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New bikes, and the creeping cost of entry to our favorite sport

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New bikes, and the creeping cost of entry to our favorite sport

Old 04-01-21, 12:32 PM
  #26  
MRT2
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I never stated that this is about what you want to pay for a bike. Read my posts.

This line sure makes it seem like you are indeed blaming it on greedy capitalists: "$700 for a bike with Tourney level components is a rip off. Even Tourney at a $500 price point isn't great, IMO. I am sorry but Specialized is just being greedy."

I never claimed that markets are perfect, only that the new bike market is "pretty competitive." (Read my posts.) I also noted that YOU noted that there are supply disruptions right now - disruptions which raise costs for the entire supply chain and hence drive up prices. (Read you own post.)
It isn't what I want to pay. I do not buy entry level bikes. It is what I see as good value and not good value for newcomers to our sport. And in my mind, a $700 bike with Tourney level components is not good value.
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Old 04-01-21, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Shoot, I initially wondered if the two OP's are the same person. The two threads are eerily similar.
The OP in that thread had an idea for Walmart bikes selling for $200 to $300. I don't think that is realistic, but I do think it is realistic to get better value for the $500 to $700 the bike shop brands are charging for entry level bikes.
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Old 04-01-21, 12:34 PM
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In 1978 I went to the local Schwinn dealer to get my third new bike. The beautifully attractive bike then that screamed ride me was the Schwinn Paramount in the road race configuration and 2x with 5 or 6 speeds on the rear. I think it was $800 maybe $900 bucks. That price made me scream, so I got the much less expensive Varsity for less than 1/4 of the Paramount's price but twice the weight.

900 dollars then will be about $3700 maybe $3900 today. About what I just paid for my last bike. And Paramount's weren't the most expensive bike at the time either.

There are decent bikes for much less, but since we've ridden better we don't like to think of those bikes as acceptable for anyone since they aren't good enough for us.
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Old 04-01-21, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
In 1978 I went to the local Schwinn dealer to get my third new bike. The beautifully attractive bike then that screamed ride me was the Schwinn Paramount in the road race configuration and 2x with 5 or 6 speeds on the rear. I think it was $800 maybe $900 bucks. That price made me scream, so I got the much less expensive Varsity for less than 1/4 of the Paramount's price but twice the weight.

900 dollars then will be about $3700 maybe $3900 today. About what I just paid for my last bike. And Paramount's weren't the most expensive bike at the time either.

There are decent bikes for much less, but since we've ridden better we don't like to think of those bikes as acceptable for anyone since they aren't good enough for us.
This is all true. But again, I am not comparing what you get now with what you got in 1978, inflation adjusted, but rather, what you get now compared to what you got 5 years ago. Inflation has not been much of a factor, income is not a factor, but something is going on.
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Old 04-01-21, 12:46 PM
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COVID. Interruptions to supply chains. All sorts of things that will have all of us seeing sky rocketing inflation soon. It was going to happen again sometime. We got to pay for the sins of the last 20 or so years.
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Old 04-01-21, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2
I am not. I surveyed all the major brands, and a lot of the minor ones.
I still remain unconvinced. If you could provide links to the models, past and present, including spec lists and MSRP, and then show your math for inflation, it would go a long way.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 04-01-21, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2
The OP in that thread had an idea for Walmart bikes selling for $200 to $300. I don't think that is realistic, but I do think it is realistic to get better value for the $500 to $700 the bike shop brands are charging for entry level bikes.
You and the other OP are similar in that you both think a certain class of bikes should cost less because you think they should -- circular reasoning, without any apparent understanding of the actual market in question.

You have fun; I'm signing off. I'm learning to be leery of posters who start with "Anybody else have thoughts on this?" Because it seems that some of them are only looking for one type of response.
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Old 04-01-21, 12:59 PM
  #33  
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Just for the heck of it, I went to compare prices on road bikes from two of the "big three" bike mfrs. Now, my bike has rim brakes, while the ones I compared have discs. Otherwise, spec for spec, they are similar (other than disc brakes). The price dif from what my LeMond cost was 70 to 100% higher. Looked up the inflation rate--from when I bought mine to now--around 30%. Something is a little (lot) off here! Always felt like my bike was a good deal-feel even better about it now!
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Old 04-01-21, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I still remain unconvinced. If you could provide links to the models, past and present, including spec lists and MSRP, and then show your math for inflation, it would go a long way.

Thanks in advance.
2015 Giant Escape 2 ($460) https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/escape-2-2015
2021 Giant Escape 2 ($680) https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/escape-2-disc-2021

2015 Trek FX 7.2 ($490) https://archive.trekbikes.com/us/en/...7_2_fx/details
2021 Trek FX 2 ($699) https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...-disc/p/27991/

2015 Specialized Sirrus ($500) https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/valu...oduct/3056010/
2021 Specialized Sirrus 2.0 ($750) https://www.specialized.com/us/en/si...ext=90920-8000

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

You are welcome.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:02 PM
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I started riding 10-speed bikes sometime in the early 1970s. I was a high school freshman in 1974. If I were to buy a Fuji S-10S entry level Japanese bike in that era, it would have been ~$165 or so. The equivalent (but lesser) Motobecane or Peugeot would have been $140 or so. I don't remember what I paid for my Mercier, but I'm thinking $135-ish. But that was a while ago.

Fast forward to 2021. The cumulative inflation rate between 1974 and today is 464%. So, my $135 Mercier (with its steel crank and steel rims) would cost ~$760. Looking on bikes direct, you can get an aluminum bike with STIs, semi-aero rims and a carbon fork for $700.




8-speed Claris group, FSA crank, cartridge bb, dual pivot brakes. I'd say things are better today than they were when I started out.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:10 PM
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I'm not seeing your inflation math. I see a link, but not your math. Don't get lazy.

Also, I want to see links to 2020 models so that we can remove increases due to pandemic supply chain issues and really concentrate on Big Bike corporate evil.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I'm not seeing your inflation math. I see a link, but not your math. Don't get lazy.

Also, I want to see links to 2020 models so that we can remove increases due to pandemic supply chain issues and really concentrate on Big Bike corporate evil.

Thanks in advance.
You can do your own inflation math. And if you want to look up the links to 2020 models, you can do that yourself, too. (and you can stop moving the goal posts). It really doesn't matter what the prices were in 2020, since we are now living in the post COVID world. If the price increases are solely due to supply chain issues, well, I guess we can look forward to the big bike companies lowering their prices next year.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz
I started riding 10-speed bikes sometime in the early 1970s. I was a high school freshman in 1974. If I were to buy a Fuji S-10S entry level Japanese bike in that era, it would have been ~$165 or so. The equivalent (but lesser) Motobecane or Peugeot would have been $140 or so. I don't remember what I paid for my Mercier, but I'm thinking $135-ish. But that was a while ago.

Fast forward to 2021. The cumulative inflation rate between 1974 and today is 464%. So, my $135 Mercier (with its steel crank and steel rims) would cost ~$760. Looking on bikes direct, you can get an aluminum bike with STIs, semi-aero rims and a carbon fork for $700.




8-speed Claris group, FSA crank, cartridge bb, dual pivot brakes. I'd say things are better today than they were when I started out.
Interestingly, I just looked up the original MSRP on my first road bike - a 1994 Cannondale R500. Similar to the Bikes Direct above, it was Aluminum frame, triple chainrings, 7 speeds at the back. Downtube shifters, though. $770. (I paid $600 for it, because it was last year's model)
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Old 04-01-21, 01:21 PM
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Didn't look at BikesDirect--looks like their prices are much closer to what my LeMond cost, for a comparably equipped bike. Other than having a LBS, assembly, and warranty (didn't search their site for warranty info), makes ya wonder how LBS's compete. Still like my LeMond, plan on having it for as long as I ride.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2
You can do your own inflation math. And if you want to look up the links to 2020 models, you can do that yourself, too. (and you can stop moving the goal posts). It really doesn't matter what the prices were in 2020, since we are now living in the post COVID world. If the price increases are solely due to supply chain issues, well, I guess we can look forward to the big bike companies lowering their prices next year.
Kinda depends on demand, I'd think. If we find ourselves in a bike glut next year as the Pandemic wains, then, yeah.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:27 PM
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What you are not taking in account is not only do disc brakes cost more, but you also need a stronger wheel to handle the breaking torque. On the Trek FX they went from a Bontrager single wall AT-750, to a Bontrager Connection double wall. There's also a difference in the frame quality as the older one is "Alpha Silver" and the new one is "Alpha Gold". The price difference is very minimal with these big upgrades.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by freeranger
Didn't look at BikesDirect--looks like their prices are much closer to what my LeMond cost, for a comparably equipped bike. Other than having a LBS, assembly, and warranty (didn't search their site for warranty info), makes ya wonder how LBS's compete. Still like my LeMond, plan on having it for as long as I ride.
Because most people don't have the skills, or the inclination to assemble their own bikes, or to handle warranty issues.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2
You can do your own inflation math. And if you want to look up the links to 2020 models, you can do that yourself, too. (and you can stop moving the goal posts). It really doesn't matter what the prices were in 2020, since we are now living in the post COVID world. If the price increases are solely due to supply chain issues, well, I guess we can look forward to the big bike companies lowering their prices next year.
This is the funniest thing (and wrong-est thing) you've written yet!

Are you living under a rock?
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Old 04-01-21, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2
This is a variation on a theme I see from time to time. I am not really concerned for myself, as I have a nice bike that I have invested in new wheels, and have otherwise maintained over the years.
I have seen a creep up in new bike prices in recent years. Where as if you asked me 5 or 6 years ago, what it the minimum price to pay for a good basic bike for al around use, such as neighborhood ride, MUPs, light off road, or even group or charity rides of 50 miles or less, I would have said, $400 to $500. Today, I would say $700 to $800. And I don't really like telling people this. Often a beginner will be looking for not one, but maybe two bikes. One for themselves, and one for a spouse. So where as in the past, I would have said, you can probably get started for $1,000 or less, now that price is almost $2,000, for two people.

So what happened? Is it tariffs? Corporate greed? Demand for bikes boosted by the pandemic while supply chain got interrupted last year?
Hard to say.
One thing I have noticed with the big brands is pushing disc brakes, which is pushing up the price of the entry level, while leaving the budget bikes without disc brakes also seriously under spec'd. For example, the Trek FX1 retails for $500, but has a 7 speed freewheel. Not so long ago, you could get an FX 7.2 with 8 speed freehub for around $500, and Giant made an 8 speed Escape 2 for $460, and you could even get a carbon fork 9 speed Escape 1 for $650.
Today, if you want an 8 speed Trek or Giant (or any other major brand), you have to get one with disc brakes, and it will cost you $700. If you want carbon fork, or 9 speed, you are talking about $800 to $900.

I find this frustrating not so much for a bike enthusiast like myself, but for those looking to get into the sport. The entry level price seems high for what you are getting, especially compared to just a few years ago. It would literally cost the major brands a couple of bucks per unit to offer a $500 bike with an 8 speed freehub and cassette over the barely better than department store bike 7 speed freewheel. And, for $700, I hate to seem like a Luddite, but better wheels, and drivetrain seem like a better thing to offer the customer at that price point than disc brakes.

So to put a finer point on this, I think $500 is a reasonable entry point into the sport for a good, basic bike. But is it too much to ask that the manufacturers at least equip said bike with a freehub, and decent drivetrain components?
Anybody else have thoughts on this?
Pretty silly rant considering that bikes are in demand and sales are booming.
Regardless the reason for the boom.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by cbrstar
What you are not taking in account is not only do disc brakes cost more, but you also need a stronger wheel to handle the breaking torque. On the Trek FX they went from a Bontrager single wall AT-750, to a Bontrager Connection double wall. There's also a difference in the frame quality as the older one is "Alpha Silver" and the new one is "Alpha Gold". The price difference is very minimal with these big upgrades.
Part of my point though is that disc brakes at this price point did raise the prices for maybe not much of a performance increase.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Shoot, I initially wondered if the two OP's are the same person. The two threads are eerily similar.
Not really though as the dude in the other thread is simply a verbose SJW
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Old 04-01-21, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
Pretty silly rant considering that bikes are in demand and sales are booming.
Regardless the reason for the boom.
Bikes are largely sold out or backordered right now. That is true. Perhaps pandemic related. Perhaps supply related.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2
Bikes are largely sold out or backordered right now. That is true. Perhaps pandemic related. Perhaps supply related.
I believe year over year sales are very strong so it makes no difference.
Btw, cost of entry is quite often not calculated by new bike prices as a large proportion of new riders get a hand me down or buy used.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:40 PM
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I don't care which way this goes, i am getting my pitchforks and torches ready. just point me in the right direction.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MRT2
Part of my point though is that disc brakes at this price point did raise the prices for maybe not much of a performance increase.
If we put the $490 (2015) into the US Inflation Calculator it comes to $543.75. If the the new bike is $699 the difference is only $155.25 which I don't think you could buy the brakes and all the other upgrades for. And the thing is people want disk brakes so it's a selling feature.
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