Lively or Not

This has probably been covered in a thread somewhere, but my searches have pulled up a lot that's beyond the scope of my particular scenario, so apologies in advance for not having found my answers elsewhere....

I love traveling back roads (old pavement and gravel) in the USA's "mid-section" - the midwest and/or the NE edges of the southwest (KS, MO, OK, NE). These roads go through the smallest of small towns. Often there are no hotels or public campgrounds/parks within a day's ride of wherever I am. For overnights, this leaves asking landowners for permission or looking for the rare stealth camping that seems viable and is not behind a farmer's barbed wire or other fencing.

I hope to bike tour one of these states from end-to-end on gravel/dirt roads, bypassing all or nearly all the cities and the largest of the towns. Better still, I'd like to take 10 days and wander these back roads with no specific route (but knowing where the towns are to resupply when I must).

Has anyone engaged in this sort of route-less (rootless?), intensely rural bike touring in this part of the United States where towns and parkland are hard to find and private property is nearly everywhere? What overnight options did you use, and how comfortable were you with the uncertainty of having to scrounge up a place to camp?

Note I am well familiar with the legal and mechanical aspects of stealth camping; I've stealth camped when I was highly confident in my selected location, but not toured with stealth camping as a real night-after-night possibility. The input I'm looking for is about people's actual experiences in a situation similar to mine.

Eggman84

In the Midwest, farmers don't put up barbed wire or any fencing for that matter in this day and age. Only if they have livestock that they are trying to keep in (which few grain farmers have anymore). Fences are just an unnecessary cost and maintenance headache. So unless it says no trespassing, you can pretty much stealth camp most everywhere in farm country. My biggest concern is finding water, though I carry a filter so I can treat most any water. That or wash up and cook at a potable water source and then move down the road a few miles to camp.

Yes I have done route less rides in Michigan and Wisconsin. These states publish on the internet excellent county (Wisconsin) or regional (Michigan) road maps that I used. The Kansas DOT has excellent maps for each county that show not only all roads, but facilities including parks, water courses, and other information.
List is at Kansas Department of Transportation: County Maps

Did not check other states but search "State Name County Maps" and see what pops up. When using county maps, you have to decide on a general route, then print out the maps you will want/need (or when riding have access to the internet and be ready to squint a lot). I think you will find that there are a lot more places you can camp in the Midwest than you think, they just don't come with picnic tables, potable water, flush toilets, and showers.

jamawani 

Do it all the time - lots of miles in Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas.
One place to camp is where there a section line correction on intersecting dirt roads.
There will be a zig in the road - usually with a triangle of unfarmed land.
It Kansas it is legal to overnight on public right-of-way. Not sure elsewhere.
But the two farmers who pass by in the early morning will not be bothered.

Also, the smaller the town - the more likely they will let you camp in the little town park.

bbbean 

Stealth camping = trespassing. Don't do it. Trespassing is a great way to get to meet local law enforcement, paranoid gun owners, suspicious rednecks, angry landowners, and other folks you'd just as soon not meet in the middle of the night.

As someone who lives on a farm in rural MO, I can tell you that I'm not favorably disposed to trespassers, but I pretty freely grant permission when asked.

It's not THAT hard to get some idea of where you'll end the day and make arrangements, or to simply start asking at farm shops, churches, or even gas stations in late afternoon.

I did a lot of the type of tours you're talking about in the 1980s. I never had a problem finding someone who'd let me pitch a tent in their yard or field when I asked politely, and was typically offered a meal or use of a shower. It was also a great way to meet the locals, and getting to know more about the country you're traveling through is part of touring, isn't it?

BB

indyfabz

In MN, one need not post in fence in several types of agricultural land:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=97b.001

bbbean 

A simple rule in any state. Ask yourself these questions:

1) Does this land belong to me?

2) Is there a sign saying "make yourself at home"?

If the answer to these two questions is no, then you need permission. Ask.

BB

BigAura

Two other questions:

1) Is the property stolen?

2) Was is it taken by adverse possession?

BTW: I'm not advocating harming or damaging anyone's property. Fair use of unimproved land is reasonable, IMO.

boomhauer

This is easy camping. You need to smile at people and talk awhile with people.
The smallest of the small towns usually has some sort of park, or something that used to be a park.
The best opportunities (for me) have been county parks in this region. They are often not on a state map but I've spotted a few of them on Google.
Any public body of water has some camping or stealth camping after dark at the trail head of any small hiking area they might have.
I've usually had great experience with asking law enforcement when I see them at the convenience store.

Unplanned camping in this area is easy. I never sweat the details anymore. Just start looking around at 5 - 8 pm and talk to people. Something always pops up.

boomhauer

Not sure where you're getting this idea from.

Eggman84

You do realize the majority of the midwest is about growing grain, especially corn and soybeans. Do you think farmers are worried about people breaking into their fields to steal these commodities or the corn and beans escaping. I lived in Indiana for years, and still have friends who own farms.

But if you want to believe that the midwest is under lock and key, then don't let me stop you from living in your self constrained world.

jonc123

You don't really know what your talking about. I've got 50 years in the midwest. You do realize the majority of the midwest is about making meth, stealing crap to make it and getting as high as you can on said product. I really don't think you have any idea about what it's like to live in an area like Southeast Missouri, with some of the poorest counties in the nation. The remaining good people in these areas watch over what they have; they work hard for what they do. Just as bad in the Ozarks.

People ride around at night and look for steel. They steal it and sell it for scrap. They steal anything that's not bolted down. Hit the scrap mart, then hit the meth pipe. Farmers are hip to all of this, they keep a closer eye on things than you think. Some of them get great enjoyment catching these folks in the act. Let me tell you, lots of the farmers eat meth too these days. It's everywhere.

Sharpshin

Unfortunately that was exactly my impression crossing Arkansas/Missouri/Illinois/Ohio three years ago. Besides the locals that I saw, the crime sections in the local papers were eye-opening.

For my own part I stayed with people only five times on that 33 day TX-NY trip, and three of these were prior friends.

My own rule for stealth camping was "no trespassing", towards that end I did not cross fences and where there were no fences I went on the assumption that farmers would plant to their property line. I would ride until dark, find a roadside location out of passing headlights, lay down the bike in a way the reflectors wouldn't shine and quickly throw up my quarter dome tent with a minimum of light. I'd be out just as fast at first light.

A bit spartan for some I know.

NE Arkansas/SE Missouri were the places I notes the most apparent meth heads. Delaware OH was full of heroine addicts openly dealing downtown. Tragic.

jonc123

You just gotta be careful. I cringe when people say stuff like, "Stealth camp at cemeteries, little out of the way parks in the country...etc." I know first hand what goes on at these little out of the way places late at night. Just a place to go get high and party. Well, not all the time, but if you pick the right night and Bubba wants to do a few bumps...not the place I want to be. Everyone has a firearm handy, the dope heads and the good people. The situation is tense, more than you know.

As others have mentioned, put on a smile and talk to people. The average farmer that I know would be real impressed with someone traveling across the country on a bicycle. If they give you a weird look, just tell them you hate paying taxes on fuel. You'll have plenty to talk aboout at that point! Just ask. The people that live there know what's going on. They know the score.

As far as this "fence" thing goes, fence is a rare thing at least where I travel in Iowa, Arkansas and Missouri unless livestock is involved. Fencing is $$$ and hard to maintain. I don't see it around fields unless livestock forage the stubble.

Eggman84

Sorry your right I don't know what I am talking about. Didn't know south Missouri represented all of the midwest.
Also, thank god I did not, nor do my friends continue to live in an area like that in Indiana (which is also the Midwest for you geographically impaired people). Thank you. I will warn all my friends to avoid Missouri and the Ozarks. And I especially feel sorry for you if that is the opinion you have a whole section of the US. I will make sure I check with the ACA and have them reroute all their routs away from such a criminal area.

Enough said.

jonc123

Thanks, you'll save me some work.

boomhauer

Way to scare the OP off of his intended tour. I’ve toured since 1987 with two cross country trips and plenty in the area of discussion ( I live in the center of Kansas City, which has about 100 times the probability of running into trouble). . None of thie encounters you speak of had ever happened to me.
Bottom line .... I feel 100 times safer touring than I do at home.
This discussion has taken a turn for the worst.

jonc123

I reread the OP's first post. I tried to answer it to my best ability having lived here for 50 years. Not trying to scare anyone. If I didn't care, I would have never posted.

jefnvk

Find state/federal land, or ask permission. It is that simple. It generally isn't hard to figure out who owns what land in rural midwest, look for the only farmhouse on that 160 acres. In Michigan, most state and federal land is open to wild camping freely.

No, farm land in midwest Michigan does not have fences, but then again farm land is a horribly visible place to camp and likely to draw annoyance from damaged crops. People generally don't take kindly to finding strangers on their wooded land, because at best you are a slightly dishonest bike tourist for not asking permission in the first place, at worst a homeless bum or druggie. Yes, most private wooded land is visibly posted around me. Yes, cooking meth in the woods is a problem, the DNR around here posts warning posters at rest areas and in gas station on things to look for to know if you've stumbled on such a location.

saddlesores

dear squeezebox,

in future please ensure that your sockpuppets
post according to forum guidelines.

thanks.

Happy Feet

Good catch. Let's find out.
Post reported.

Lively or Not

Thanks for the feedback, everybody. I've not been scared off, just busy doing things out in the non-electronic world.

To all those emphasizing the value of not stealth camping in illegal ways, I concur. To those sharing personal experiences in situations like mine, thank you, thank you, thank you! It's good to read of your positive experiences touring rural America without a planned route between established campgrounds or towns.

djb

jonc and sharp, good lord you paint a pretty depressing picture, "the whole midwest" etc. As a Canadian who has never traveled in these parts of the States, it makes me wonder are you guys full of malarky or over exaggerating to a great deal , or is this an accurate portrayal of just certain areas.

in any case, a real crappy sounding situation, even if only with grains of truth.

jonc123

I'm sure some places are worse than others. I really don't know about the "whole" midwest, but according to sharp and one other poster in this thread it's a problem elsewhere. I really don't have any reason to make this stuff up or scare anyone. I guess sometimes the truth hurts. If the problem was pot instead of meth, everything would be fine. Meth is a much different animal.

djb

Big topic, with lots of "why's" I'm sure, and bigger than I'd want to start discussing typing with strangers. All I can say is that around here in the area of Canada I'm in, there certainly isn't such dire similar situations, well I guess that's a bit naive, drug problems exist, but it seems that what you guys are bringing up is particularly yucky and with pretty serious social implications.

Sharpshin

"Only grains of truth" OK, for qualifications on recognizing the drug scene my only transportation until age 37 was whatever motorcycle I owned at the time, so I've hung around a lot with the biker crowd. For the last thirty years I have taught in a big-city school on the wrong side of town. Two murder suspects arrested on campus during that time and a fleeing felon shot and killed on campus but that was during a school holiday so the kids weren't affected. I live in that neighborhood, the guys across the street from me sell drugs off of their front lawn off and on, a guy next door used to until after the drive-by shooting when the owners of the house kicked 'em out, a nice family lives there now.

All of the above not for melodrama, but just to point out that I do have some personal experience in recognizing the drug scene and druggies.

Before starting on that trip, my biggest fear was Little Rock, because it was the only large city I HAD to ride through, I had to do so to cross the White River, turns out I was in early (from Malvern) and through the whole city by dark, and then onwards to NE Arkansas. A good friend who lives in that area and whom I stayed with warned me to be careful.

I was shocked by the degree of rural poverty evident in some areas. In one small town outside a convenience store a biker woman, early thirties, once pretty but looking aged by meth warned me to be clear of town by dark on account of the Cops, OK so consider the source. Every morning I my big meal was breakfast, I'd come to a diner and read the local paper cover to cover. The crime reports were a constant litany of methamphetamine-related crimes. The same was true all the way through Southern Illinois.

The first of two places on this trip I really felt personally uneasy was in SE Missouri. Originally I had been planning to cross into Illinois at Cairo, but was warned off that route by a group of Harley riders I had met way back outside of Hope, Arkansas. We had all stopped at the same abandoned house to shelter from a passing thunderstorm and they told me the Cairo area was pretty grim, extremely economically depressed and advised a different route.

So instead I aimed for the bridge at Cape Girardeau hence my excursion into Missouri. Another severe thunderstorm late afternoon had me stop at a roadside bar in a rural area, a former biker bar. I say "former" because the owner, skinny, shirtless and somewhat hyperactive was complaining bitterly that the local Sheriff had recently pulled his liquor license because someone had been cooking meth on his property without his knowledge. We sat and talked for quite a while, maybe two hours because a major front was passing through. Fortunately the rain quit maybe 45 minutes before dark and I was able to politely decline his offer to stay. He was tweaking, and I felt uneasy in his company.

Fifteen minutes later, riding through the next little town, it was a Friday (??) night and a bunch of the locals were sitting at a sidewalk barbeque and beer establishment. By "locals" I mean middle aged couples sitting and drinking. I was informed that no, there was no place to camp around there and no, there were no hotels or motels anywhere close. Fortunately there was a wildlife management area maybe ten miles down the road and I rode there in the dark and set up out of sight for the night.

Next time the drug scene was that blatant was in downtown Delaware OH, in a pleasant looking old downtown maybe twenty miles north of Columbus. I had put in a 96 mile day in eight hours the day before (tailwind) coming east from Greenville, slept out off the highway just outside of town the night before and was thinking to hang out in a downtown coffee shop for most of the day, catch up on posting photos, and then camp that night at a state park not far out of town.

This stuff can take hours and there I was for maybe four hours. During that time a skinny young kid (White, everyone in these accounts is White) sat at my table, ostensibly making conversation about my trip but obviously distracted. He was a junkie in search of his next fix. He went off after a while but returned with a companion, both of them ostensibly pleasant but distracted, obviously looking to find if there were any way I was going to somehow finance their next fix. As the day went on more young people showed up, a guy out front leaning against the wall would occasionally walk to the curb, meet a vehicle, lean in the window and a brief transaction, exactly as happens on my street. Bear in mind this was in a nice-looking downtown, I have no idea where the Cops were or why they tolerated this.

I think what finally did it was when an agitated young man resembling my own nephew walked in and announced to some of his friends there that he had just been released from the local jail, he was clean-cut and shoulda been a fine young man like my nephew but he was an addict. A little while later one of his friends handed him some money (this was all right in front of me at the next table), the guy thanked his friend profusely and literally RAN out the front door and off down the street, plainly in a hurry to go buy something.

As I was leaving the lady behind the counter apologized and said things had gotten real bad lately. I just wanted to get clear of there, I rode out of town twenty-fives miles to a small state park at Mt Gilead for the rest of the day and that night; no wifi, no showers, but back in America as I knew it. The young folks behind the counter at the local Dollar Store said yep, Delaware was a notorious drug center.

Bear in mind all this is in the context of a 33-day trip, I was not assaulted nor was I a victim of any crime. I do not know if the good people in Delaware have since taken back their downtown. My mom is eighty five and still works full-time as a nurses' aide in a hospital in rural New York State, according to her we are in the midst of a full-blown rural meth/opioid/heroin/fenatyl epidemic the likes of which she has never seen.

All of this FYI, you are free of course to form your own opinion as to my veracity.

Mike