700C wheels but the case can be made for 559/26, if everything else is done right either can be a good choice with all the wheel and tire options out there.
I'dd let the buyer spec such things as drive train, handlebars, shifters and seat/saddle. Some will be happy to transfer the gruppo from "old trusty" that finally broke its frame, others will want a turn key bike. I think you market segment is the commuter or car free person who is looking for a frame with a long reliable service life that supports the items that allow them to be at work on time and ready to go with no worrys about getting home again.
Hmmmm -- not an exact fit, but getting pretty close!! I've been drooling over this for a couple weeks now: (sorry, don't know how to do linky thingies!) go to peterwhitecycles > tout-terrain bikes (from Ger.) > Silkroad. Structurally integrated stainless rack (and stainless dropouts/brazeons), etc. etc. Very intriguing; either Rohlhoff specific or derailleur geared -- if the latter, looks like this could be built up either as a very light/quick commuter, or as a heavier duty commuter/light tourer -- any configuration, extremely functional.
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Old 01-16-07, 01:28 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by bikesdirect_com
I am very interested in commuting bikes. Of course, they take all forms. In England folding bikes with 20” wheels are popular. In Japan, the famous ‘shopping bike’ rules. Trekking style in France; Dutch type in --- well you get it.

But what do USA customers really like? We have several bikes that we sell to commuters; and I will post those below so that members can criticize them; I can learn a lot from what people do not like about our current bikes.

....


I think most U.S. commuters would choose a road-style bike, (slim tires, gears, etc), or maybe hybrids. Personally, I ride a converted Miyata fixed gear (14x44).

One note about the Mercier bike pictured above: I've seen that brand on eBay before, and almost bought one. That is before I found out that they're bascially knock-offs of an old French brand. The new Merciers (and Motobecane's) are fakes, essentially. Nice components, but cheap frames with pretty stickers on 'em. I'm sure they're decent rides, but I don't like the fake-factor. On eBay they're advertised as 'Lance Armstrong's first bike' and whatnot, but it isn't the same brand!!

Yes, I know Bianchi's aren't made in Italy anymore, but... just my $0.02
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Old 01-16-07, 10:10 PM
  #48  
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Take a look at the Diamondback TRANSPORTER, with a little better componetry and some other add ons conducive to commuting.

dang bike is a rigid, 26" steel bike and has one heck of a price point!
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Old 01-17-07, 07:45 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by badger1
Hmmmm -- not an exact fit, but getting pretty close!! I've been drooling over this for a couple weeks now: (sorry, don't know how to do linky thingies!) go to peterwhitecycles > tout-terrain bikes (from Ger.) > Silkroad. Structurally integrated stainless rack (and stainless dropouts/brazeons), etc. etc. Very intriguing; either Rohlhoff specific or derailleur geared -- if the latter, looks like this could be built up either as a very light/quick commuter, or as a heavier duty commuter/light tourer -- any configuration, extremely functional.
Wow! That is my dream commuter bike and I share your drools. Don't know why you'd need two water bottles, though...

I'm assuming that that is the most expensive utility bike made, at just under $5,000. That said, I'm sure it's a nice touring bike as well.
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Old 01-17-07, 08:52 AM
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I agree re. the cost -- though, PW is (as he says) quoting those prices for a 'dream spec' build. Still, $$$ even as frameset. However, I think it all depends, as always! This kind of thing is admittedly going to appeal to a small target market -- but we're out there! E.G. moi: a) only want/have room for only one bike b) I prefer 26" wheel/tire for 'all around' use c) prefer discs d) never going to race e) accumulate most of my yearly distance commuting + occasional longer rides/short tours (v. lightly loaded) f) don't need to worry about security (I'm lucky enough to be able to wheel my bike straight into my office at work) and g) I'm willing to pay a bit to get what, for me, is the 'ideal' set-up. These kinds of bikes seem much more common in Europe -- again, Thorn in U.K. comes immediately to mind.
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