Retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos
#5876
Senior Member
This is a '74 Harry Quinn Tourist frameset, built with a 1x10 drivetrain and single brifter. The frame was setup without any front der/shifter/cable guides/bosses/etc, maybe originally for 5spd? So I figured I'd go 1x up front. More pix and info on the "Show Your Vintage Touring Bike" thread.
Why the really long straddle cable?
__________________
Bikes on Flickr
I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com
Bikes on Flickr
I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com
#5877
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,744
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 525 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3230 Post(s)
Liked 3,868 Times
in
1,439 Posts
If you want silver wheels, it's hard to beet these from VeloMine: Velocity A23 Silver Formula Hubs For Campagnolo
I've got a set of these on my Pinarello Gran Turismo and have been very happy with them.
__________________
My Bikes
My Bikes
#5878
Senior Member
Thanks!
[rant]The long front straddle cable is a consequence of setting up the cantis with the apparently mistaken folk wisdom that the straddle cable angle should be at a 90-deg angle to the canti/pivot angle. This requires a very long straddle cable with vintage wide cantis like these. In this scheme, the rear straddle cable should also be equally long, but it usually can't be because the yoke would hit the cable stop bz-on.
I re-read Sheldon Brown's canti page, and a couple of others, before replying. I learned, as usual, that the stuff they taught me 30yrs ago was mostly wrong (an ounce of weight on the wheels is worth two ounces on the frame, wide tires are slow, stiff frames are faster and more efficient than flexy ones, straddle cables should be at a 90-deg angle to the canti pivot angle, and prolly a lot more stuff). The 90-deg straddle cable angle rule doesn't really fit anything, and you should be setting the straddle cable length wherever needed for the mechanical advantage desired. Which depends on the calipers, the levers, the shoes, shoe position and atmospheric pressure. Just kidding about the atmospheric pressure...
It also reminded me that I'm not an engineer, and I'm still a math-phobe, and once they trot out pivot angles and mechanical advantage and sine and cosine and tangents, my brain short-circuits and my eyes glaze over.
It also reminded me that, while I love how much tire clearance I get from cantis, I f'in hate setting them up, and absolutely love sidepull & dual-pivot calipers to death.[/rant]
[rant]The long front straddle cable is a consequence of setting up the cantis with the apparently mistaken folk wisdom that the straddle cable angle should be at a 90-deg angle to the canti/pivot angle. This requires a very long straddle cable with vintage wide cantis like these. In this scheme, the rear straddle cable should also be equally long, but it usually can't be because the yoke would hit the cable stop bz-on.
I re-read Sheldon Brown's canti page, and a couple of others, before replying. I learned, as usual, that the stuff they taught me 30yrs ago was mostly wrong (an ounce of weight on the wheels is worth two ounces on the frame, wide tires are slow, stiff frames are faster and more efficient than flexy ones, straddle cables should be at a 90-deg angle to the canti pivot angle, and prolly a lot more stuff). The 90-deg straddle cable angle rule doesn't really fit anything, and you should be setting the straddle cable length wherever needed for the mechanical advantage desired. Which depends on the calipers, the levers, the shoes, shoe position and atmospheric pressure. Just kidding about the atmospheric pressure...
It also reminded me that I'm not an engineer, and I'm still a math-phobe, and once they trot out pivot angles and mechanical advantage and sine and cosine and tangents, my brain short-circuits and my eyes glaze over.
It also reminded me that, while I love how much tire clearance I get from cantis, I f'in hate setting them up, and absolutely love sidepull & dual-pivot calipers to death.[/rant]
__________________
Fuggedaboutit!
Fuggedaboutit!
#5879
Unimatrix Zero
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 908
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Anyway, I don't know about degrees but I do agree that setting up cantis involves a lot more variables than other brakes and can be quite frustrating! I do it all the time and practice does help but some designs are particularly frustrating.
Lastly, that bike is beyond beautiful. I love all the component choices you made and would change nothing except the seatpost (Paul or Suntour XC )
#5880
Senior Member
I think I was looking at 90-deg to the arm, i/o 90-deg to the canti pivot line (line intersecting pivot and cable anchor point). So I was wrong on both counts. I'll have to swap to a longer brake cable and mess with it all over again, once I feel like it. Sheesh.
I'm glad you like the bike/setup. I'm very boring/OCD when it comes to seatposts, with 90%+ of my bikes using Thomson Elite posts (a couple of Masterpieces on weight weenie builds). There was something about me mucking up a staid, understated '70s British touring frame with carbon brifters and a wide/narrow 1x chainring that made me want to use the Miche Supertype post here.
I've never used a Paul post, though they look swell. They don't come very short, though, so there'd be an awful lot of Paul post shoved into the seat tube. I used a 330mm Thomson Elite while waiting on the Miche Supertype, same deal there.
Despite being an ex-Suntour guy, and generally liking Spb stuff, I've always had issues with not being able to get a good saddle angle with the Spb Pro seatpost. Usually my saddle nose is at least couple of degrees too high even with the front bolt tightened down to the max. Especially with relaxed 72/73-deg seat tube angles. Once I get to 74- or 75-deg seat tubes it kinda works. I could probably file off some metal underneath the bottom cradle.
The Quinn also needs a 27.0mm seatpost, so that does limit choice a bit as well.
I'm glad you like the bike/setup. I'm very boring/OCD when it comes to seatposts, with 90%+ of my bikes using Thomson Elite posts (a couple of Masterpieces on weight weenie builds). There was something about me mucking up a staid, understated '70s British touring frame with carbon brifters and a wide/narrow 1x chainring that made me want to use the Miche Supertype post here.
I've never used a Paul post, though they look swell. They don't come very short, though, so there'd be an awful lot of Paul post shoved into the seat tube. I used a 330mm Thomson Elite while waiting on the Miche Supertype, same deal there.
Despite being an ex-Suntour guy, and generally liking Spb stuff, I've always had issues with not being able to get a good saddle angle with the Spb Pro seatpost. Usually my saddle nose is at least couple of degrees too high even with the front bolt tightened down to the max. Especially with relaxed 72/73-deg seat tube angles. Once I get to 74- or 75-deg seat tubes it kinda works. I could probably file off some metal underneath the bottom cradle.
The Quinn also needs a 27.0mm seatpost, so that does limit choice a bit as well.
I always thought that the folk wisdom (which never made sense to me) was that it was the straddle cable itself that should be at 90 degrees? Which in your case would mean lowering the straddle hanger quite a bit.
Anyway, I don't know about degrees but I do agree that setting up cantis involves a lot more variables than other brakes and can be quite frustrating! I do it all the time and practice does help but some designs are particularly frustrating.
Lastly, that bike is beyond beautiful. I love all the component choices you made and would change nothing except the seatpost (Paul or Suntour XC )
Anyway, I don't know about degrees but I do agree that setting up cantis involves a lot more variables than other brakes and can be quite frustrating! I do it all the time and practice does help but some designs are particularly frustrating.
Lastly, that bike is beyond beautiful. I love all the component choices you made and would change nothing except the seatpost (Paul or Suntour XC )
__________________
Fuggedaboutit!
Fuggedaboutit!
#5881
Senior Member
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
__________________
Bikes on Flickr
I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com
Bikes on Flickr
I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com
#5882
Senior Member
Nice machine! Yeah, I gotta drop that yoke. Just found the Paul Moon Unit I wanted for it, so probably a good time to mess around with it.
35s on it now, which is what I had at hand when building it up.
How'd you know the "C" was for Clarence?
-PCB
35s on it now, which is what I had at hand when building it up.
How'd you know the "C" was for Clarence?
-PCB
Here are the same brakes (which are great; good taste ) I installed on a 62cm Trek. And I agree with whatwolf; cantis work great, but they are of no advantage in setup that's for sure. Did i miss what tires you're running? 38-622? That thing has some clearance, Clarence. Nice.
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
__________________
Fuggedaboutit!
Fuggedaboutit!
#5883
The Drive Side is Within
Nice application, too.
__________________
The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley
The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley
#5886
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Houston, TX/Austin, TX
Posts: 79
Bikes: 1997 Romic Neo-Retro, 2015 Ridley Ignite 27.5, Mercier Nano
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Finished everything today. This is my first bike with STI's and I'm in love already.
In the future I'll probably buy a 1" threadless carbon fork to match all the black. The current fork isn't the original Miele fork, and it's quite heavy and shows signs of pitting. A new stem is also in the future, awaiting proper fit.
Components:
Fork: Chrome, 1” Threadless
Brakes: Tektro R340 Caliper brakes
Headset: Cane Creek S40 1”
Stem: Giant 90mm -15*, 31.8
Drivetrain:
Cassette: Shimano Ultegra 6700 11-25
Crankset: Kuota KO3 Carbon 53/39 (Similar to SRAM Force)
Bottom Bracket: SRAM GXP italian threaded
Front Derailleur: Shimano 105 (5700)
Rear Derailleur: Shimano 105 (5700)
Brifters: Shimano 105 5700 STI 10-Speed
Chain: Shimano HG73
Seatpost: Raceface Atlas, 27.2
Saddle: Forte SLX Pro
Pedals: Shimano SPD-M540
Bars: 31.8, 42mm wide, no brand
Bar Tape: Deda Mistral, Black
Wheels: Alex Race28 with Scott Components hubs
Tires: Bontrager RaceLite 700x23
Any suggestions for a good deal on 1" carbon forks (threadless) would be much appreciated. I know Nashbar has one for $105.
In the future I'll probably buy a 1" threadless carbon fork to match all the black. The current fork isn't the original Miele fork, and it's quite heavy and shows signs of pitting. A new stem is also in the future, awaiting proper fit.
Components:
Fork: Chrome, 1” Threadless
Brakes: Tektro R340 Caliper brakes
Headset: Cane Creek S40 1”
Stem: Giant 90mm -15*, 31.8
Drivetrain:
Cassette: Shimano Ultegra 6700 11-25
Crankset: Kuota KO3 Carbon 53/39 (Similar to SRAM Force)
Bottom Bracket: SRAM GXP italian threaded
Front Derailleur: Shimano 105 (5700)
Rear Derailleur: Shimano 105 (5700)
Brifters: Shimano 105 5700 STI 10-Speed
Chain: Shimano HG73
Seatpost: Raceface Atlas, 27.2
Saddle: Forte SLX Pro
Pedals: Shimano SPD-M540
Bars: 31.8, 42mm wide, no brand
Bar Tape: Deda Mistral, Black
Wheels: Alex Race28 with Scott Components hubs
Tires: Bontrager RaceLite 700x23
Any suggestions for a good deal on 1" carbon forks (threadless) would be much appreciated. I know Nashbar has one for $105.
#5887
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Western MI
Posts: 2,770
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 656 Post(s)
Liked 469 Times
in
302 Posts
^Very nice job with the Miele. Setup nice and just looks fast. I like it
Did you get a chance to weight it? Having just done a Reynolds 531 frame in similar style, I'll guess it's right around 20lbs.
Did you get a chance to weight it? Having just done a Reynolds 531 frame in similar style, I'll guess it's right around 20lbs.
#5889
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Houston, TX/Austin, TX
Posts: 79
Bikes: 1997 Romic Neo-Retro, 2015 Ridley Ignite 27.5, Mercier Nano
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thank you! I haven't weighed it yet but it feels like it's in the 20 lb range, maybe a little bit more. The wheelset isn't anything particularly lightweight. It rides very nicely though.
#5890
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,332
Bikes: 1989 Team Miyata, 1989 Miyata 1400, 1989 Miyata 1400, 1986 Miyata 610, 2007 Specialized Stumpjumper Hardtail
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Two of a kind.
#5891
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bronx, NYC
Posts: 1,885
Bikes: '19 Fuji Gran Fondo 1.5, '72 Peugeot PX10, '71ish Gitane Super Corsa, '78 Fuji Newest, '89 Fuji Ace, '94 Cannondale R600, early '70s LeJeune Pro project
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times
in
101 Posts
@liquefied Gorgeous! Now which one do you prefer?
#5892
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Houston, TX/Austin, TX
Posts: 79
Bikes: 1997 Romic Neo-Retro, 2015 Ridley Ignite 27.5, Mercier Nano
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#5893
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Houston, TX/Austin, TX
Posts: 79
Bikes: 1997 Romic Neo-Retro, 2015 Ridley Ignite 27.5, Mercier Nano
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#5894
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,332
Bikes: 1989 Team Miyata, 1989 Miyata 1400, 1989 Miyata 1400, 1986 Miyata 610, 2007 Specialized Stumpjumper Hardtail
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
@liquefied Gorgeous! Now which one do you prefer?
#5898
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,332
Bikes: 1989 Team Miyata, 1989 Miyata 1400, 1989 Miyata 1400, 1986 Miyata 610, 2007 Specialized Stumpjumper Hardtail
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I kept the original parts around too just in case I feel like going back. I have 100% of the original parts for one (including original tires) and about 90% of parts for the other.
#5900
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Somerset England
Posts: 5
Bikes: Look 586 rsp, 90's Falcon, 95 Bianchi TSX Reparto Corse
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts