tungsten

Tape2012

I understand that running stop signs is a dick move, but about half of that video showed the cyclists on narrow roads with no shoulder. A single cyclist in that situation should probably take the lane so functionally what is the difference between several cyclists filling the lane or one cyclist taking the lane? Either way the passing motorist is going to have to cross the center line in order to pass.

Granted there were also sections with a shoulder where single file would have been the way to go.

canklecat

Oh, look, it's this again.

Let's make it simple...

A typical group of cyclists bunched together takes up the same room as any vehicle from a car to a school bus, depending on the number of participants.

Taking the full lane, two or more abreast, makes the group more compact, shorter and easier to pass safely.

The same group strung out single file is harder to pass safely and invites incompetent drivers to attempt dangerous passes.

Passing said group of cyclists is no different from passing a slower moving car, horse drawn carriage or school bus. Any driver who can't figure out such an elementary problem shouldn't be driving at all.

And the reason said group of cyclists practices the Idaho Stop at traffic indication markers is the same reason why a motorist isn't expected to disassemble his vehicle and pass it, piece by piece, through a stop sign intersection, with the front bumper stopping, then the hood stopping, then the passenger compartment stopping, then the trunk, and finally the rear bumper. The group of cyclists passes smoothly together through the intersection as a group which takes up the same space as a motor vehicle.

​​​​​​Google the Idaho Stop for the correct practice, as explained by an Idaho bike mounted police officer. It's not chaos, a riot or daredevil free for all ignoring basic safety and pissing off drivers.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/entertainment/ent-columns-blogs/words-deeds/article172582841.html

downhillmaster

canklecat

If you think the Idaho Stop practice is irrelevant to cyclists everywhere then you aren't experienced or informed enough to discuss the issue.

jon c. 

Another one of those "I don't like cyclists on the road" threads. I get that some folks don't, but I have little concern for their feelings. These cyclists are riding in an absolutely proper manner. I have large groups riding where I live and sometimes you can get stuck behind them for 3 or 4 miles. But I've found it doesn't really slow you down that much.. I was behind a group not long ago for the entire 3-1/2 miles out to the main highway and I realized it only added about 2 minutes to my trip.

When I first started reading these forums, there were some cyclists who said the problem with "Share the Road" signs was some drivers thought it meant bicyclists were supposed to pull over to let cars pass. I couldn't see that as a problem, but I realize now I was wrong. I now prefer the "Bicycles May Use Full Lane" signs as they are less ambiguous.

Colnago Mixte

Notice how in the video, there were plenty of people on bikes in ones and twos going in the other direction, and the cars were having absolutely no problem getting around those people, they weren't even mentioned. Instead, they follow alongside the group and yell out inane questions until the cyclists get tired of it and lose their cool. Which is what they focus on.

Sure, the classic journalism formula. Create an unpleasant situation, then blame your victims for reacting to it. Mike Wallace would be proud.

I do think large groups often do behave badly on the roads, that's one reason why I avoid them. But reporters in cars yelling stuff at people, while it generates some compelling video of pissed off cyclists and "French Waves", only creates more tension between cars and bikes. And who knows. might give some angry SUV driver the validation he needs to take the next step and go mow some bicyclists down.

Paul Barnard

Those cyclists should have given the motorists what the motorists want. A single file line of bicycles spaced 2 bike lengths apart and FRAP, which on that road would be anywhere in the lane.

Paul Barnard

This is a great video to demonstrate why two abreast is best on narrow roads.

AlmostTrick

Right, but facts have nothing to do with it. Just seeing cyclists "in the way" is a major trigger for some. In some (many?) motorists minds, they should never have to slow down for cyclists.

Having said that, there's no way I will ever ride in a group that runs stops with other traffic around as shown in the OP video.

OBoile

The cycling club should have split into smaller groups. My club as a policy that when there are > 12 riders, we split up. Makes life much easier for motorists.

Some people here need to remember that in a war against cars we lose. The vast majority of the voting population are car drivers, not cyclists. Politicians know this. If you want things to get better, being a jerk, selectively obeying laws and frustrating drivers is not the best strategy.

wphamilton

A group that size, if they all moved over single file you'd still have to swing over to the other lane to pass, but you'd be over there for 2 or 3 times as long. Is that really what the news reporter wanted?

Paul Barnard

I won't ride with any size group that doesn't treat motorists courteously or that blatantly breaks the law. At a certain size on certain roads a group becomes a rolling roadblock, and that's not cool.

AlmostTrick

They really don't think it out like that.

I think perception has a lot to do with it. If the cyclists are as far right as they can go, single file, and the driver still can not pass, that's less of an injustice in their minds. There's not enough room and the driver gets to decide not to pass. The cyclists are at least trying to stay out of the way, which is the correct order in the motorists mind.

But when faced with cyclists riding two abreast, it's the law breaking cyclists who are "blocking" them out, preventing a pass. This just can't be!

I'm not saying it's right, or a reason to not ride two abreast, but I believe this is how many motorists think.

wphamilton

I think the perception has everything to do with it

The group I've ridden with does "car back" and move over single file, which is fine with me because I do the same thing riding by myself. Minus calling out "car back" of course. It probably doesn't help them pass but there's less friction that way.

That reporter, driving alongside the group of cyclists and yelling out at them, I can't help but wonder if he does the same thing when he's off the clock. It would be ironic if someone caught it on his go-pro and it aired on a rival segment on road rage.

DrIsotope

If the group in the OP's video rode single file, it would be a line of cyclists about a quarter of a mile long. Now let's have them behave as ultra-upstanding members of society and come to a full and complete stop at every light and signal.

How happy will those obnoxious drivers be when they have to wait for a quarter mile of cyclists to get through an intersection one at a time? The people in San Francisco didn't like it much. It didn't change anything, but they still didn't like it.

The "same road, same rules" argument is idiotic. If a person cannot comprehend the difference between 20lbs doing 20mph and 4000lbs doing 60mph, they shouldn't be allowed on the roads at all.

Obnoxious anti-cycling blowhards are upset because a bicycle made their trip to the liquor store take an extra 23 seconds. Meanwhile, we're all just trying not to get killed.

Paul Barnard

I agree completely about perception and do just as you do when I ride. The reporter was an idiot. He sends the message to viewers that it's OK to yell at cyclists, that it's OK to call out bad behavior on the road. I wonder if the reporter has ever done a segment on distracted drivers where he sent the message to his viewers that it's OK to verbally challenge them on the road.

Tape2012

Who says they have to ride in one group? Seems to me that breaking up into smaller groups would be the prudent thing to do. Unless those guys like each other so much that they can't stand not being able to see each other.

Tape2012

This argument just sounds ridiculous.

Tape2012

Had the cyclists not taken the bait and responded, it would have been a non issue.

DrIsotope

But why should they have to ride separately? Simply so as not to inconvenience a few motorists for a few seconds a few times a week?

Mind you, this is coming from a person who rides almost exclusively solo. I would never expect a group ride to break up into smaller groups so as to seem less obtrusive. It wouldn't solve anything anyway. The loudmouths who complain would come upon the slowest group and say, "Oh great, a bunch of idiots on bikes in my way." Then a minute down the road, "Oh wonderful, even more idiots slowing me down." You have to understand: so long as cycling is a thing, these are people who cannot be pleased.

genec

Couple of things that really stand out in the OP video...

• "Forced to pass on a double yellow..." How, just how is any motorist FORCED to pass at any time??? Frankly as a driver, I simply wait until there is a safe place to pass... not on a hill, not on a curve and not where there are solid double yellow lines... I usually wait no more time than I might wait at a stop light. I am never "forced." I find my motor vehicle performs just fine at 10MPH as well as at 35 or 45MPH... with nothing more than a slight change of pressure on the gas pedal.
• "Ride in a single file line" Why? You still have to pass, and on narrow roads this still means moving over the center line, and single file line means twice as long a line to pass.
• "Share the road" Um, this works both ways folks... motorists share too, and should only CHOOSE to pass when safe to do so
• "There are no horse drawn carriages." Fine, are there ever tractors on this road... do you still have to cross the center line to pass them?
• Rolling thru stop signs. OK, fine... Each cyclist can stop and the motorists can wait for each and every cyclist to come to a stop, and then start. (that IS the alternative motorists seem to be calling for...)

Bottom line, some motorists encounter some cyclists on infrequent occasions, and freak out as they are temporarily delayed a few seconds... perhaps it is time for motorists to come to the realization that the delay is not that great, that automobiles DO NOT OWN the road, and others need not kowtow for a single driver's convenience, and last, amazing how cyclists are "the problem..." but stop and go rush hour traffic of single drivers in huge vehicles is "no problem" what so ever.

So no, this is not cyclists behaving badly... it is motorists feeling entitled to the road... and not being willing to share... "share" sometimes means, you go slow for a bit.
Remember "speed LIMIT" is not the speed you must drive, but the speed you must not exceed.

Tape2012

I look at it this way. Is it easier to pass 4 vehicles closely spaced so that you have to pass them all at once or to pass 4 vehicles spaced out so you can pass them one at a time?

Plus there is no driving reason why a large group of cyclists must ride together.

Like you I mostly ride solo or in very small groups. When you ride in a large group you are expected to ride like the group does, and I refuse to do that if I don't agree with what they are doing. Plus in a large group you are bound to have at least one type A jerk wad who ruins it for everyone else.

Milton Keynes

Those bicyclists should not be on the road. They should all ride on the sidewalk instead. [/dumb internet commenter]

Paul Barnard

Looking at the road they were on, If I were in a car, I'd rather deal with that one large group than have them broken down into four smaller groups. YMMV.