cpstwoart

So I am looking to finish my crit bike with some light, stiff, robust, responsive, and reliable 11s wheels. I don't feel like crashing my Boyds after seeing way too many broken and taco'd carbon wheels. If that happened to my wheels I would be a very sad boy(d). I've been keeping an eye out for some good deals on a set of used Mavic Ksyrium Elites, SL's, and RS's, or some Boyd Altamonts, but I know that there is more out there. Anyone have any suggestions? I've got some Turbo Cottons looking for a mate.

rubiksoval

I wouldn't buy and then race on cheap wheels because I'm afraid of crashing them.

If you want race wheels, get race wheels.

I'd race the Boyds, personally.

cpstwoart

I still plan to on road races. But I don't need them in crits. I'd keep them as pit wheels, but I will keep them mainly on my TCR. I got a crit bike so that I wouldn't be scared to go down. I spent a lot of time in crits being safer because I can't afford to replace that bike and it's not just going to dent, and those wheels which I also can't afford to replace, aren't going to survive a big wreck. Looking at my data I wasted a lot of energy being too safe. I've got a TCR SLR with aluminum bars, Ultegra mechanical, and all I need are wheels for it. There are plenty of aluminum race wheels. Domestic pro teams still race crits on aluminum wheels. Rally races on aluminum wheels. I still want race wheels, I just want aluminum ones.

cpstwoart

Also, keep in mind that I only managed to upgrade once and only have half of the points I need to get to CAT 3. Additionally I race collegiate B. I didn't crash at all in CAT 5 and 4 by the grace of god, but everyone crashes at some point and I surely will do plenty of that. Haha.

hack

well ... alloy wheels or not, i'd hope you still plan on racing safe. not sure those wheels are a license to race unsafe. also, how does your data show safe vs unsafe?

cpstwoart

Oh, I will always race aware. I see people taking stupid risks all the time. I don't want to take dumb risks. I just want to be able to race with greater tenacity. My data shows that I am slowing down too much into corners and having to put too much power coming out of them. I noticed this and tried to make note of what was going on and why I was doing it. It turns out it's because I'm scared of wrecking my bike and I am riding overly cautious.

Doge

Shimano Ultegra

carpediemracing 

If you're in school you should be able to make time (and have a place) to do front wheel contact drills. I was fortunate enough to do them for a semester (until the field/grass we were using iced over, maybe 10 weeks?), twice a week, 1.5-2 hours each time.

That'll help make you much more comfortable in a field.

As far as being cautious, it's good to be cautious but don't save your equipment to the point of not being able to use it. If you have one set of wheels already (assuming Boyds are for races/special-rides) then you already have your safety wheels. Throw some decent tires on them and you're set.

For me the best crit wheels are generally taller more aero wheels. I spend most of my time racing at the back of the field, move up for the finale. Once speeds climb I find that aero wheels help me stay under the "trouble cusp" which is about 190-200w avg for a crit. Also they're worth at least 1-2 mph in a sustained sprint and each mph is 1.5 feet every second. If I can out-speed others by 2 mph for 10 seconds that's 30 feet gained.

When it's raining heavily and I'm somewhat resigned to a high chance of falling I'll revert to my alum training wheels, but otherwise I'm running full commitment every race.

Also practice bike throws. It would stink to lose a place or two because you didn't throw your bike, and bike throws are talent/training-free, meaning all you have to do is practice them. You could practice them in a dorm hallway even. Didn't think of it but you could probably do front wheel touching drills in a hallway also. Also practice cornering and pack riding skills (front wheel touch as well as side-to-side bumping). Free speed/efficiency.

furiousferret

Check eBay for Flo 60s. Triathletes buy them, use them for an Ironman and sell them for half the cost.

aaronmcd

Flo 60s aren't good if you'll be racing in the rain. They collect water like crazy. I have finished races on those with a pound of water sloshing around in each wheel.

chaadster

How much do you weigh?

If you’re looking at Altamont and Ksyrium SL, anyway, you should look at American Classic Argent. Lighter than either Altamont or KSL, and deeper than KSL, Argent strikes a sweetspot between features of both of those and brings a few tricks of its own to the table.

They’re great wheels; I crit mine, and I’m at the rider weight max, but they are solid, reactive and durable. I have two sets, because they’re a killer performer and a great value.

topflightpro

I've broken more things in RR crashes than crit crashes.

carpediemracing 

On a side note, the Ksyriums with aluminum spokes are about the worst wheel for aero you can possibly buy, tied only with other aluminum spoke wheels. I'd argue that the Ksyriums would actually be better road race wheels due to being non-aero (and therefore pretty stable on fast descents), but of course the non-aero would work against you on any high speed (50+ mph) descent.

A long time friend, co-promoter, etc, had two sets of Campy Eurus wheels, the ones with the thin steel spokes and the ones with the wider aluminum spokes similar to the Ksyriums. Hated the aluminum spoke wheels even though on paper they're supposed to be better. He's stronger than me overall, he can do 250w for a couple hours which is an absolute pipe dream for me. He is lighter than me, by about 30 lbs, and he isn't as much a sprinter as me.

If you really want a cheap set of wheels just buy an outdated set of aero tubulars. For example I lent a teammate my Reynolds DV46 wheels, complete with tires, for a few years because on the market they're not worth much at all, maybe $400 max. My perceived value on the wheels is $250, meaning that's what I think they're worth. You can find similar deals on other older carbon wheels. I know I bought a Stinger 4 front wheel from a fellow forum member for some good price, can't remember, but it was like $300 or something.

I wouldn't buy an alum rim carbon faired wheel, they tend to be heavy for their aero. I have a set of (2010) Jet 6/9 F/R clinchers and I find the wheels virtually impossible to use in the local Tues Night crit. Too heavy, almost 3 lbs heavier than my (2012) Stinger 7/9 F/R tubular set up (with tires and similar cassettes). Although aero the Jets' weight is just too much. I prefer to use the non-aero (2010) Bastognes (aka Ardennes, 18/24H F/R) clinchers, not aero but at least I can get going out of turns without going too deep into the red. I spent a lot of money on the Jet 6/9 because I assumed that aero>weight and I figured I'd race them for training. In practice the wheels are unusable in a race for me. I'd love to say that, yes, aero > weight, but there's a limit to the weight. In my case I made a $1600? mistake on that set of wheels.

Keep in mind I'm a low wattage rider (160-190w for an hour crit), not aerobically gifted, I can ride in a pack, and I rely on my sprint for my places. If you're a TT kind of rider, can go 30 mph for eons, then weight is not as much a factor. The Bike Tech Review guy is such a rider, very strong (former Cat 1 - his brother was a low level pro I think), and he found that wheel weight didn't affect him as much and in fact with a heavier wheelset he used less power (he put water in his tubes, equipment remained the same). He's also a much stronger rider than I am, he relies less on surging to close gaps, and he can actually do 300+w for a while. So your mileage may vary.

jsk

I was thinking the same thing. I see more crashes in RR's than crits, and they seem to be worse as well.

cpstwoart

In CAT 3, 4, 5 I have seen more crashes in crits mostly because of inexperienced riders who can't handle bumping. I dream of the day that I get to race against people who have better bike handling and I don't have to worry about them going down in front of me in corners just because the guy next to them barely tapped them. I've seen some bad crashes in road races, but if I break equipment in a RR it will most likely be my own fault, and I would be less sad about that. Haha.

cpstwoart

Right now I am 166 lbs, but my race weight is around 156-158.

furiousferret

Don't hold you're breath. The lower categories are filled with KOM chasers, zwift racers, and solo adventurers. No one is showing up to race clinics, group rides are getting smaller, and teams are smaller. It seems like there are more racers that show up with little to no group experience and I don't see that changing.

I haven't been in this sport long, but there's been a definite shift in the past 5 years. Maybe its just my little part of the world but its noticeable.

cpstwoart

Thanks for the input, man! I'm totally comfortable with bumping and all that. I just see lots of people who aren't and I want to be able to react in time when they go down in front of me into corners. I try to stay near the front for now, but I can't always get there without making unnecessarily risky moves.

So what kind of depth would you say is reasonably aero. Are we talking about 30mm or should I be looking more towards 44mm? At the 50-60mm point wheels seem to get pretty expensive. At 30mm they seem to be super reasonably priced.

I'll be far more comfortable racing in crits on my 60mm Boyds once I get into CAT 2, which I am hoping to do this season. I've worked really hard on my fitness and the guys at Purdue all think I can do it.

Bike throws are something I for sure need to work on. Wheel touching is fine for me. We have a guy who raced in UCI races in Australia who helped me a little with that (it wasn't on purpose, lol). I spent about a decade as a bike commuter in a city riding a fixie 60 miles a day in Buffalo, NY even in the harshest of winters until finally I was taken out by a van (needed back surgery on that one, and it was definitely unavoidable and the driver's fault). I'm pretty confident in my awareness and handling. But throws aren't something you did racing to intersections before the lights turned red. Haha.

cpstwoart

I could definitely see that being the case. Here in the midwest we are a little late to catching onto national trends. Luckily we still have a strong domestic scene, although I do also notice a little bit of the trends you are talking about. It helps that we have schools like Marion, Lindenwood, and Lindsey-Wilson in our region so there are plenty of young guys on scholarships for cycling and who are also on domestic teams. I don't know anything about teams out west, but I know out here in the midwest and in the Carolinas there are plenty of teams.

mattm

crashes happen in every cat, for “good” and “bad” reasons.

at this point I suggest you frame those boyds and hang ‘em on a wall!

DJH8098

Racing Zero - Road Bike Wheels

I like these, personally. I used to work at a shop and we sold a ton of the Zero and the Three version of Fulcrums and they are well priced. There were a few people that used them as everyday training wheels as well as crit wheels so these should be a good bet for what you are looking for. They are also super easy to get at your LBS so brownie points if they sponsor your team!

TexMac

You can never plan when to crash. I did 30 races, Crits and road with no crash and broke my collarbone in a training ride
I've used Enves 6.7, Williams 60 & Rovals 60, Chinese Yeoleo 50. Not sure why but the Rovals clx 60m feels fastest

rubiksoval

Yep. Some of my worse wrecks were in road races.

rubiksoval

Yeah, good luck with that. Last lap of elite crit nationals a guy just fell over in front of me for no apparent reason. It happens at every category, from cat 5s to cat 1s to pros.

rubiksoval

I didn't say anything about racing or not racing al wheels. Though I'm pretty sure Rally races on Hed Stingers (pretty sure Huff was at Gateway this year), but besides the point. I raced al wheels up until this year, myself. There are some excellent aluminum wheels, of course, but they're at a premium to the wheels you're discussing.

Someone mentioned carbon tubulars on Ebay. Some absolutely killer deals on there. I go through them daily. So many sub $500, sub 1500 gram, aero carbon tubulars with tires. Some clinchers as well, but they're generally more expensive.

I just think you're way too hung up on crashing and attempting to mitigate it. You simply can't. As has been said repeatedly, crashes happen in every race, in every category. Racing wheels in a road race but not in a crit until you're a cat 2 because you think you're more likely to crash is a bit silly and is not based on anything realistic. At some point it's going to happen and you may or may not have a single bit of control over it. I raced for the last four years without a single crash, and then had two different ones in two straight weekends when people just fell over in front of me. Nothing to be done.