Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Motobecane Whipshot Ti

Old 11-11-18, 11:42 PM
  #51  
OBMD
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I'm looking closely at this model and wonder if you did weigh the finished product? Also now that you have ridden it could you comment on the balance and handling?

I'm currently riding a Kestrel Talon Tri bike and would like something more comfortable and stable for commuting but hopefully not sacrificing too much in weight and performance.Previous bikes Trek carbon tube road bike 1200?, 1980s Ironman road bike, 1970s hand made HURLEY Reynolds 531, personalized lugs, campy record

touring bike- still the sweetest ride I've ever had. Stolen when I was in med school, alas. Thanks
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Old 11-15-18, 03:30 PM
  #52  
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Black Friday teaser deals, Whipshot Ti $1948 ends 11/15 midnight!
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Old 11-21-18, 01:19 AM
  #53  
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I bought one myself!! for 1948 and I posted pics of it on another thread under the cyclocross and gravel racing thread. Built it up. Uploaded photos. Best purchase ever. Seriously. It's like a free bike. Well atleast as close to cost as it gets. No tax. GTFOH
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Old 11-24-18, 01:14 AM
  #54  
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I did the same, just got the bike built up (almost). missing the 16point bottom bracket tool to tighten the front disk rotor properly, will need to bring into LBS tomorrow.
BTW, Cann't find your post yet, what size your purchased and how tall are you?

I got 53cm and it's just 19.6 lbs, it's amazing for a gravel bike.

Originally Posted by Bicycho415 View Post
I bought one myself!! for 1948 and I posted pics of it on another thread under the cyclocross and gravel racing thread. Built it up. Uploaded photos. Best purchase ever. Seriously. It's like a free bike. Well atleast as close to cost as it gets. No tax. GTFOH
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Old 11-25-18, 07:24 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
I've read some reviews on BD stuff on Bicycling lately, but they are horribly written. 90% of the review is on the comonents, and 5% is on riding (I took the bike out and it road great). Not very professional.
I remember being excited about cycling media stuff. Especially Bicycling. Then I was reading a back issue, which had some high end review. I think it was a cervelo r5 or something similar.

The piece ended something along the lines of, 'it isn't a race bike, but you could take it to a race if you really wanted to.' That very day, the bike model was ridden to a stage victory in the TdF.

And that's the point I stopped taking reviews seriously.
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Old 11-27-18, 12:13 PM
  #56  
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I'd had my eye on the Whipshot (not just the Ti, but also the Steel and AL versions) for a while now, and I jumped on the Black Friday deal. Set that bike up for my wife, and now that it's sorted and test-ridden, I went ahead and bought one for myself. (The deal is gone at bikesdirect, but it's still available at biekshopwarehouse). A few notes:

1. The Ti version does have dimpled chainstays.

2. I agree, the tire clearance choke point will come at the chainstays. I could see running 38s or maybe 40s.

3. My bike came with two minor issues, but one was a HUGE HUGE pain in the butt. The chain was sized too small, relatively to SRAM's instructions (it was two links too short). Second, the brake pad retaining spring was the wrong spring. It did not push the pads back fully when you released the brake, and it did not stay in place when you hit a bump, so it made it impossible to eliminate rotor rub (the rotor hit the spring itself as it bounced around). In hindsight, it was obviously the wrong spring, but it took me a LONG time to figure this out, and was only clear when I got a second set of pads that had the proper spring (which looked almost identical, but functioned differently).

4. The quality of the frame and the welds looks great.

5. The external cable routing is really simple but very well thought-out. No rattles at all, and very easy to set up.

6. The clutched RD with the lockout for removing the wheel is really brilliant.

7. My bike had brake hoses that were WAY too long. So I got to learn how to bleed SRAM brakes (had previously done Shimano only). It's a very clever and logical system, but I still don't like having to deal with toxic DOT fluid.

SRAM Force 1 groupset + solid DT Swiss wheelset + Ritchey finishing kit = almost the entire price of the bike, but they throw in a Ti frame and a full carbon fork for FREE. It's an insane deal.

My next step will be trying to get fenders setup. It looks like it has all the right mounting points.
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Old 11-28-18, 05:40 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
I did the same, just got the bike built up (almost). missing the 16point bottom bracket tool to tighten the front disk rotor properly, will need to bring into LBS tomorrow.
BTW, Cann't find your post yet, what size your purchased and how tall are you?

I got 53cm and it's just 19.6 lbs, it's amazing for a gravel bike.
Unfortunately I wrote up a whole post about my experience and building the bike up and my thoughts and posted it. But for some reason it got lost in this forums politics. I we make sure to re re write another one. But I spent a half hour writing that up.

The only issue i had was putting in a mounting bolt to the front flat disc calipers to the fork. One of the bolt was scratching the caliper from a bad angle. It seems a little bit of a design flaw. Not allowing enough room for the bolts to enter without grazing the head of the caliper and scratching it on the way in. I ended up taking it to the bike shop to deal with the derailleur, (NOT MY THING). Adjusting the derailleur is never been something I've been good at, but I also wanted my LBS to make sure everything else was safe to ride and all bolts were specs to torque. All was $80. Well worth it for the once over and adjustments. They also put locking compounds in threads and made sure to use special grease for the carbon and titanium and aluminum joints, ie seat, headtube, etc.

Couldn't be happier. Just ordered the 32c sector 2 hutchinson tires for the rainy season here. The cross tires on not good in rain. The back end already slipped out on the railcar tracks in San Francisco.
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Old 11-29-18, 04:55 AM
  #58  
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Send me photos of your housing for the brakes and shifter.. I think mine are way to long as well.
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Old 11-29-18, 05:01 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by wheelsmcgee View Post
For any of you folks that have the Ti or 853 whipshots, Iíd be curious to know what the tire clearance is like...what width do you think they can run? They come with 33mm tires, BD says 40mm will fit...does that seem about right? Any wider?



I'm getting my measuring calipers tomorrow. I think 650b and 47 would be the limit. I'm measuring with a ruler and it could work. But there's not a lot of room for mud or anything else. So if you're light trail riding or street it could be a possibility..

Please lengthen my message to atleast two characters?
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Old 11-29-18, 05:33 AM
  #60  
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I posted in the Gravel cyclocross forum.
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Old 12-03-18, 03:04 AM
  #61  
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Hi, how do you know your chain is 2 links short? And how do you know the brake pads spring is wrong?

i got a little problem that the drive train seems a little loud than I expected. I was suspecting the chain and front chain ring is rubbing too hard

thanks and your explanantion of chain being too short may make sense to explain it. Thanks


Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
I'd had my eye on the Whipshot (not just the Ti, but also the Steel and AL versions) for a while now, and I jumped on the Black Friday deal. Set that bike up for my wife, and now that it's sorted and test-ridden, I went ahead and bought one for myself. (The deal is gone at bikesdirect, but it's still available at biekshopwarehouse). A few notes:

1. The Ti version does have dimpled chainstays.

2. I agree, the tire clearance choke point will come at the chainstays. I could see running 38s or maybe 40s.

3. My bike came with two minor issues, but one was a HUGE HUGE pain in the butt. The chain was sized too small, relatively to SRAM's instructions (it was two links too short). Second, the brake pad retaining spring was the wrong spring. It did not push the pads back fully when you released the brake, and it did not stay in place when you hit a bump, so it made it impossible to eliminate rotor rub (the rotor hit the spring itself as it bounced around). In hindsight, it was obviously the wrong spring, but it took me a LONG time to figure this out, and was only clear when I got a second set of pads that had the proper spring (which looked almost identical, but functioned differently).

4. The quality of the frame and the welds looks great.

5. The external cable routing is really simple but very well thought-out. No rattles at all, and very easy to set up.

6. The clutched RD with the lockout for removing the wheel is really brilliant.

7. My bike had brake hoses that were WAY too long. So I got to learn how to bleed SRAM brakes (had previously done Shimano only). It's a very clever and logical system, but I still don't like having to deal with toxic DOT fluid.

SRAM Force 1 groupset + solid DT Swiss wheelset + Ritchey finishing kit = almost the entire price of the bike, but they throw in a Ti frame and a full carbon fork for FREE. It's an insane deal.

My next step will be trying to get fenders setup. It looks like it has all the right mounting points.
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Old 12-03-18, 10:57 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
Hi, how do you know your chain is 2 links short?

You can download all the SRAM manuals online. For the SRAM force 1 groupset, SRAM provides a precise procedure for sizing the chain: you wrap the chain directly around the single front chain ring and the largest rear cog (not through the RD) and then you basically add two internal and two external links. The manual provides pictures of all of this.

On my bike as it arrived from Bikes Direct my chain was a full two links two short Ė I basically had one internal link and one external link of overlap.

I had suspected it might be too short because when in the biggest rear cog the derailleur was just about being ripped off the bike.

And how do you know the brake pads spring is wrong?
That's a really long story, but I've told a short version of it in the other Whipshot Ti thread in this forum.
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Old 12-03-18, 02:54 PM
  #63  
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ordering

after reading the further posts i did go ahead and order from bikestorewarehouse for $1948 vs the $2399 at BD at what to my surprise did the shipping information say?
exact same address as BD ! Anyway thanks for all the good info. I have never had a bike with disc brakes- for those of you that have and have purchased this model is it worth trying to
DIY or should I just start with LBS assembly?
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Old 12-03-18, 08:46 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by OBMD View Post
after reading the further posts i did go ahead and order from bikestorewarehouse for $1948 vs the $2399 at BD at what to my surprise did the shipping information say?
exact same address as BD ! Anyway thanks for all the good info. I have never had a bike with disc brakes- for those of you that have and have purchased this model is it worth trying to
DIY or should I just start with LBS assembly?
Good timing Ė bike shop warehouse has now raised the price back up to $2399.

As for setting it up yourself or taking it to the LBS, it TOTALLY depends on how comfortable you are with doing some basic wrenching on your bike, but the key thing is that the bike comes without the front brake caliper installed. Centering the caliper on the rotor is NOT rocket science, but it IS tricky to get it right. I would say thatís the hardest part of the job. Youíll also need to do this:

1. Install the handlebars onto the stem and make sure the headset has the proper bearing preload.

2. Install the rotors onto the wheels.

3. Adjust the rear derailleur (the whole thing Ė low limit, high limit, cable tension).

In addition, from my experience I can say that you might need or want:

A. To shorten the brake hoses (because they will be way too long) which will also require bleeding the SRAM system (you will need a sram bleed kit for this).

B. Check the chain length and perhaps put on a new chain thatís the right length.

If you haventít ever done this stuff before, you will not be able to do it quickly. Centering the calipers and bleeding the brakes takes time, and you want to do it right. But none of it is impossible to do.
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Old 12-03-18, 10:11 PM
  #65  
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Thanks, I did saw the manual before, but would a slightly too short chain cause a louder drive train?

my bike shifts ok and just a little bit louder in the front chain ring than I feel a normal drive train would be. And also to mention, I adjusted the derailleur and still some times it does not shift butter smooth, a little bit disappointed, not sure if itís force1 just like that or my was not setup properly, or the chain length is the problem



Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
You can download all the SRAM manuals online. For the SRAM force 1 groupset, SRAM provides a precise procedure for sizing the chain: you wrap the chain directly around the single front chain ring and the largest rear cog (not through the RD) and then you basically add two internal and two external links. The manual provides pictures of all of this.

On my bike as it arrived from Bikes Direct my chain was a full two links two short Ė I basically had one internal link and one external link of overlap.

I had suspected it might be too short because when in the biggest rear cog the derailleur was just about being ripped off the bike.



That's a really long story, but I've told a short version of it in the other Whipshot Ti thread in this forum.
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Old 12-04-18, 10:16 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
Thanks, I did saw the manual before, but would a slightly too short chain cause a louder drive train?


A short chain will certainly cause more chain noise in the larger cogs. The question is what kind of drive chain noise you are getting: is it the ticking or clicking from an improperly adjusted RD, or is it just the chain on cassette and rings noise of a new drivetrain

my bike shifts ok and just a little bit louder in the front chain ring than I feel a normal drive train would be. And also to mention, I adjusted the derailleur and still some times it does not shift butter smooth, a little bit disappointed, not sure if itís force1 just like that or my was not setup properly, or the chain length is the problem
SRAM does not design their drivetrains to shift "butter smooth"; those words are a much better description of Shimano. SRAM is aiming for a distinct snick as you go from gear to gear; many SRAM riders hate Shimano's "butter smooth" which seems vague to them compared to the more precise SNAP of the gears on SRAM.

My wife's bike shifts perfectly from gear to gear and has no noise from the derailleur. But the cassette and chain are certainly a bit louder when shifting gears compared to my Shimano bikes. That's normal.

I didn't ride my bike with the too short chain, but I can tell you that in the smaller cogs, the chain length sizing would not make an issue, so if you still have gear shifting or noise issues there, then the problem is coming from somewhere else.
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Old 12-04-18, 04:52 PM
  #67  
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Thanks Fronesis, that make sense.

I figure the noise then could just be from the chain it self, PC1170 is the hollow pin design, I heard that people say it's a little bit louder just because it's hollow and easier to amplify the sound of engagement and normal rub. I'll see if grease it with better lube will help.

w.r.t to shifting, mine generally is ok, but from time to time, it seems did not shift as smooth as it could be in some of the youtube force 1x videos. I tried to adjust b-gap, but in my setup, even I loose the B-Gap screw all the way out, it seems does not get close enough to the biggest cog. (according to SRAM, the top of the derailleur pulley should be 6-15mm below the biggest cog)
do you guys have that problem?




Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
A short chain will certainly cause more chain noise in the larger cogs. The question is what kind of drive chain noise you are getting: is it the ticking or clicking from an improperly adjusted RD, or is it just the chain on cassette and rings noise of a new drivetrain



SRAM does not design their drivetrains to shift "butter smooth"; those words are a much better description of Shimano. SRAM is aiming for a distinct snick as you go from gear to gear; many SRAM riders hate Shimano's "butter smooth" which seems vague to them compared to the more precise SNAP of the gears on SRAM.

My wife's bike shifts perfectly from gear to gear and has no noise from the derailleur. But the cassette and chain are certainly a bit louder when shifting gears compared to my Shimano bikes. That's normal.

I didn't ride my bike with the too short chain, but I can tell you that in the smaller cogs, the chain length sizing would not make an issue, so if you still have gear shifting or noise issues there, then the problem is coming from somewhere else.
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Old 12-04-18, 05:19 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
I tried to adjust b-gap, but in my setup, even I loose the B-Gap screw all the way out, it seems does not get close enough to the biggest cog. (according to SRAM, the top of the derailleur pulley should be 6-15mm below the biggest cog)
do you guys have that problem?
If the chain is too short then then it will pull the RD too far away from the cogs. This was one of the reasons that I put a new chain on my bike and sized it according to SRAM's specs.

With the chain at the proper length it's easy to get the b-gap setting right.

It's a bummer that they sized the chain too short, but it's an easy fix.
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Old 12-04-18, 11:27 PM
  #69  
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Thanks so much, did you actually counted how many links you have in your chain, since our bike should be exactly the same setup.
without damage the chain, is there a way to actually tell if the chain is sized too short? or is it possible you can help take a picture to show when you shift to the biggest cog, how should the derailleur look like? and what's your B-Gap adjustment screw's position, all the way out or somewhere in between?

I certainly can buy a new chain and do it from the scratch, but thinking if there is less painful way to confirm if the chain length is actually the problem.

Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
If the chain is too short then then it will pull the RD too far away from the cogs. This was one of the reasons that I put a new chain on my bike and sized it according to SRAM's specs.

With the chain at the proper length it's easy to get the b-gap setting right.

It's a bummer that they sized the chain too short, but it's an easy fix.

Last edited by shaneshane; 12-04-18 at 11:28 PM. Reason: wording change
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Old 12-04-18, 11:46 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
Thanks so much, did you actually counted how many links you have in your chain, since our bike should be exactly the same setup.
without damage the chain, is there a way to actually tell if the chain is sized too short? or is it possible you can help take a picture to show when you shift to the biggest cog, how should the derailleur look like? and what's your B-Gap adjustment screw's position, all the way out or somewhere in between?

I certainly can buy a new chain and do it from the scratch, but thinking if there is less painful way to confirm if the chain length is actually the problem.
A few follow-ups:

1.The SRAM chain comes with a SRAM quick link. You can remove that and then wrap the chain around the crank and largest cog to see if the chain is sized according to SRAMís specs. This wonít do any damage to the chain at all.

2. I just got my second Whipshot Ti (the first one was for my wife; this one is for me). The chain is too short. I havenít confirmed this yet, but the chain is so short that the RD is FULLY extended, so Iím sure when I measure it it will come up short. I can confirm tomorrow.

3. I didnít count the links in my chain (I just checked the overlap and sized it that way), but tomorrow I can also tell you then how many links are in the chain that came on my bike and how many links are in a chain sized according to SRAM. Please note, however, that chain sizing also depends on chainstay length, and those will vary depending on the size of the frame; in other words, your chain might need to be a different length than mine.
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Old 12-05-18, 03:12 AM
  #71  
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Great, my frame size is 53 FWIW.

i’ll see If I can remove the power lock in the chain this weekend, let me know what u find out
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Old 12-05-18, 11:31 PM
  #72  
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Quick Report

My previous posts here were based upon my experience putting together a size 53 Whipshot Ti for my wife. Today I put together a size 55 Whipshot Ti for myself.
  1. The brake pads, and particularly the brake pad retaining spring was specced incorrectly. Once again the spring did not hold the pads tightly enough, allowing the spring and pads to bounce up and down, and when this occurs the rotor hits the retaining spring. I made a video showing the problem. Replacing the pads and spring with a brand new set of SRAM Road pads/spring solves the problem entirely.
  2. The chain was again too short when sizing by the SRAM Force 1 manual. On my wife's bike the chain was 2 or 3 links too short. On my bike the overlap of the original chain showed two internal and one external link (SRAM manual says overlap 2 external and 2 internal links). I counted the links: the bike came with a chain that had 54 external links, plus the master link. When sized according to SRAM's instructions, my chain has 55 external links, plus a master link. This is a very slight difference; I'm sure it had no real effect. (But it might have on my wife's bike). But I figured since I was redoing everything else, might as well do it right.
  3. The supplied SRAM master link was incorrect. The two "halves" of the master link both pointed in the same direction, so when installed together one would point in the right direction and one in the wrong direction. I replaced this.
  4. The brake hoses were again far too long. I removed about 5 inches from my front hose and almost 8 inches from the rear.
  5. The RD housing was also a bit long. It would have been totally workable, but I resized it anyway.
  6. When doing so I had to pull the RD cable from the housing, and I discovered that they used the wrong housing ferrule at the lever. They used the same kind as they used at the rear, which has a short nipple sticking out, but this won't fit in the lever and it had been smushed down and basically destroyed (it was really ugly). I replaced with a proper ferrule.
  7. The brake hose connections were made with no grease whatsoever, and I suspect there are a number of places on the bike where grease is missing. The headset was greased, so I'm hoping the BB and crank were as well. That's the only part of the bike I didn't redo.
I'll post the video of the brake pad spring tomorrow if anyone cares to see it. All the other issues are totally minor and are to be expected. But the incorrect pad spring leads to the rotors rubbing, and it's very hard to diagnose the problem. I wonder why others haven't had this problem, because I got it on 2 out of 2 bikes. Even with the caliper centered perfectly on the rotor, if you bounce the front wheel on the ground, the pads and spring will slip down and it will rub...badly.

Bottom line: GREAT BIKE, but unless you like doing your own wrenching, take it to your LBS for assembly, and ask them to go over quite a few things.

Putting everything back together on my bike took me about 8 hours total...

Last edited by fronesis; 12-05-18 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 12-06-18, 11:15 PM
  #73  
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Great info, and looking forward to see your video
also, mine is 53 size, will check the chain length soon, SRAM warned that you cannot reuse the power link

Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
My previous posts here were based upon my experience putting together a size 53 Whipshot Ti for my wife. Today I put together a size 55 Whipshot Ti for myself.
  1. The brake pads, and particularly the brake pad retaining spring was specced incorrectly. Once again the spring did not hold the pads tightly enough, allowing the spring and pads to bounce up and down, and when this occurs the rotor hits the retaining spring. I made a video showing the problem. Replacing the pads and spring with a brand new set of SRAM Road pads/spring solves the problem entirely.
  2. The chain was again too short when sizing by the SRAM Force 1 manual. On my wife's bike the chain was 2 or 3 links too short. On my bike the overlap of the original chain showed two internal and one external link (SRAM manual says overlap 2 external and 2 internal links). I counted the links: the bike came with a chain that had 54 external links, plus the master link. When sized according to SRAM's instructions, my chain has 55 external links, plus a master link. This is a very slight difference; I'm sure it had no real effect. (But it might have on my wife's bike). But I figured since I was redoing everything else, might as well do it right.
  3. The supplied SRAM master link was incorrect. The two "halves" of the master link both pointed in the same direction, so when installed together one would point in the right direction and one in the wrong direction. I replaced this.
  4. The brake hoses were again far too long. I removed about 5 inches from my front hose and almost 8 inches from the rear.
  5. The RD housing was also a bit long. It would have been totally workable, but I resized it anyway.
  6. When doing so I had to pull the RD cable from the housing, and I discovered that they used the wrong housing ferrule at the lever. They used the same kind as they used at the rear, which has a short nipple sticking out, but this won't fit in the lever and it had been smushed down and basically destroyed (it was really ugly). I replaced with a proper ferrule.
  7. The brake hose connections were made with no grease whatsoever, and I suspect there are a number of places on the bike where grease is missing. The headset was greased, so I'm hoping the BB and crank were as well. That's the only part of the bike I didn't redo.
I'll post the video of the brake pad spring tomorrow if anyone cares to see it. All the other issues are totally minor and are to be expected. But the incorrect pad spring leads to the rotors rubbing, and it's very hard to diagnose the problem. I wonder why others haven't had this problem, because I got it on 2 out of 2 bikes. Even with the caliper centered perfectly on the rotor, if you bounce the front wheel on the ground, the pads and spring will slip down and it will rub...badly.

Bottom line: GREAT BIKE, but unless you like doing your own wrenching, take it to your LBS for assembly, and ask them to go over quite a few things.

Putting everything back together on my bike took me about 8 hours total...
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Old 12-07-18, 12:13 AM
  #74  
Nightdiver
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Originally Posted by shaneshane View Post
Great info, and looking forward to see your video
also, mine is 53 size, will check the chain length soon, SRAM warned that you cannot reuse the power link
Yeah, but people do it all the time. I consider it just a semi-sleazy way to get you to buy a 10 pack of powerlinks. I've used powerlinks on chains that get removed/reinstalled dozens of times with no issues. Your call of course, but the worst that happens is it breaks at some point and you pull out the spare from your tool kit and replace it.
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Old 12-07-18, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightdiver View Post
Yeah, but people do it all the time. I consider it just a semi-sleazy way to get you to buy a 10 pack of powerlinks. I've used powerlinks on chains that get removed/reinstalled dozens of times with no issues. Your call of course, but the worst that happens is it breaks at some point and you pull out the spare from your tool kit and replace it.
^^^+ a million
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