Winter Conditioning: How best to maximise Weight and Hill training into program (?)
08-05-15, 04:38 AM
#76
Senior Member
Aaaannnndd, specificity. Train like you race, the best training for x is x, etc. You wanna get faster at riding up hills, ride up hills.
08-05-15, 05:13 AM
#77
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Oh. I thought thats what the "training forum" was all about - asking "why", sharing knowledge and such.
I am really rather new to forums, so perhaps I have missed something .. apols; I thought that was the point
Seems a shame: I am rather enjoying engaging with you chaps. Really.
Just seeking to understand ..
I am really rather new to forums, so perhaps I have missed something .. apols; I thought that was the point
Seems a shame: I am rather enjoying engaging with you chaps. Really.
Just seeking to understand ..
Man, we've all been there. We were all neophytes to the sport. We all had a million questions. The answers were all generally the same.
The thing is, *nobody* knows what the best training techniques will be for you. Not even your new coach. Those will only reveal themselves with trial and error. Yes, you can make some educated guesses and eliminate a lot of not-great ideas. But, it will simply come down to you trying something (for a long time) and doing an honest evaluation. This usually happens on an annual timeline as most programs are setup on annual schedules. Some sports have bi-annual schedules like track and field that have indoor and outdoor seasons (did you read that Bompa book yet? He covers that.).
The only thing that hill repeats train that are directly related to track racing is your aerobic system. Not so much your muscles. If you are going to train on the bike, why not train your aerobic systems AND your muscles in a way that is directly similar to the sport? That's like driving to the gym to use a rowing machine to work your aerobic system in order to train for a half-marathon! Why not just run across town?
08-05-15, 05:18 AM
#78
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Also understand that adaptations take a LOOOOOONG time to occur.
It's a fun journey, though. Don't get hung up on "doing the absolute best thing" and worrying if you aren't doing it. Remember, we (at least 99.9999% of us) aren't getting paid for this. Keep it fun and engaging.
It's a fun journey, though. Don't get hung up on "doing the absolute best thing" and worrying if you aren't doing it. Remember, we (at least 99.9999% of us) aren't getting paid for this. Keep it fun and engaging.
08-05-15, 06:23 AM
#79
Senior Member
DHRB45 - you want info - took me 5 minutes of googlefu to find a relevant journal article.
BIOMECHANICS AND ENERGETICS OF UPHILL CYCLING: A REVIEW
Fonda, B. and Šarabon, N.: BIOMECHANICS AND ENERGETICS OF UPHILL ... Kinesiology 44(2012) 1:5-17
https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/124396
Conclusion - Seated uphill cycling does not appear to be a factor that influences cycling efficiency, pedal forces and joint dynamics, while the neuromuscular patterns are altered.
Another article (non journal) discussing the differences - Climbing vs time-trialling: same effort, different power output | CyclingTips
08-05-15, 03:57 PM
#80
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Also understand that adaptations take a LOOOOOONG time to occur.
It's a fun journey, though. Don't get hung up on "doing the absolute best thing" and worrying if you aren't doing it. Remember, we (at least 99.9999% of us) aren't getting paid for this. Keep it fun and engaging.
It's a fun journey, though. Don't get hung up on "doing the absolute best thing" and worrying if you aren't doing it. Remember, we (at least 99.9999% of us) aren't getting paid for this. Keep it fun and engaging.
08-05-15, 04:01 PM
#81
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
You ask a question or make an assertion that you want us to evaluate. We tell you that it's not the best way to do something with a few reasons why. You aren't satisfied, so you want more explanation until you are satisfied.
Man, we've all been there. We were all neophytes to the sport. We all had a million questions. The answers were all generally the same.
The thing is, *nobody* knows what the best training techniques will be for you. Not even your new coach. Those will only reveal themselves with trial and error. Yes, you can make some educated guesses and eliminate a lot of not-great ideas. But, it will simply come down to you trying something (for a long time) and doing an honest evaluation. This usually happens on an annual timeline as most programs are setup on annual schedules. Some sports have bi-annual schedules like track and field that have indoor and outdoor seasons (did you read that Bompa book yet? He covers that.).
The only thing that hill repeats train that are directly related to track racing is your aerobic system. Not so much your muscles. If you are going to train on the bike, why not train your aerobic systems AND your muscles in a way that is directly similar to the sport? That's like driving to the gym to use a rowing machine to work your aerobic system in order to train for a half-marathon! Why not just run across town?
Man, we've all been there. We were all neophytes to the sport. We all had a million questions. The answers were all generally the same.
The thing is, *nobody* knows what the best training techniques will be for you. Not even your new coach. Those will only reveal themselves with trial and error. Yes, you can make some educated guesses and eliminate a lot of not-great ideas. But, it will simply come down to you trying something (for a long time) and doing an honest evaluation. This usually happens on an annual timeline as most programs are setup on annual schedules. Some sports have bi-annual schedules like track and field that have indoor and outdoor seasons (did you read that Bompa book yet? He covers that.).
The only thing that hill repeats train that are directly related to track racing is your aerobic system. Not so much your muscles. If you are going to train on the bike, why not train your aerobic systems AND your muscles in a way that is directly similar to the sport? That's like driving to the gym to use a rowing machine to work your aerobic system in order to train for a half-marathon! Why not just run across town?
08-06-15, 05:37 AM
#83
Senior Member
Climbing is good for enduro trackies, less so for sprinters - if you're gonna train for either though, learn to love the wind trainer.
08-08-15, 05:01 AM
#84
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There are some real nuggets in this thread - which I have reread & reread. It has been a real privilege to have been able to tap into your experience and insight. A big "Thank you".
Oh, and I have signed up with a coach (see, I have listened / acted
And, who knows; with the World Masters Games here in New Zealand February 2017, I just may see some of you over here (on the start line). If any of you are thinking of coming, dont hesitate to make contact with me directly; I would be delighted to assist you make you trip / holiday a success.
https://www.newzealand.com/int/
https://www.worldmastersgames2017.co.nz/
https://www.avantidrome.co.nz/about-us
Cheers: DHRB. Till the next thread
Oh, and I have signed up with a coach (see, I have listened / acted
And, who knows; with the World Masters Games here in New Zealand February 2017, I just may see some of you over here (on the start line). If any of you are thinking of coming, dont hesitate to make contact with me directly; I would be delighted to assist you make you trip / holiday a success.
https://www.newzealand.com/int/
https://www.worldmastersgames2017.co.nz/
https://www.avantidrome.co.nz/about-us
Cheers: DHRB. Till the next thread
Last edited by DHRB45; 08-08-15 at 08:21 PM.
08-09-15, 02:16 AM
#85
Senior Member
More likely to consider flying to LA for the World Masters Track Championships in 2017 even though this is just across the ditch... But if I change my mind I'll be in touch. 
08-14-15, 11:07 PM
#86
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
From a 50+ racer who has won at the national and state level, and coached another trackie to an age group WR, I'll comment less on specifics, and more on some generalities:
-How you sequence the workouts is as important as the workouts themselves. Trashing yourself in the gym one day then trying to do 1-2min intervals the next ain't going to work.
-Yes on periodization. But you need to go 2 on and 1 rest week vs. the "standard" 3:1. I know of zero folks over 50 who don't break down on the latter.
-You need to be scrupulous about recovery. Feeding, stretching, rolling are hugely neglected when most folks set up their "program". At the sub 40 y/o level you can get away with this to a degree. At 56...can't overstate the importance.
-How you sequence the workouts is as important as the workouts themselves. Trashing yourself in the gym one day then trying to do 1-2min intervals the next ain't going to work.
-Yes on periodization. But you need to go 2 on and 1 rest week vs. the "standard" 3:1. I know of zero folks over 50 who don't break down on the latter.
-You need to be scrupulous about recovery. Feeding, stretching, rolling are hugely neglected when most folks set up their "program". At the sub 40 y/o level you can get away with this to a degree. At 56...can't overstate the importance.
I understand your comment around "the need to be scrupulous about recovery" and such. I learnt some hard lessons - two years running - and had to take several weeks off both times, for physio and motivational reasons, because I pushed, pushed - progressively increasing volumes And intensities for around 5 week blocks without recovery weeks. I paid for it. Wont do that again ! May I pick up on one theme in particular here? Sequencing the workouts: Is there an "Optimum" sequence - in terms of order days of hard weights sessions / Intense interval sessions / long endurance rides? By that, I mean, an order which optimises the different types recovery needed for each workout type (for us mid 50s
Would you mind shedding some more light on your experiences pse ? Cheers
Last edited by DHRB45; 08-15-15 at 12:23 AM. Reason: clarity
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
kayp
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area
12
07-07-14 11:44 AM
gtrob
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area
10
03-19-14 12:48 PM
TrackMonkey7
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area
6
01-30-13 11:52 PM
jcharles00
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area
5
08-15-11 08:55 PM
