Special_k44

I’m interested in building a wheel set for a touring to gravel conversion I’m doing. I hear a lot about rims and hubs and how much weight they will be supporting.

how do I know what hub or rim or both is strong enough for me and my application?

I’m 220lbs and don’t plan on carrying any more weight than what is necessary for all day rides (water, food, extra layers, tools, etc).

Thanks in advance for you brain power.

Moisture

If you are a good rider, 220lb + a load won't bend anything maybe unless you ride over very rough roads.

Of all the wheels I ever trued or tensioned, Alex rims have been the most solid, stronger and easiest to maintain . 36 spokes would probably be best for you, but I do like the lighter weight and faster response of a good 32 spoke wheel.

It all depends on how often and how well you keep the spokes tensioned. As for hubs, Shimano makes some solid ones.

Andrew R Stewart 

At 220lbs I would be more concerned about spoke count, build quality and tire profile then hubs.

As to hubs a cassette/freehub bodied design will help prevent axle bending/breakage compared to a freewheel hub. As to rims I consider them to be somewhat a consumable item and place more value of brake track machining the other aspects (assuming agreeable rim cross section) like a welded or pinned seam. Andy

Moisture

Good advice

When I was between 200-220lb i was riding on a solid axle rear freewheel. It was still perfectly straight when I pulled out the rear wheel to replace it.

Andrew R Stewart 

And at 125 through my current 150 lbs I have bent/broken more then a few freewheeled axles. BTW the core of an axle offers very little bending resistance. I have not done the research, data collection, but I'll hazard an opinion that I have replaced more broken solid axles then QR ones over the years. However that solid axles are more common on less well made bikes and get used by less bike mechanical's savvy riders this should be of no surprise. Andy

Russ Roth

Assuming a modern bike
Very good -XT hubs
Better- White Industries
Best- Chris King or I9
Honestly you won't ever go wrong with an XT hub and if you're building a wheelset why settle for something cheaper when XT will run you less then 100 and usually about 80.
Rims can be any number of rims but you're not running heavily loaded and you're not actually that heavy so more information will be needed.
A velocity dyad can be bought for either and is meant for touring and gravel though I prefer the Velocity Aileron for disc, deeper rim and strong. Both Alex and Sun make decent rims and assuming everything is built right 32 spokes is just fine.

70sSanO

What wheel size do you need, as well as drop out width, QR or thru axle, disc or rim brakes, what tire width will fit your frame?

Touring bike doesn’t give a good indication of the era since they were very popular decades ago, what is the bike?

John

Moisture

I'm just wondering how you managed how you managed to bend or break any sort of axle at that weight. Im not particularly soft or careful with the way I ride over bumps and the roads I ride on can be quite dreadful. I did replace the solid axle on my old bike because the original one was severely bent and causing the tire to rub against the dropouts when I first acquired the bike.

Its not impossible for a lighter rider to damage one of these axles if they do not fit on the bike ideally. The design of these older types of hubs place a lot of stress into the axle so... a cassette hub design would certainly be more ideal for heavier riders.

Also, you really don't need more spokes when using a well built rim and hub. I've used and ridden some insanely strong wheels using 28 and 32 spokes before. I would also look into running wider width rims, and fitting as tight of a tire as possible into there.

Special_k44

the bike is a 1990 miyata 600GT which I think I can fit 35-38mm tires. Planning on using herse bon Jon or Barlow pass.
I am looking for 700c rims to be used with canti’s. Spacing is 130mm

i was thinking of going Shimano 600 or xt and really interested in which hoops people seem to like.

veganbikes

I would put White Industries a little higher. Chris King makes fine stuff and so does I9 but I think White Industries especially for a touring build would be a better (or best) solution.

Velocity rims are excellent though highly recommend.

In terms of the OP, find a good competent wheel builder and use decent parts and you will have a good sturdy wheel set. Certainly for touring a higher spoke count and 3x is a good way to go. My current touring bike is 32 spoke 3x front and rear and was built by someone who knows their stuff and I am not a light rider either and not a light packer and they have been fine no issues at all. For reference the rear is a Paul Cassette Disc RHUB (which is an I9 free hub) laced to Sapim Strong spokes and Brass SecureLock nipples to a WTB Frequency CX rim (the front is the same but SON dyno hub and was built by someone else but I do have the original wheel which was Paul FHUB). If I were to redo it I would probably go with same spokes and nipples a Velocity rim (probably Aileron since it is disc) or maybe Astral and White industries XMR or CLD hubs. Nothing against the current set up but the Paul hubs are no longer made (I9 stopped making a compatible freehub and Paul hasn't released their own yet) and while I haven't had issues with the WTB rims at all (but was unhappy when they got rid of the ChrisCross rims, I do love supporting American made products and would love a nice polished and anodized rim for a little extra bling.

70sSanO

If I had a 1990 Miyata touring bike and wanted to run it on gravel, I'd probably look at some Velocity rims, maybe Dyad in 32 or 36 hole. Hubs are a bit different since you are running 130mm, which is a road OLD. You want an 8-10 speed freehub and that is not generally found in an XT 130mm OLD hub. In all honesty, 90's road and mountain hubs had so many interchangeable parts; ran the same ball bearings and in some cases the same seals, that I would look for good road hubs. Shimano 105 or Ultegra would be fine.

This is not necessarily my first choice of hubs, but they are not bad, and it is the direction I would be leaning if I were going to build wheels...

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...oducts_id=5893

The overall weight is not bad either.

John

FTB

I am finding myself agreeing with VB more and more.
I really rate white industries. Their hubs are flawless as long as you don't gorilla-fist their 2mm adjustment collar. They are so much better in person which is hard to believe.
I think I9 is over-rated although they are still very nice hubs. I would not pay more for them since nothing about them is better than WI (unless mtb more engagement). WI's steel (rear) axle and titanium fh body, individual pawls etc just make them so durable.
CK is $$$ and use proprietary tools and bearings which also have short service intervals but if you really do prefer "servicable", then buy shimano hubs and save yourself hundreds of dollars.. Just my opinion.


rims
you say you will be running 35-38mm tires please correct me if thats wrong. Any internal rim width 19+ would be best but over 25mm won't be necessary so narrow down a few. Will you need a braking surface?

Jeff Neese

I have four wheelsets built on Sun CR18 rims. They're strong and stay true, and they're affordable. Whatever rims you choose, I would highly recommend something with eyelets.

shelbyfv

These would be nice for a retro looking bike. They also offer a complete

wheelset.

Geepig

As my teachers were want to write on my school reports - could try harder

In my racing days it was not uncommon to break all kinds of things, and most of my brazing experience is from repairing things rather than making them, for example. I have no idea how other people break things, but most of mine have been from going above and beyond the reasonable...

davidad

With 130 spacing go with a shimano ultegra or 105 hub, 36 double butted spokes and a Mavic A319 rim.

Russ Roth

I'm still on the fence about WI, so far they don't feel any faster than the XT, prettier and a touch noisier. I like that they're cartridge bearing and that is upgradable but that hasn't fully sold me on them. I'm running them on the cross but with no cross season there hasn't been the milage I'd like. Wife has them on her touring bike but the purchase was based on reviews and an inability to get purple kings.
A set of kings with stainless driveshell would be bulletproof from my experience, would not do an aluminum one though, too soft which WI does have the advantage on.
But, my current touring build is XT with dyad and I can't find a complaint. The wife's was XT with Sun inferno 21 rims which was only replaced for prettier looks.

70sSanO

Over the years I have found most cup/cone hubs to be pretty bombproof in non-extreme rain/snow conditions.

Biggest issue with cup/cone are poor adjustment, especially from the factory, followed by zero, not even a thought of, maintenance by users.

John

cyccommute 

I have several sets of Whites and I find them to be about the smoothest hub I’ve ever used. They are also some of the least expensive of the boutique hubs around. Comparable rear hubs run $100 to $150 less than King or Phil Wood. Fronts are only about $90 less.

cyccommute 

As most people, you are making the mistake of assuming the rim has much to do with the strength of a wheel. The rim’s contribution to wheel strength is as a convenient place to attach spokes. The spoke does all the heavy lifting and gets none of the credit. For your weight and application, I would suggest using DT Swiss Alpine III, Sapim Strong, or Pillar PSR TB2018. All of them have triple butts with heavier heads (2.2 to 2.3mm). The heavier head significantly increases the spoke strength resulting in a stronger wheel. Using triple butted spokes is the equivalent of adding 4 to 10 spokes to the wheel. This article explains the benefits nicely.

For road riding, I use Velocity Dyad rims, although I’d have no problem using a lighter A23 rim. This bike did 1500 miles of loaded touring around Lake Erie including about 700 miles of dirt roads and tow paths. But more importantly, I use DT Swiss Alpine III spokes. These are 36 hole Phil Wood hubs. I had zero spoke issues even with my weight (a bit north of yours) and 40 to 50 lb of gear.





For more than dirt roads, I bikepack on this bike. I use Mavic XC717 rims which are amoung the lightest rims around. Again, I use DT Swiss Alpine III. For these wheels, I’m using Paul FHub and RHub with 32 spokes.





Even when the road is more rock than gravel, the spokes hold up very well.

Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr

Even when the road is less road and more cow path, the spokes are up to a whole lot of bashing even with a load.



Which hubs is even less of an issue. Get something that rolls smoothly. A cup and cone hub will work but they are boring and require more maintenance over their lives than cartridge bearings do. If I’m going to build wheels, I don’t usually build with Shimano hubs. I can buy a Shimano hubbed wheel off the shelf for less than I can build it. If I’m building something, I want to make it special. White Industries, Phil Wood, I9, Chris King, etc are all good hubs. I really like Whites for their finish, smooth bearings, and, perhaps, their lower cost. I have a whole bunch of wheels with White Industries hubs and have been very satisfied with them.

ironhanglider

If you are going to be riding amongst unexploded ordinance, you'd best be using bombproof wheels...

(I'll see myself out)

Cheers,

Cameron

cyccommute 

They are

Moisture

This is great information. Sounds like a wheel id enjoy riding.

i still think that most of us will get plenty performance from regular wheels if you know how to tension the spokes correctly.

I've mostly ridden on 36 spoke wheels but have also tried out a 32 spoke alex rim and some really nice Bontrager Race rims. No major differences really, but the good quality wheel with less spokes will feel lighter and respond a bit faster. Its about the tradeoff. For heavy duty type riding or touring you'll want the more even distribution of spoke count with a 36h wheel.

cbrstar

There's different rim technology's and you get what you pay for so spending a little more is a good idea. Things to look for in a touring rim is if it is double wall? As cheap rims are usually single wall and not as strong. A good rim the joint is welded and a cheapo is pinned. Is the wheel 3x or 2x in the lacing of the spokes again 3x is gonna be a little less flexy. As a someone who's broken tons of BMX axles you can get a hardened cro-mo solid axels and I would put at least one on the rear. They cost more but they are way more durable and resistant to bending.

cyccommute 

Did I say anywhere that my wheels don’t have properly tensioned spokes or that you can use less tension if you use stronger spokes? People always seem to assume that I don’t know how to build wheels. I’ve been building...and riding...my own wheels since 1986. I’ve built a few hundred of them by now. I started building with DT Alpine III sometime before 2000. The first wheel I built with the Alpines lasted 10 years and only died because I loaned the bike to someone who managed to shift into the spokes and replaced it without telling me. That’s 10 years without broken spokes on a mountain bike that is ridden hard.

I built lots and lots of wheels prior to that with double butted spokes using the methods and techniques as I use now. I broke lots of the prior to using the Alpines and many, many fewer after I started using them. Same builds, different results. I wonder what the difference is?

32 vs 36 hole makes little difference in weight. It makes some sense with regard to strength, especially if straight gauge or double butted spokes are used.

I suggest Alpines (or other triple butted spokes) for heavy riders because they work. They are relatively cheap insurance for very little weight penalty. Broken spokes is a very common question here on the Forums and a very common repair at my local co-op. Everyone wants strong wheels but they start by trying to fix something that isn’t the problem...i.e. the rim. Why not fix the ”problem”?