Equinox

This is a general driving behavior that's also an issue around bicyclists. There is an attitude among motorists that their right to travel unimpeded is absolute. If something obstructs their travel, they will go around that obstruction no matter what. Envision a road with one lane in either direction. Envision a delivery truck partially blocking one of those lanes. The vehicle approaching that obstruction from behind will invariably cross the centerline into oncoming traffic to go around that obstacle. It will force oncoming traffic on to the shoulder to avoid a head on collision. That driver would never consider the option of slowing or stopping to allow oncoming traffic to clear, and then pass safely.
Motorists will do this around bicyclists. This is documented on You Tube Videos. The first one I saw was an elderly motorist right hooking cyclists. When confronted, the motorist asks, "What was I supposed to do?" When the cyclists told him to wait for them to clear, he was dumbfounded. It wasn't even an option for him.
Another involve a cop car, and it might have involved contact between the cop car and the bike. The bikes were riding legally to the extent I could tell. The cop apparently tried to squeeze by ( he was not on a call). The cop asked the bikes, "What was I supposed to do?" Again, the cyclists told him to wait until it was possible to pass safely. The cop could not conceive of that possibility as an option. Plus, like many LEOs unfortunately, he knew next to nothing about the laws governing the operation of bicycles on the road. He was trying to find some way to cite the bicyclists of course.
This is a common dangerous behaviour among many motorists.

howsteepisit

Yep, I see it often. The real question is how to make people understand they may have to wait and take their turn.

Equinox

Good question. It's like something happens to us when we get behind the wheel. It's a different mind set. I'm sure traing would help, to an extent. Interacting with cyclists is a bit nuanced. But if there is a vehicle blocking you, and there is oncoming traffic, you CANNOT cross the center line, no matter what. You Cannot expect oncoming traffic to move to their shoulder.

BobbyG

Bicyclists have the same problem. How many times have you seen cyclists ride as if the rules of the road don't apply to them?...blowing through stop signs and red lights? Salmoning? Treating pedestrians like traffic cones rather than people.

It is not a "motorist" problem, it is a human problem.

CliffordK

It happens everywhere. I'm usually riding far enough to the right that two cars can safely pass. But I have certainly seen my share of unsafe passes, especially pulling all the way into the oncoming lane with a blind corner ahead.

Of course, I've also seen bad "passes" on bike paths with some cyclists zipping around pedestrians without concern for other trail users.

What I'd like to see is more emphasis on "Vulnerable Road Users" (pedestrians, bikes, horses, ag equipment, etc) in all driver's education, and driver's exams. Certain safety questions on the written exam should be deemed of high enough of importance that missing them would mean an immediate fail.

howsteepisit

I am curious, do people do things like dangerous passes because they do not know better or because they ae otherwise focused on "getting there" that their minds just turn off courteous and safe behavior? If it's the latter, all the training and testing in the world would not help. It becomes an issue of immediate priorities.

Equinox

Please focus on the topic at hand. I understand how your self-loathung makes it irresistible for you to not automaticallly put down cyclists even when it has nothing to do with the topic i raised. You can start your own thread about the nonsense you believe.
This topic is about bad motorist behavior around law abiding cyclists. Believe it or not, they exist.

CliffordK

I think it is a mix.

Perhaps they judge safety differently. There have been several newbie cyclists posting videos here of cars passing 3 or 4 feet away saying that the close pass makes them uncomfortable, while those that have been on the road for decades just yawn.

On a recent cycling trip, two lane road with no shoulders, dropoffs, and quite a few ruts in the road surface. I was hitting 40+ MPH downhills loaded with cargo. And, there were several cars that just had to pass uphill bicycles encroaching on my lane. I didn't feel comfortable giving them 6 feet out of my lane. Ok, I could have slowed down a bit, I wasn't the one doing the unsafe passes.

Anyway, one can prioritize not wanting to ever take the foot off of the gas.

But training will help with better evaluating situations and choosing safe driving methods. Also understanding that bicycles speeds aren't always constant, nor is their need for a piece of asphalt constant. Perhaps also learning how a twig or a shard of glass can be a road hazard.

CliffordK

True,
But the same motivation for car drivers exists with cyclists blowing past pedestrians on a bike trail, forcing everyone else around them to stop and give them room.

Road Courtesy?

howsteepisit

It may well be, and I think its probably the case, is that our training methods are pretty non-effective and need to be totally rethought with a goal of finding ways to keep motorists and cyclists in the moment and focused on the task at hand.

BobbyG

Sorry. I did not intend to be the obstacle in the path of your rant.

Jim from Boston

Not to be an obstacle to the OP, and without further comment, but could you please separate your rant into paragraphs of a few lines each for clarity.

Carry on.

Equinox

LOL. OK. If you just wrote TLDR, that would be fine, too. Cheers!

Equinox

No problem, whatsoever.

I-Like-To-Bike

The OP is not a long rant, but is still nothing but a rant about them mean ole motorists, without any safety or advocacy content.

Jim from Boston

Actually I did go back and read it, and I do tend to agree with:As a cyclist, I've heard a lot of the motorists complaints, and I tend to particularly sympathsize with those who live in area cycling meccas with narrow roads, and have to deal with cyclists and pacelines riding two or more abreast.

Equinox

Au contraire. I'm advocating for motorists to adhere to the fundamental concept of keeping right, passing safely, and yielding properly especially to vulnerable users.
You and I both know that the supposed inconveniences encountered by motorists delay them on the order of seconds.
I'm advocating for motorists to realistically assess their situation. "Do I have to pass at this exact moment, and whom am I placing in harms way by not waiting a second?"

reppans

I see this behavior all the time and actually find it preferable when the traffic gets heavy. While there is never enough room for 2 within a single lane, there is often enough room for 3 across the whole road/two lanes.

In heavy traffic, what happens is that the first car makes a safe pass when there's a gap in opposing traffic by going over the double yellow by a foot or two. Then the second, third, etc... whole line of cars behind jump into the 'wake' created by the first car, and they have effectively established a new temporary double yellow that follows the cyclist like moving bubble. Cyclist gets safe clearance from passing cars, and motorists get to maintain their pace.

The alternative is for each car to slow to the cyclist's pace, and wait for a safe gap in the opposing traffic, one-by-one. With reasonably heavy traffic in both directions, this means the traffic bottleneck behind the cyclist will build up faster than it can be relieved... and the cyclist starts to create real road rage - and higher the road speed differential, the worse it gets. Create enough road rage and it WILL lead to close/unsafe 'punish-passing', foul language, thrown debris, etc.

YMMV of course.

genec

Cyclists do not "create" road rage... rage is in the mind of the rager... in this case, the motorist that becomes upset because they are not getting what they feel is their "due."

reppans

Whatever process or name you want to call it is fine by me - I'm just summarizing the result.

Moe Zhoost

Yep, what you say happens, but thankfully there are many drivers who will be patient. Patience is not newsy and videos of people being patient don't end up on YouTube.

FBOATSB

Well, so far, I agree with all posts so far in this thread I avoid road riding generally, and only cross roads carefully. What I want to add is that in this country a sixteen year old child receives their first drivers license after some very rudimentary training and for the rest of their lives only have to renew it (on line now) every five or more years. The only way to have driving privileges revoked are to be so old and blind that you cannot maneuver a car without hitting things or people.

My only solution to this would be to require, at every renewal interval, an up to date driving school with written and practical tests in order to renew with testing proctored by volunteer advocates and not tired old BMV bureaucrats.

OldTryGuy

The ABOVE SCENARIO is exactly what caused my 2011 crash resulting in a broken neck and clavicle along with compressed C5, C6, C7 resulting in a long thoracic nerve injury that to this day is still unresolved and causing major issues. The only difference was that it was a mail truck stopped with driver placing mail in mail box on the opposite side of a 2 lane 45mph road and a SUV driver not wanting to wait to safely allow 3 pace line riding cyclists alone in our lane heading towards them to pass.

Today we were a group of 2 riding in marked bicycle lane finishing up our 39 mile ride only 1.5 miles from LBS on a 45mph-4 lane with median road when a SUV passes us clearing by 2 feet, no car to drivers left and THEN 10' AFTER PASSING crosses white line and drives 2' INTO THE BIKE LANE. IDIOT!!!!

genec

Well the difference is that you are implying that cyclists are the cause of the road rage, but the reality is, as the OP implies, the problem is with motorists and their "inconceivable option."

There is a vast difference between the two meanings.

To begin with, what the motorist demands is a clear open road, all to themselves... problem is, every motorist wants that.

Equinox

You can't resist putting down cyclists. Is it a form of self aggrandizement rooted in envy for you? Pace lines cause insignificant delays and never place driver's lives at risk in those situations. You do realize that cars kill and maim many cyclists because of negligent or discourteous operation, right? Remember that story about the cyclist who killed the truck driver by slamming into him from behind while on his cell phone? Me neither.

In so called cycling meccas, I find there is greater cooperation between drivers and cyclists. The local drivers generally know when the bikes are around and where they're going, and the bikes are on the narrow roads to avoid traffic as much as possible while enjoying a legally protected activity.

Drivers are inconvenienced and endangered by other motorists than they ever will be by cyclists.

I just want things in their proper perspective.