Federal Panel Seeks Mandatory Helmet Laws
#126
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Since you have resurrected the Dude's previous strange comments on this thread, I thought it time to correct another of the Dude's misstatements directed at me that has been repeated by another poster on this thread. The Dude and livedarklions raised a fabricated strawman that I claimed on another thread to never see a Specialized brand bicycles "in the Land of RAGBRAI" and dissed my powers of observation (and implied I am a liar). I made no such claim in any post on this threads or on any otherthread.
For clarification, on another thread I asked about where was the location of a poster who claimed that a specific high priced model of Specialized - The S-Works was "everywhere" and the Dude has proceeded to go into a misquoting tizzy about a claim from me about never seeing Specialized brand bicycles and therefore don't know what I am posting about, with livedarklions piling on as is his wont. See Original post
For clarification, on another thread I asked about where was the location of a poster who claimed that a specific high priced model of Specialized - The S-Works was "everywhere" and the Dude has proceeded to go into a misquoting tizzy about a claim from me about never seeing Specialized brand bicycles and therefore don't know what I am posting about, with livedarklions piling on as is his wont. See Original post
Do me a favor, please leave me out of this sleeping dog resurrection. I really don't want to have to discuss your wonts.
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#127
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I'll cast my vote firmly in the camp of individual helmet use is fine but oppose mandatory helmet laws (MHL).
MHL laws have several common uses:
If the NTSA or other bodies were (a) interested in bicyclist safety or (b) thoughts helmets were useful
(a) They'd insist on traffic signals that respond to bicycles (getting better) or even penalizing sober motorists that hit bicyclists riding legally (getting worse) before recommending states require helmets
(b) Motorists suffer far more head injuries than bicyclists - from a public health perspective, it would be far more effective to require helmets for automobile drivers, not just motorcyclists.
I'm not convinced they'll take this seriously enough to withhold significant funds from states that don't impose MHL, but I can't see any states requiring MHL if the federal government does push for them.
MHL laws have several common uses:
- Motorist liability protection (most frequent). Any bicyclist without a helmet must be reckless, so motorists shouldn't be held liable if they injure them (head or other injury) or damage their bicycles
- Reasons for police to cite otherwise legal bicyclists. Seems to be most popular in Australia for cyclists in general; also used in the US for any bicyclists riding where they shouldn't: i.e. on public roads, with bonus points for bicyclists riding in minority neighborhoods (or wealthy areas)
- Generates revenue for helmet manufacturers, especially when they recommend replacing helmets that won't biodegrade or decay in landfills with new helmets.
If the NTSA or other bodies were (a) interested in bicyclist safety or (b) thoughts helmets were useful
(a) They'd insist on traffic signals that respond to bicycles (getting better) or even penalizing sober motorists that hit bicyclists riding legally (getting worse) before recommending states require helmets
(b) Motorists suffer far more head injuries than bicyclists - from a public health perspective, it would be far more effective to require helmets for automobile drivers, not just motorcyclists.
I'm not convinced they'll take this seriously enough to withhold significant funds from states that don't impose MHL, but I can't see any states requiring MHL if the federal government does push for them.
#128
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Lawyers might "insist" anything they like. Any evidence that this moth-eaten cliché is ever effective in a real live court?
#131
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Pretty sure it's also decomposed by this point.
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I think they should recommend people wear helmets, but not enforce it.
There is so much real crime that the police do not have time to deal with it all. If time is taken up with cyclists not wearing helmets, even less time is available to deal with real crime.
There is so much real crime that the police do not have time to deal with it all. If time is taken up with cyclists not wearing helmets, even less time is available to deal with real crime.
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#133
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I do want police to regulate traffic, but to focus on behaviors that endanger other people. Catching people without helmets is going to be too easy, and they'll end up spending too much time on it as a result. It's low-hanging fruit.
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As with most things unelected back water b'crats that probably know very little about the subject should never be allowed to dictate to people what they should do. For every regulation put in place some one loses their freedom.
How many on that committee actually bike on a regular basis?
How many on that committee actually bike on a regular basis?
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Or definitely the answers to questions they already asked.
-mr. bill
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As with most things unelected back water b'crats that probably know very little about the subject should never be allowed to dictate to people what they should do. For every regulation put in place some one loses their freedom.
How many on that committee actually bike on a regular basis?
How many on that committee actually bike on a regular basis?
Asked/asserted and answered on all counts.
#137
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In one respect I oppose mandatory helmet laws because they violate personal freedom, but then again I kinda hope this goes through so we can exercise malicious compliance. When every cyclist is wearing helmets but the death toll doesn't decrease maybe people will finally address the root cause of the problem, which is two-ton metal cages.
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In one respect I oppose mandatory helmet laws because they violate personal freedom, but then again I kinda hope this goes through so we can exercise malicious compliance. When every cyclist is wearing helmets but the death toll doesn't decrease maybe people will finally address the root cause of the problem, which is two-ton metal cages.
Malicious compliance? That's a silly term. What's next-- civil obedience?
Just tell everyone you're wearing your helmet ironically.
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I just spent the better part of a half an hour I will never get back speed reading this thread so I admit I could have missed the thread that mentioned the revenue potential of a law requiring helmet use for adult cyclists. In my city an adult can be (but rarely is, unless ...) stopped if their bicycle does not have: bell, reflectors, 200' lights. Fines start at $200. If you were stopped because a taillight was out on your car the fine would be $65. A cyclist without a helmet sticks out like a sore thumb. There aren't many of them, but were it illegal I can well imagine the fine for not wearing one would be >$300 for a first occurrence, ~$1000 for a second, and that is far more likely the genesis of any proposed legislation vs overwhelming concern for a very small percent of a very small percent of road users. When in doubt, always follow the money.
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...but were it illegal I can well imagine the fine for not wearing one would be >$300 for a first occurrence, ~$1000 for a second, and that is far more likely the genesis of any proposed legislation vs overwhelming concern for a very small percent of a very small percent of road users. When in doubt, always follow the money.
One method is hold your breath, make a wish, count to three.
Another is close your eyes, tap your heels together three times, and think to yourself....
Seattle’s fine for example is $30.00, which is waived if you purchase a helmet. Greedy b’crats?
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 02-10-20 at 08:50 AM.
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I bet this "panel" discussed the revenue it would produce. I also bet the never discussed personal freedom. B'crats always want more money.
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Are you seriously going to bump this thread once a month with this stupidity?
Please explain how the NTSB could possibly realize a penny if states and localities collected fines. You are completely ignorant of who this panel is and what they do. So better yet, please just stop posting pointless garbage.
And no, you can actually read what they considered, and the notion of revenues wasn't even the slightest factor in the discussion.
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And for every law some dictatorial B'crat dreams up someone loses a little more freedom. Even tho I ride a trike most of the time, I still always wear a helmet. And I do think smart people do. But I still dont like government butting into such things. Besides cyclist that dont wear helmets are usually in excellent health and make good organ donors!!!
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On most forums like this personal attacks are frowned upon. In a short note please tell us all why your opinion on this subject is far superior to mine or others.
Helmet laws are one of the regulations we simply dont need. They will never never be applied evenly. Do you really think the the police should cuff little Susie and drag her off to jail because she dont have a helmet? In today society the police have far more serious work to do than see to it every cyclist has a helmet!!!!!!!!!!!
Further-----------------almost all laws and regulations come with penalties. And it makes no difference if you like it or not B'crats ALWAYS are looking for any revenue stream they can get their grubby hands on.
Helmet laws are one of the regulations we simply dont need. They will never never be applied evenly. Do you really think the the police should cuff little Susie and drag her off to jail because she dont have a helmet? In today society the police have far more serious work to do than see to it every cyclist has a helmet!!!!!!!!!!!
Further-----------------almost all laws and regulations come with penalties. And it makes no difference if you like it or not B'crats ALWAYS are looking for any revenue stream they can get their grubby hands on.
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As with most things unelected back water b'crats that probably know very little about the subject should never be allowed to dictate to people what they should do. For every regulation put in place some one loses their freedom.
How many on that committee actually bike on a regular basis?
How many on that committee actually bike on a regular basis?
And for every law some dictatorial B'crat dreams up someone loses a little more freedom. Even tho I ride a trike most of the time, I still always wear a helmet. And I do think smart people do. But I still dont like government butting into such things. Besides cyclist that dont wear helmets are usually in excellent health and make good organ donors!!!
You've literally posted the exact same thing over and over, and when someone refutes every bit of nonsense you post, you just ignore it and repeat the same empty nonsense again.
There's legitimate things to debate about mandatory helmet laws, and frankly, I've said repeatedly that I don't agree with them. But you just keep posting the same tired "bureaucrats this" and "bureaucrats that" and attacking their motivations for insane reasons that have nothing to do with the realities--the NTSB has no interest in collecting fines, fer cryin' out loud.
And I haven't attacked you personally. I've pointed out that your posts are repetitive and contain no real content. When you post the same thing over and over, that's usually considered spamming or trolling.
You obviously bumped this thread to troll a fight. Problem is you aren't posting anything worth discussing.
Maybe you need a catchy slogan-- how about "You can pry my concussed brain from my cold dead hands" or "Keep your laws off my skull fracture"?
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