Biker Pete 

Good point, Conti Gator Hardshell and Ultra Sport.

PeteHski

Yeah, that's like double the rolling resistance for the Hardshell

Biker Pete 

Yeah, lower RR from the tires and tubes, and the lower rotating mass. I can never rule out placebo, but in this case there is a basis for theoretical improvement.

SoSmellyAir

Any reason other than cost or roadside patchability?

I just installed a pair of Pirelli Smartube TPU tubes within new Continental GP5000 (25 mm) tires on my existing wheels. The TPU tubes were not more difficult to install than butyl tubes.

noglider 

I just don't see an advantage. The weight difference is inconsequential since I'm carrying far more than just an inner tube, and my cycling ability is not at the level where a tiny change in weight will change any needed kind of performance or time saving or enjoyment. Puncture resistance is about the same, right? Cost can be frightful unless I go with no-name tubes, and do I want to deal with aliexpress? I do patch my tubes a lot, and I have a system that works for me, collecting tubes in a batch and patching them once or twice a year. I've managed not to patch on the roadside, but I want to be ready to do it if I need to, since tubes sometimes fail in unexpected ways, and I could also get more flats than expected. I think my system has me ready for most eventualities at a reasonable expense of money and trouble. Basically, tpu tubes are likely to cost more and be more trouble. They won't cost less or save me trouble, so there is no compelling reason to try something cutting-edge.

SoSmellyAir

Mostly agreed, except for the "be more trouble" part, since you almost always patch at home. I had thought (from your prior post) that you were against trying new stuff, i.e., TPU tubes, and so pointed out that they are not so different from butyl tubes, at least installation-wise.

noglider 

I just don't see how tpu tubes can offer me less trouble than I currently have with butyl tubes. They may be the same, and they may be more, but less, I doubt it.

SoSmellyAir

TPU tube allegedly lose air at a slower rate than butyl tubes.

t2p

on one of my bikes - a 650b bike - TPU tubes reduced weight by approx 330 grams

( the OEM tubes were a portly 200 grams each )

considered going to a lightweight butyl tube (Schwalbe SV14 for example) - but the TPU tubes weighed less (-180 grams approx) and were actually less expensive

and the result ? I’m now more confident I can pass that elderly woman on the MUP - carrying her dog in a basket - to get the last scoop of blackberry cheesecake ice cream

or get to the Derailleur Cafe after the long gentle climb before the grill is shut down for the day

HTupolev

Not necessarily. Rolling resistance is likely to be responsible for much larger performance differences, but if someone is "feeling" something, it wouldn't be surprising if it predominantly arises from mass. Tire mass has large impacts on physical dynamics that are easily-felt by the rider but which contribute very little in the way of actual performance implications. In particular: resistance of the bicycle to side-to-side sway, resistance of the steering column to rotation, and gyroscopic precession.

eduskator

I don't think they will. In fact, I think they're more prone to puncture than good ol' butyl tubes.

Tubeless is the best solution I personally found so far. I've had no flats (well, there were some but they sealed instantly) in the past 2 seasons. Going to touch wood now.

noglider 

@HTupolev, wow, that's a big improvement, but how do you know it's from the weight advantage rather than the difference in color?

If I sneak a full water bottle on the bike, will you feel it?

himespau 

My main benefit from them (haven't had to actually use them yet) is that I can fit 2 TPU tubes (in their boxes for added protection), in my seatbag and take up less room than one butyl tube in a ziploc bag. That extra room means I've got space for a full-sized tire jack instead of the VAR one and a small hose for my hand pump.

PeteHski

True, but going from Gators to GP5000 is 99% about the tyre suppleness and rolling resistance than it is about differences in tubes.

HTupolev

If you mount it on the front rim, absolutely!

Even if we're talking about performance rather than feel, "99%" is a very optimistic guess for the tires. GP5000 are a lot faster than Gators, but the difference between standard butyl tubes and fast TPU tubes isn't nothing.

But I wasn't talking about tires versus tubes anyway, I was talking about how much of the perceived difference (in overall setup) is due to weight versus other factors. To most cyclists, a lot of non-performance factors are felt more strongly "as performance" than actual performance changes are. This is because slight changes in speed and acceleration are very difficult for humans to accurately feel, but our brains build various proxies for things that can be felt. We're very good McNamara-fallacy generators. A good example of this is the phenomenon where riders feel over-pumped tires as "faster" than appropriately-pumped tires, even when the data is clearly showing a tangible disadvantage in rolling resistance and lower actual speeds.

PeteHski

I tend to agree, but tyre feel tends to dominate for me when comparing such wildly different tyres.

My only point really was that you can’t make any conclusions about the feel of TPU tubes unless you test them in the same tyres.

ls01

for her

noglider 

My point is that the placebo effect is powerful. Also, experienced cyclists are attuned to real differences in equipment in such a way that the perception of their differences is exaggerated. With bicycles, it's extremely hard to do blind tests, so when we invest in fancy equipment, we look for reasons to justify our expenditures. My spouse doesn't ride much, so when I change something on her bike, she is less likely to notice differences. This reinforces my idea that more experienced riders are more attuned.

bblair

Yesterday, at a bike swap, I bought some Conti butyl tubes for $3 each. Name brand, from a LBS, I know the guy.

I get about 1 flat per 4-5000 miles. Let's say it takes me 10 minutes to change it.

At 5-10X for the price. How much faster does a TPU tube have to be to make up for (hopefully) the same number of flats? Exactly!

noglider 

I'm with you, but for some people, diminishing returns don't matter. Better is better.

t2p

your example is a little twisted

you purchased tubes at a swap meet - great price - and comparing to a tpu tube at max retail price

bblair

You're right.

My point was, that for a significant price, the gains are very, very small.

Today on a club ride, I got dropped 'cause 18mph was all I could manage. Not sure by how much, but let's say that the others already had their bike up on their car racks when I got in. A little less rolling resistance and a little less weight (it was flat today, so no benefit) would not have made the difference. If it would, I would buy them today.

rsbob 

Just purchased today two TPU tubes for $10.00 from Ali - there were cheaper ones but wanted metal stems. So the difference in prices between butyl and TPU may be a push if one is a smart shopper.

bblair

That is a great price.

I have never bought anything from Ali....do you think it is the same product at a lower markup, or a lower quality product? I have read anecdotes, but no real comparisons.

rsbob 

Without the markup is guess, but will let you know quality when put them on the road. There are at least a half-dozen different manufacturers selling. My assumption, since most stuff is made in China, is that most of the stuff is relabeled/packaged with a western company’s logo for sale in the US and EU.