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Igh

Old 04-10-21, 04:03 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by BFisher
Internally geared hubs can be a great thing for the reasons already covered by others here. To me they are just another choice/variety to enjoy. I will say that it is a different style of riding than a derailleur-geared bike, but is an easy adjustment, at least for me. Good sources for information include Dan Burkhart, the late Sheldon Brown, and Tony Hadland's blog. My experience is limited to the old stuff, and I can say that after giving these hubs a serious try I will never not own one. I don't have a preference one way or another between derailleurs and IGHs. Both systems are wonderful. But a well adjusted Sturmey-Archer AW with an appropriately selected gear range (cogs can be changed) is truly something special. Here's one of mine.


Notice the hills of Northeastern PA in the background. This isn't the bike I choose for climbing, but I have ridden it up and out of my valley. Low gear is about 45 inches.
That is a beautiful bike.
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Old 04-10-21, 05:35 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by fredlord
That is a beautiful bike.
Thank you.
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Old 04-10-21, 06:09 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Reynolds
My thought when I built my Nexus 8 commuter bike was "what lubricant can I put on this to avoid disassembling it every 5,000 kms?"
So I when I disassembled it for its first service drilled & tapped the hubshell for an oil port. Used ATF since then, never disassembled again, just change 15 ml ATF every 5,000 kms. Zero problems after 10 years/50,000 kms. Adjusted the cone just once. Still works like new.
Thats my line of thinking. ATF bad for seals? Automatic Transmissions got rubber and plastic seals that can last 200,000 miles or more. ATF poor lubricant? Then why do properly maintained Automatic Transmissions last over 200,000 miles?

If someone says the insides have some type of bronze gears that aren’t so good with certain oils, like what some say about worm drive saws... that’s different reasoning than “poor lubricant.”

And the people using baby oil in their MTB brakes? Why when ATF is so good, so cheap, I already need some for my cars, or can grab a half bottle from work.
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Old 04-11-21, 05:19 PM
  #54  
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How much weight would it add over a normal 7 speed cassette or freewheel? Like total bike weight difference.
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Old 04-12-21, 11:19 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by SkinGriz
How much weight would it add over a normal 7 speed cassette or freewheel? Like total bike weight difference.
depending on the hub and the wheel build, the wheel will weigh probably weigh 4-7lbs.

I’ve run a Shimano Alfine 8 for 3 years now and the rear wheel alone is about 5.5lbs, no tires or tubes. My 43cm bike is about 24lbs with disc brakes. That being said, it’s my winter bike and it’s nice to not have to worry about salt eating my drivetrain at a rapid pace. I maintenance it once a year.

if you’re looking for a winter set up or commute a lot, I’d recommend it if you can overlook the weight and the inconsistent gear range.
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Old 04-12-21, 11:21 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C
I'd be surprised if Sturmey changed their 3-speed design in any fundamental way. From where I sit, the combination IGH and derailleur seems like a pretty niche use -- where you don't want to have a FD for some reason, and you want the chainring to be a tiny little nub. When I encounter terrain where I'd think about such a thing, I'm usually off my bike and pushing or carrying it.
SRAM has put quite a bit of money into the premise that there is real value to getting rid of the front derailleur.
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Old 04-12-21, 03:08 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by GregU
SRAM has put quite a bit of money into the premise that there is real value to getting rid of the front derailleur.
Indeed, I've seen a lot of 1x rigs, and ride one myself, but as a casual cyclist, I can actually live with 1x9. I keep telling myself that if I ever get fit enough to run my bike out of gears, I'll reward myself with a bigger ring. Hasn't happened yet.
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Old 04-12-21, 03:19 PM
  #58  
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idk, I like playing around with the many gear options...... Like when the 10R80 trans is looking for the optimum gear ratio when pulling a 28' boat using a 3.5L going through Kentucky. I swear that combo has automotive ADHD.
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Old 04-12-21, 07:38 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C
Indeed, I've seen a lot of 1x rigs, and ride one myself, but as a casual cyclist, I can actually live with 1x9. I keep telling myself that if I ever get fit enough to run my bike out of gears, I'll reward myself with a bigger ring. Hasn't happened yet.
Box 9 agrees with you. They have a variety of options in the 1x9 space, and a philosophy on why 9 gears is the right number.

https://boxcomponents.com/collections/prime-9-filter
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Old 04-12-21, 07:42 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C
Indeed, I've seen a lot of 1x rigs, and ride one myself, but as a casual cyclist, I can actually live with 1x9. I keep telling myself that if I ever get fit enough to run my bike out of gears, I'll reward myself with a bigger ring. Hasn't happened yet.
Maybe 12 years ago I bought 175mm crank arms with 3x for my big box POS. Drilled through the rivets on a drill press, used 1/4-20 to put only the middle chain ring back on. Had no idea 1x drivetrains were a thing.
Never been an epic long distance cyclist, but 1x7 was enough to get from 10th and Gaffey to the Korean Bell and back.
I guess point being I was surprised the middle ring was short enough to go uphill and still tall enough to go fast (for me).

Now I remember I think the big box rear derailer probably only worked well when the front was in the middle anyway and I didn’t know it could be adjusted.

I saw on here another BF member made the big ring a guard by grinding off the teeth and reinstalling. Wish I thought of that.
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Old 04-12-21, 07:51 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Troul
idk, I like playing around with the many gear options...... Like when the 10R80 trans is looking for the optimum gear ratio when pulling a 28' boat using a 3.5L going through Kentucky. I swear that combo has automotive ADHD.
I wonder if just the act of shifting is what where’s ATs out.
I read somewhere about cars benefiting from better grounding. So I took couple of short sections of 480 cable from work and made more grounding cables out of them.

Weirdest thing was my KIA Forte would never keep the same shift points. It would hold the shorter gear loooong after I lifted off the pedal and had no load on drivetrain.

After I put my piggyback ground straps on it totally worked intuitively like I expected an AT to work. And after I put the extra ground straps on I could hear solenoids resetting after I turned the car off and walked away. Never heard that before.
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Old 04-12-21, 10:00 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by SkinGriz
I’ve looked at a couple threads today.

I used the search here. (Not so helpful)

I’d like to learn about Internal Geared Hubs.
Why aren’t they more popular? Do they work OK? Do they have gear oil that gets changed?

I’m ok with being sent links.
Thank you.
+ Can use a full chain guard.
+ Can shift while stopped.
+ For tire diameters smaller than 20" (like a Brompton), can provide needed overdrive gears for reasonable top speeds (impossible with external gearing alone).
+ No derailleurs.
- More difficult to repair, difficult and expensive to find rebuild service even in large cities, at shops that don't you'll hear "you'll need a new hub/wheel" (about same cost as service).
- Large diameter seals required for disassembly don't seal out water well; In rainy environments, requires annual teardown and lube with marine grease at about $100 each time. In fact, you'll need this at initial purchase if you want the hub to last.
- Limited gear range.
- Heavier.
- About 5% friction loss in planetary gears (unless all locked and direct drive, there is usually one gear where this is the case, on 3-speed IGH it's usually 2nd gear).
- Some have many tiny bearings instead of fewer larger ones, and these seem less durable for heavy loads such as touring.
- More expensive to replace.
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Old 04-13-21, 01:18 PM
  #63  
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This is a long thread now, and I only reading about the half.
The premises is already wrong: The are not popular in North America. In Europe, they are very popular for commuter bikes, check the streets in Denmark, the Netherlands, Germany...

I rode old 3speed IGHs (likely Sachs) in the old time, even in the hilly parts of Vienna this was fine.
Later switched to an Alfine 8 (which I ride still now), a cargo bike with a Nexus 8, and my new bike (Soma Wolverine) with an Alfine 11 Di2.
For commuting I like the low maintenance (basically all problems are due to cabling, in winter dirt can create a few problems on the Alfine, but that's it), and being able to switch gears on a red traffic light. For commuting, I don't have a problem with a slightly higher weight or lower efficiency.
I luckily live in Montreal where a few bike shops now IGHs quite well and can service them. When I lived in Europe, basically every bike shop knew what to do, here not so much.
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Old 04-13-21, 01:24 PM
  #64  
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My next bike will be a Tout Terrain with a Rohloff every IGH bike I’ve ridden has impressed me more than any derailleur bike I’ve owned.
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Old 04-14-21, 04:22 AM
  #65  
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Igh

Originally Posted by Germany_chris
My next bike will be a Tout Terrain with a Rohloff every IGH bike I’ve ridden has impressed me more than any derailleur bike I’ve owned.
They are magnificent tourers!

Re hubs expensive to replace - there are Rohloffs around that have done 100,000 km (62,000 miles) and still working perfectly.
How many chain rings and cassettes would be required over those distances?

Mike
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Old 04-14-21, 05:51 AM
  #66  
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What do you think of IGH hubs for Ebikes? Are they a better fit?
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Old 04-14-21, 08:35 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by RohloffRoller
They are magnificent tourers!

Re hubs expensive to replace - there are Rohloffs around that have done 100,000 km (62,000 miles) and still working perfectly.
How many chain rings and cassettes would be required over those distances?

Mike
Pay now or pay later. Either way you pay.
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Old 04-14-21, 08:55 AM
  #68  
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I have a Shimano Alfine 8 speed hub that has been absolutely bombproof. I used it on my mountain bike for challenging off road riding with a lower than recommended gear ratio (more torque into the hub) and never had an issue. THe only maintenance I ever did was (a) disassemble and dip in ATF as recommended by internets people, and (b) occasionally disassemble the 'cassette joint' (external cable attachment mechanism) and wipe it clean.

THe main bike it was used on has vertical dropouts and so I used an old rear derailleur as a chain tensioner. And because I never bothered to remove the extra large chainring from the crank, I could stop and put the chain on the large ring by hand - I called it my 'Greasy Fingers Overdrive'
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Old 04-19-21, 09:43 PM
  #69  
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Had one as a kid on a Schwinn Racer, 2 speed w coaster brake. Beat the crap out of that bike, never occurred to me to oil it, or do any other maintenance. Last year got a hold of a Sports Tourer frame, and decided to build it up with an IGH. Pretty entertaining, couple of hundred miles so far, no issues.
Tim





1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer
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Old 04-20-21, 09:56 AM
  #70  
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Reading other threads on other forums- UK stuff?

So the SA hub engages like a freewheel or cassette, the Shimano hub does not engage immediately.

Last edited by SkinGriz; 04-20-21 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 04-21-21, 07:45 AM
  #71  
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I have a 5 speed SA hub and a 3 speed Shimano hub here in Cambodia and sense no difference in engagement.
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Old 04-23-21, 07:45 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by tcs
This.

Human muscles have a fairly narrow, peaky efficiency band.

Best human + machine efficiency keeps crank rpm in that narrow band.
Actually, the research I’ve seen shows a fairly broad power output peak from about 1/3 to 2/3 of maximum rpm. Obviously the absolute peak is about in the middle but only maybe ten percent or less down at those peripheral cadences.

That’s why those of us who ride single speed still get around pretty well even when there are some hills. I can keep it in the 50 to 100 rpm range most of the time and move along just fine.

Now, in a (non-track) race, those five to ten percent would be a big darn deal....

Otto
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Old 04-23-21, 08:46 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by ofajen
Actually, the research I’ve seen shows a fairly broad power output peak from about 1/3 to 2/3 of maximum rpm. Obviously the absolute peak is about in the middle but only maybe ten percent or less down at those peripheral cadences.

That’s why those of us who ride single speed still get around pretty well even when there are some hills. I can keep it in the 50 to 100 rpm range most of the time and move along just fine.

Now, in a (non-track) race, those five to ten percent would be a big darn deal....

Otto
I haven’t owned a single speed since I was a teenager. Thought about turning my department store junky MTB into a single speed, but I think the frame is probably ridiculously heavy and I don’t want to waste the time on a bike that won’t lose enough weight for the fun poppy ride I would want.
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Old 04-24-21, 07:49 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by SkinGriz
I haven’t owned a single speed since I was a teenager. Thought about turning my department store junky MTB into a single speed, but I think the frame is probably ridiculously heavy and I don’t want to waste the time on a bike that won’t lose enough weight for the fun poppy ride I would want.
Yeah, hills and headwinds are tough enough on single speed. My MTB is a vintage steel frame from 1988 and not exactly light but the bike is maybe 27 lbs or so. I use the best, fastest rolling tires I can. I don’t think I’d want to use anything heavier.

With SS gearing and touring bars it does rather feel like I’m riding a bigger version of a kid’s bike, but in a very good way! 😊

Otto
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Old 04-25-21, 07:46 PM
  #75  
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The problem with a single-speed is not just loss of efficiency, even if humans are capable of a wide torque band; Pushing hard on a tall gear while sitting in the saddle puts much more stress on the knees, and you'll regret it over time. It's different if you have the ability for long climbs out of the saddle with your legs much straighter. I rode a recumbent for a time on tours because it took the pressure off my hands, but inability to stand on climbs took its toll on my knees, so I switched back to a conventional bike but with aero bars to move the pressure from my hands to my forearms near the elbow. My recumbent just didn't have low enough gearing, riding a long uphill grade with a touring load. These days there are more solutions for that, but I still want the ability for standing climbs, and bringing a LWB 'bent up and down stairs was a bear.
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